Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles?

Ekka · 6th December 2007, 03:24 AM

The Australian Arbor Age October - November 2007 edition page 61.

I have scanned the page and blown up the pic and added a red line as to where the correct cut should be made.

If you look at the pic carefully you'll notice that all his lines with the green arrow heads pointing to the BBR are out by the same amount as his white cut line. Looks like the whole overlay of his "paint shop" is out to the left by the same amount and if it were all moved right by the few inches then it would line up, except that his cut needs to be a tad more acute (closer to trunk at bottom).

That union he has photographed is called a collarless union. The way you cut them is mirror the BBR angle to the trunk on the other side of the BBR. I put a red line in the blown up pic to show.

Not a good typo, could mean stub cuts and no understanding of the 3 cuts I speak of often.

Pruning cuts - collar, collarless and co-dominant

JohN Dee · 9th December 2007, 05:22 PM

Indeed a big typo... By a very infuential magazine :\.

But hay, who prunes camphors? They're classified as weeds down here

Knock em' out gooooonskeeees!

treeseer · 16th December 2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

The way you cut them is mirror the BBR angle to the trunk on the other side of the BBR.

This may be a general rule of eyeball, but not always true. The key criterion is: Avoid wounding stem tissue. Humphries hints at this by cutting outside the trees' compression and tension wood.

O and the perfect cut is between yours and Humphries'. He leaves too much branch tissue, and you take too much stem tissue.

Eric, if you know so much, why don't YOU write an article?

a_lopa · 16th December 2007, 06:41 PM

Maybe i could write an article

Your right about the cutting Guy..

treeseer · 16th December 2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_lopa

Maybe i could write an article

Well heck I mean you are an astronaut already, so author is not so much of a leap!

O and I love camphor trees; they grow well in Florida usa and anything but weeds in that climate. Fun to prune--easy targets and so sweet smelling.

Ekka · 16th December 2007, 08:40 PM

They're a weed in NSW, free for all removals!

But they do smell nice.

Lopa's writing the article on how to catch snapper in Port Phillip Bay.

Sean Freeman · 16th December 2007, 09:08 PM

Its funny how moderate differences in climate produce very different reactions from trees....Camphors don't grow well up here at all, in fact there is only one that I know of in one of the Bot Gdns, yet down with Eric they are nuts amongst the riparian strips.
On my last visit to GC I was absolutely amazed to see the volume of Erythrina crista-galli growing again on the edge of the watercourses. We just don't get it up here only Erythrina vespertilio and a very pretty tree it is too.
I'll try to get some shots of the masses of the Indian Coral next Jan when i'm down there again, quite amazing how much of it there is...not a bad little tree either btw...shame noone can see a use for the timber, I wonder what its like for fire wood or turning?

On the Cassian photo error, Im pretty confident that it is as you originally suggested Eric a photo editing error, I know very well that Cassian is passionate about his work and about keeping up the highest standards, he is also a real stickler for adhering to Shigo's recommendations for locations of cuts.

Ekka · 16th December 2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

he is also a real stickler for adhering to Shigo's recommendations for locations of cuts.

He's not like GuyM then?

treeseer · 17th December 2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

adhering to Shigo's recommendations for locations of cuts.

Sean as you know Shigo gave themes, not rules or specific recommendations. "Every branch will be different." AS, p. 425, ANTB.

Eric, if you are so sure that your red line is korrect, we'll no doubt be seeing your Letter to the Editor. Get it in soon--they are putting the Jan-Feb issue together right now.

Stats show that letters are the most-read part of the mag, so your keen analysis and your flush cut should get a full review. Here's a letter to our Tree Care Industry magazine, which elicited an admission from the editor and the author, and two subsequent letters that agreed with the other points.

Get the ball rolling, mate! Just be careful that it does not roll over you.

Dear Editor,

When I read in H. Dennis P. Ryan III, Ph.D.?s article on cabling (July 2007 issue) http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_July_07.pdf that ?you shall use a lag instead of an eyebolt in a decayed limb?, I reached for my ANSI Support Standards. I?m no expert on the subject, but common sense told me the opposite was true. Sure enough, ANSI said ?Lag-threaded hardware shall only be installed in sound wood.? This is confirmed in the BMP?s, which the article listed as a reference. Dennis seems to have it backwards, or there was a typo or an editing error. TCIA typically does an excellent job upholding ANSI, so it was surprising to see this slip.

The caption to the first picture, of an ash tree with included bark, states that ??without support it will fail.? It?s important to look at tree risk objectively, without exaggerating our knowledge of what will happen. It was also disappointing to read the author?s opinions that synthetic ropes are ?ugly?, while ?a steel cabling system ?is not visible to most people?.

Steel cables are easy to see, and ugly is in the eye of the beholder. It?s not clear whether the author?s aesthetic bias indicates a deeper prejudice against dynamic cabling. In any case, what place does this degree of subjectivity have in a technical article? I hope that when you print an article on dynamic systems it will have fewer errors, and more objectivity.

Sean Freeman · 17th December 2007, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Sean as you know Shigo gave themes, not rules or specific recommendations. "Every branch will be different." AS, p. 425, ANTB

Yes, well put Guy, and a timely reminder of why Shigo's work will outlive many of his contemporaries.....and as you know I tend to paraphrase too easily and somewhat clumsily!!

Ekka · 17th December 2007, 12:09 PM

Guy, you may want to read this thread.

Pruning cuts - collar, collarless and co-dominant

After years of pruning cuts and watching the results I can confidently say that I have seen more stubs with poor results than flush cuts.

I can also say that on the trees I have cut here there's been near perfect results with even callus wood growth and little die back of stubs or aggressive callus wood on "stem tissue" from flush cuts.

The 2 most difficult cuts for arbos to do is the collarless union and codominant. The difficulty lies in knowing where to cut and recognizing the difference of the unions.

treestyle · 18th December 2007, 05:18 AM

on the 5th and 6th i attended Cassian's course on "tree culture". It touched on many elements of caring for trees. for me it was very good, it was inspiring.

so at the end of of the course i go up and have a yarn with Cassian, i tell him about a great local tree forum. he was pleased to hear about it and promptly got his notebook and wrote the address down.....www.treeworld.info. He was keen to check it out.

Any way i get home and log on. what do i see? this thread. ahhhh, that's real professional! i thought we were trying to encourage all sorts of imput into this site. seems its a one man show though.

perhaps the post could've read "arb age printing error"?.

Cassian is a good bloke, i think he could teach ALL of atleast one thing new about trees.

oh well, that's all i got to say.

Ekka · 18th December 2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treestyle

Any way i get home and log on. what do i see? this thread. ahhhh, that's real professional! i thought we were trying to encourage all sorts of imput into this site. seems its a one man show though.

No, what you see is a question asked.

What's not professional is some-one not clarifying the problem, we are still making assumptions that it is a printing error, what assumptions are you making?

treeseer · 18th December 2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

what assumptions are you making?

Well Eric, one assumption I'm inclined to make is that the question was posed more in the spirit of lobbing hand grenades as an agent provocateur than building consensus.

This can be a really good thread if it focuses on tree biology. I hope any visitor here will look at the excellent content Eric has posted here and not be provoked by one thread title. Maybe Cassian will be kind enough to join in here. I think he made an excellent point about analyzing reaction wood before removing it.

Eric your point about not leaving any branch tissue may be borne out in the attached pic. This branch was torn off in a 1996 hurricane. I pruned it after an ice storm in 2002. Now there is excellent closure except where I left that little stubbish tip you see in the middle.

Shigo was right when he pointed out we need diferent cutting tools to reach into areas like that. I'm wondering how to fit a hammer and chisel into my scabbard.

9th December 2007, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 729	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Indeed a big typo... By a very infuential magazine :\. But hay, who prunes camphors? They're classified as weeds down here Knock em' out gooooonskeeees! __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

16th December 2007, 06:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 865	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Maybe i could write an article Your right about the cutting Guy.. __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

16th December 2007, 08:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? They're a weed in NSW, free for all removals! But they do smell nice. Lopa's writing the article on how to catch snapper in Port Phillip Bay. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

16th December 2007, 09:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,649	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Its funny how moderate differences in climate produce very different reactions from trees....Camphors don't grow well up here at all, in fact there is only one that I know of in one of the Bot Gdns, yet down with Eric they are nuts amongst the riparian strips. On my last visit to GC I was absolutely amazed to see the volume of Erythrina crista-galli growing again on the edge of the watercourses. We just don't get it up here only Erythrina vespertilio and a very pretty tree it is too. I'll try to get some shots of the masses of the Indian Coral next Jan when i'm down there again, quite amazing how much of it there is...not a bad little tree either btw...shame noone can see a use for the timber, I wonder what its like for fire wood or turning? On the Cassian photo error, Im pretty confident that it is as you originally suggested Eric a photo editing error, I know very well that Cassian is passionate about his work and about keeping up the highest standards, he is also a real stickler for adhering to Shigo's recommendations for locations of cuts. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

17th December 2007, 12:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Guy, you may want to read this thread. Pruning cuts - collar, collarless and co-dominant After years of pruning cuts and watching the results I can confidently say that I have seen more stubs with poor results than flush cuts. I can also say that on the trees I have cut here there's been near perfect results with even callus wood growth and little die back of stubs or aggressive callus wood on "stem tissue" from flush cuts. The 2 most difficult cuts for arbos to do is the collarless union and codominant. The difficulty lies in knowing where to cut and recognizing the difference of the unions. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th December 2007, 05:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 128	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? on the 5th and 6th i attended Cassian's course on "tree culture". It touched on many elements of caring for trees. for me it was very good, it was inspiring. so at the end of of the course i go up and have a yarn with Cassian, i tell him about a great local tree forum. he was pleased to hear about it and promptly got his notebook and wrote the address down.....www.treeworld.info. He was keen to check it out. Any way i get home and log on. what do i see? this thread. ahhhh, that's real professional! i thought we were trying to encourage all sorts of imput into this site. seems its a one man show though. perhaps the post could've read "arb age printing error"?. Cassian is a good bloke, i think he could teach ALL of atleast one thing new about trees. oh well, that's all i got to say.