Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles?

dguntertrees · 26th January 2008, 03:43 AM

" The Brush and the Sword are fundamentally connected"

Where is this better illustrated than in the form of a good climbing Arborist?

As for crossing over between Utility tree work and Tree Care....

Surely they should be the same thing?

I know that when I worked in utility tree work, introducing Shigo et al to the boys was one of the best things that could have happened to them. They actually felt that they were contributing to retaining trees, rather than simply devouring them. There are heaps of good people out there, some simply need to be released from the corporate mentality that they have become institutionalized into, others are already working from the inside to try to bring about changes...its all about bringing those like minded people together.

And thats why Ekka's done such a good thing here, as has Cassian with his Tree Culture Course.

As have you all by contributing to these discussions.

GROUP HUG EVERYONE?

Dave

Therrin · 26th January 2008, 10:00 AM

Cassian,

Thanks for the great response! I can understand exactly where you're coming from. We have something called the Score program here, which is mostly retired and some young businessmen who volunteer their time to do seminars and meet with people about the running of a business. It's an awesome resource, but I can also see your reasoning about working with the Utility.

For the other stuff, whoa...that's pretty deep. It's zen-tree stuff. Zen-tree group hug stuff... hmm.

treeseer · 26th January 2008, 01:36 PM

restoration of storm-damaged trees--i just got the goahead to prune the sprouts on a tree that was headed back after the 2001 ice storm. Like the one in the picture but WAY more crown loss. Working on the clock so I will have time to take core samples, pics, measurements, you name it.

Gonna be fun, and hopefully enough data to sway the aussie skeptic.

newguy18 · 26th January 2008, 02:27 PM

ice storm.where in the se are you?

treeseer · 26th January 2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

ice storm.where in the se are you?

Central NC, per the attached.

newguy18 · 26th January 2008, 07:02 PM

good read Guy.

Cassian Humphreys · 26th January 2008, 10:59 PM

Maybe well need a new thread.......

AAA Correctively pruned Stub Cut.....doc

Regards to all Cass........

Ekka · 26th January 2008, 11:46 PM

Well that's about as clear cut as you'll ever get, perhaps have Kurt re-run that pic.

It does look like a collarless union but no before shot so cant say 100%.

I pilfered it and embedded it. By collarless union it means the angle of the cut is a mirror to the angle of the BBR to the stem.

treeseer · 27th January 2008, 10:50 AM

attached

Ekka · 27th January 2008, 01:30 PM

Well done Guy, it's about where I put the red line in the first post but was waiting for others. I did say it had to be more acute at the bottom but that pic was tiny.

There's an ever so slight swelling there if one looks closely.

I have noticed many trees or branch unions have that, a type of blend of collar and collarless, doesn't have the usual pronounced bulging collar but when closely inspected there's a definate swelling there. A good eye spots it.

Sean Freeman · 27th January 2008, 01:54 PM

That is a very good point well made Guy, with such codominance it is always better (if you can convince the client) to reduce rather than remove in terms of inducing the most effective defence physically and chemically with the remaining tissues. Just cutting the limb off is not going to get that longer term result.
Clearly what would be great if unrealistic would be some long term dissections of various codominants with different approaches taken, ideally same species age etc..

treeseer · 27th January 2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Clearly what would be great if unrealistic would be some long term dissections of various codominants with different approaches taken, ideally same species age etc..

Might not be that unrealistic; lots of pruning studies are underway. i'll be seeing Ed Gilman wednesday; we'll see if that type of thing might fit on his team's plate.

Ozinus suggested I post some pics of Acer rubrum; not sure these are the kind of "inverted collar" he talked about. They are typical codom unions on that species--no collar, best reduced, but at this young age the wounds should close w little problem (except crown asymmetry).

I heard a talk last week on pruning, given by a fellow from Ohio State U. He first strongly recommended Gilman's book; shortly after he railed against reducing branches, saying it was always a bad idea. I asked him about subordination and he looked confused--it was apparent that he had not read the book he so strongly spoke of.

So Sean it seems that the clients are not the only ones we need to educate...

ozinus · 27th January 2008, 02:37 PM

It would be nice to see a tool or some other way of identifying scale on the Cinnamomum because this cut may not be as precious as we are describing.

Sean Freeman · 27th January 2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

I asked him about subordination and he looked confused--it was apparent that he had not read the book he so strongly spoke of.

Don't you hate it when some clever bugger points out that you didn't actually read what you said you did

Nice one Guy that put a smile on my face, hey it would be great if Ed Gilman (or his team) were to take on that idea.....keep me in the loop...maybe some Oz data could be of use

Cassian Humphreys · 27th January 2008, 08:09 PM

Hmmmm the thin white line, the thin red line or the thin purple line.

Hi gents I went back to the tree and had another look, then I checked pics attached, and guess what I came to - Logic and Instinct.

Logically I reckon based on the photograph of the final cut that the bottom side of my cut is out by 1 mm.

Based on the red/purple lines I see the end product as a flush cut.
(In truth if the cut had been any deeper it would have been larger)

However the tree spoke (instinct heard) the cut is fine, I would eat of that cut, I would make love on that cut.

Photographs are flat, reality is curved...

Regardless it is been fun.

Regards Cassian...

AAA Correctively pruned Stub Cut + Origional pic.pdf

26th January 2008, 03:43 AM	#51 (permalink)
dguntertrees Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mudgeeraba, SE Queensland Posts: 127	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? " The Brush and the Sword are fundamentally connected" Where is this better illustrated than in the form of a good climbing Arborist? As for crossing over between Utility tree work and Tree Care.... Surely they should be the same thing? I know that when I worked in utility tree work, introducing Shigo et al to the boys was one of the best things that could have happened to them. They actually felt that they were contributing to retaining trees, rather than simply devouring them. There are heaps of good people out there, some simply need to be released from the corporate mentality that they have become institutionalized into, others are already working from the inside to try to bring about changes...its all about bringing those like minded people together. And thats why Ekka's done such a good thing here, as has Cassian with his Tree Culture Course. As have you all by contributing to these discussions. GROUP HUG EVERYONE? Dave

26th January 2008, 10:00 AM	#52 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Cassian, Thanks for the great response! I can understand exactly where you're coming from. We have something called the Score program here, which is mostly retired and some young businessmen who volunteer their time to do seminars and meet with people about the running of a business. It's an awesome resource, but I can also see your reasoning about working with the Utility. For the other stuff, whoa...that's pretty deep. It's zen-tree stuff. Zen-tree group hug stuff... hmm. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

26th January 2008, 02:27 PM	#54 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,682	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? ice storm.where in the se are you? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

26th January 2008, 07:02 PM	#56 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,682	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? good read Guy. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

26th January 2008, 10:59 PM	#57 (permalink)
Cassian Humphreys Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 61	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Maybe well need a new thread....... AAA Correctively pruned Stub Cut.....doc Regards to all Cass........

27th January 2008, 01:30 PM	#60 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? Well done Guy, it's about where I put the red line in the first post but was waiting for others. I did say it had to be more acute at the bottom but that pic was tiny. There's an ever so slight swelling there if one looks closely. I have noticed many trees or branch unions have that, a type of blend of collar and collarless, doesn't have the usual pronounced bulging collar but when closely inspected there's a definate swelling there. A good eye spots it. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

27th January 2008, 01:54 PM	#61 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? That is a very good point well made Guy, with such codominance it is always better (if you can convince the client) to reduce rather than remove in terms of inducing the most effective defence physically and chemically with the remaining tissues. Just cutting the limb off is not going to get that longer term result. Clearly what would be great if unrealistic would be some long term dissections of various codominants with different approaches taken, ideally same species age etc.. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

27th January 2008, 02:37 PM	#63 (permalink)
ozinus Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 59	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles? It would be nice to see a tool or some other way of identifying scale on the Cinnamomum because this cut may not be as precious as we are describing.

27th January 2008, 08:09 PM	#65 (permalink)
Cassian Humphreys Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 61	Re: Cassian Humphreys leaving stubs in Arbor Age Articles - Hmmmm the thin white line, the thin red line or the thin purple line. Hi gents I went back to the tree and had another look, then I checked pics attached, and guess what I came to - Logic and Instinct. Logically I reckon based on the photograph of the final cut that the bottom side of my cut is out by 1 mm. Based on the red/purple lines I see the end product as a flush cut. (In truth if the cut had been any deeper it would have been larger) However the tree spoke (instinct heard) the cut is fine, I would eat of that cut, I would make love on that cut. Photographs are flat, reality is curved... Regardless it is been fun. Regards Cassian... AAA Correctively pruned Stub Cut + Origional pic.pdf __________________ Cut through life's drama - With Instinct as your steel and Logic as your temper...