Cannon's dead tree challenge

Cannon

Hi, here are a few photos from the third floor window. WHAT A YA THINK?

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Quintrex

I think that tree's fallen on hard times. Wouldn't be too keen to climb the bastard!

Eric Frei

Looks like plenty of it is falling off too, I'd be getting a tower if I couldn't fell it.

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Cannon

Hello, I plan on climbing to the branches set up a zip line, sling up each individual branch then cut 2' sections of the trunk all the way down. How would you do it?
EKKA (tower)? Thanks Cannon

JayD

I would use a lift, Bugger climbing that!

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JohN Dee

Holy Jebus Cannon.

First of all welcome to the site . For a novice climber I would indeed say you are in way over your head. I would recommend as others have, using an Elevated Work Platform.

Stay safe mate.

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Eric Frei

Hey, check it out.

Pic2 close up, already got ya pulley installed by the looks.

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Cannon

There is no way of getting a tower, lift, bucket or genie boom into this backyard. The alleyway is 3' wide, (staircases and fence's). Is the danger that the whole tree would topple or is it that the branches would snap unexpectedly? Would you bring in scaffolding? The building behind the tree is about 12' tall; I suppose it could be used to tie off too. 25' scaffold is fairly high.

juniorgilman

I knew Ekka was observant, but wow!!! I know I didn't see that b/f he pointed it out.

Matt

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Eric Frei

Did you see the home-owner here in Brisbane who built the tower of terror?

INCREDIBLE, Home owner removal photos, the tower of terror!

Also, in a couple of the latest video's I put up we are using a tower, check out the reach.

See if you can measure the reach over the building top to where those vehicles are parked. Small crane too, maybe you can tie into the ball or work out of a cage.

That thing sure looks bad. It has happened before where the roots have failed and the tree fell over killing the climber.

Maybe take down that cyclone mesh fence and fell the bugger, even if you fell it from half way up, you can then have a high line attached to the units somewhere.

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TREE-SURFER

Hello Cannon, and welcome.
As a climber, I would strongly advise against doing so on this, not so well tree. The tree, being so dry and baron, could in fact be holding onto some not so good fractures, with added movement and shock loads, could render a rather dangerous situation. As this area is so tight, I would go with Ekka; take out the fence and drop the top section with the added top rope to pull over. Use a scarf cut - birds mouth - gob cut, about 90degrees open and set at 45 degrees to the trunk (Just above where Ekka spotted that elusive pulley), make a bore cut as if you were felling a tree that was leaning forward, place tension on pulling rope/s and finish of with a diagonal cut from the rear to meet your bore cut. Block down as normal. Don't wanna make it sound as if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but had 1 like that a few month back, totaly unpredictable. The key is directional felling with aid of ropes and/or portable winch and a trusty set of ladders.

What do you think Ekka?

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Sean Freeman

Hi Cannon, as I've said on another thread here somewhere dead trees are extremely dangerous, climbing them even more so...based on the photos you posted I would have to spend an hour or more working out how to manage the likelihood of the entire stem failing on me if I began climbing it! Unless there was a larger stablle tree above it, or I could rig myself off a crane I wouldn't climb it at all....not even to fell the top half.
Scaffold might be an option, or a small mobile crane, either way doubt the client is going to be wild about the price! Cheapest option is as Ekka suggests remove fence and fell..then rake and rake and rake.

Eric Frei

It's always hard when you are not there in person. Plus I have no experience with the species.

I just would like to see ole mate walk away safe, and all ideas are good, yours with the wide mouth scarf (notch for USA) is right too. At the end of the day Cannon will do his best, at least he has many options now to consider, but no tree is worth you getting an injury.

Keep us posted Cannon, you have an excellent attitude to your work, you will do well in this trade if you keep an open mind and stay safe.

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osb_mail

Hey it looks like you might be able to hit some of those branches from the window with a pole saw .Then maybe you could pull the stem with a rope .

Quintrex

Pole saw idea is worth considering. What about crane the whole tree out in one bit? A careful climb to place sling is all.
If you don't think it can be done safely, walk away. It's not worth a broken back for a job.

Brad Goyen

Or use the cage on a crane if there isn't room to lay it down.
What species was it and how stable is the timber known to be after death? if it is a harder species then keeping to the centre line and using a pole saw from the crown may be possible
If it is a soft wood use some hastings sticks from the balcony with a turbocut head and it will reach out about 20 ft with three sections and it cuts well

These ideas are only if the client don't want the fence down if the fence can come out fell it

pomme

there looks to be room for a crane at the rear. if you have to climb this tree take it really slow and be very aware of the feedback the tree gives take as much weight as poss away with minimum shock to the main stem, no lowering or zip lining. the fence is expendable if your client won t accept that and wont pay for a crane walk away. i have done trees like this in the past but you do need to put your balls in your pocket and it is not always worth the risk.if you take it on best of luck

JayD

Cannon,
If you are not sure you can sucessfully get this dead tree down safely, Walk!

The most important person is you,an injury could have have drinking your food throught a straw.

So one more time if you can't see yourself getting tree down safely, Walk!

Listen to your gut feeling, posting pictures and asking questions, your on the write track. Stay safe and live long.

Options.
Crane,lift, or walk.

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Houthakker

Why climb (un-)safe when you can use the crane to hoist you down. If it can lift the tree it can lift you and me (me being 105kg) as well.

Eric Frei

Houtthaker

Here in Australia you are not allowed to ride the crane hook. No tieing into the hook. You are allowed to be in a "man basket" though.

Yes, stupid rule but I didn't make it, made by industry people who think cranes only used in construction.

If you could ride the hook be very straight forward job, most cranes have 130' boom plus additional fly.

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Houthakker

Hi Ekka, why not get somebody to make a legal case out of it? Was on my to doing just that in the Netherlands when I moved to Sweden. Here in Sweden the crane-operators I use look at my gear, what I think about life ( I have a wife waiting for me at home) and say it is no problem.
Had a discussion in NL with a controller for this, he did not fine me because he saw it was safer to go into,also a dead, tree with help of the crane than climbing it.

Eric Frei

Stubborn bastids here mate, know all wankers.

First huge problem is crane drivers and doggers think they're God, then there's a huge line of people behind them.

Try the other angle and you find it easier to change the currency than reason with govt big wigs.

Yes, I bet there's provisions but frankly, easier to work around the problem than try changing the rules here.

You ought to see the utter BS we went through on our last crane job with the simple rigging, stubborn know alls mate! I give up with them.

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groundpounder

Have the owner sign a property damage waiver, take down the chain link fence, and flop the sucker. Set your tag line with a throwball.Or walk away. I wouldn't climb this tree.

TTHip

Hi everyone....i'm new to this forum...

you need to know when to walk away from a tree.....or, bid the job to take into account all of the possibilities: broken fence, broken shed, crane rental, headaches....

just my 2cents......

treejames64

I've been climbing dead trees for too many years. We specialize in the trees the other companies don't want to do. Usually I take several ropes and put them up as high as possible (on the stub) and pull them in a triangular patter and tie them off so the tree is someone supported. I then use a dynamic climbing rope (mountain climbing as opposed to the static or tree climbing rope) and tie it at the bottom of the tree and run it up to the higest safe position (on the stub before the crown) possibe where I run it through a strap, carabiner. Then I climb up into the braches above this point with the dynamic climbing rope on a gibbs decender. If the top breaks out I am usually well under a fall factor of one which gives me a quick skip of the heart and a stretched rope but I should be oK. I also use a tear away lanyard rigged to break at 200lbs. This is only for trees that I can't get bucket trucks, cranes, etc to. Of course the customer pays dearly for this. If anyone knows a safer way I'm always learning. I've been climbing for 26 years.

treejames64

Someone asked me why we tie the rope at the base of the tree and run it up instead of tying it at the point we wish to climb above. It hast to do with the length of rope which gives us further protection. Here's fall factor explained.

by Editor
December 29, 2001

From Petzl Catalog:
http://www.petzl.com
"A lot of climbers don't really understand the fall factor concept; however, it's pretty simple, even if you hated math (this is math you can use in later life. In fact , you can use it to have a later life) Fall Factor is simply the length of the fall divided by the length of the rope from faller to belayer. The equation looks like this;

Fall Factor = Length of Fall / Length of Rope

Fall Factor 2 is the maximum you should encounter in a typical climbing fall, since the height of a fall can't exceed two times the length of the rope. Normally, a Fall Factor 2 can only occur when a leader who has placed no protection falls past the belayer, or the anchor if it's a solo climb. As soon as protection is placed, the distance of the fall as a function of the rope length is lessened, and the Fall Factor drops below 2.

Your life depends on the stretch of the rope...

Shock load is the result of three factors; The nature of the rope, the fall factor, and the weight of the falling object. That is you.

Obviously, the only part of this equation that can reduce the force of a fall is the bungee-like stretch of the dynamic rope (unless, of course, you can lose weight really fast). Thus, climbing safety systems are designed around the shock-absorbing quality of dynamic rope. It cushions the fall, reducing the impact force and the chance of system failure. In fact, the dynamic rope is the one "given" in the whole system. It is designed to limit the force of one climber's weight (80 KG) in a worst-case fall (Fall Factor 2) to not more that 12 kN. Thus, the rest of the gear can be designed to work with this known maximum force.

More rope means more stretch to absorb a fall. Which explains why a Fall Factor 2 drop of 4 meters develops the same shock force - 9 kN - as one of 20 meters, assuming a dynamic rope is used that conforms to UIAA standards. What's happening is that the increasing length of the fall ( and the greater shock force that goes with it) is compensated by the greater length of the rope available to cushion its arrest.

Static rope doesn't stretch enough....

(WLL)

easy pickins fer a small boom truck. thats one tree you should avoid climbing and looks like the crane can go where them vans are parked. Ekka if you are not allowed to tie in off the ball, what about tyeing to the boom?
BTW Cannon where abouts in Pa are you at, I'm in Doylestown/Bucks county?

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newguy18

easy enough to climb and wreck out if there is no other way.The tree in the first post can be safely climbed,however if there were any indication of root rot,i'd guy it to the ground before wrecking it out,to prevent uprooting.

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(WLL)

just lob the ol 51 out the winder and make some one handed rip cuts
BTW if ya dont want to stand behind a bunch of good climbers, by all meens get in front of them

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newguy18

No,i was actually thinking get up to the top where all the small stuff was coming out of the trunk,making snap cuts and breaking them off over away from the fence. last time i checked,i was a pretty good climber,not a great one by any means but good enough to do some of the most dangerous trees in my area.

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