Buying Over Seas in Australia

comgreserv · 12th January 2011, 03:16 AM

Lads!
Can someone PLEASE clear up the confusion for me. For those of you who have already done it... Am I right in thinking that as long as my potential purchase is below AU$1000 in value (including shipping), that I am not going to be charged ANY extra hidden charges once it hits Aust? If I'm on the wrong track please set me straight

Drouin Tree Service · 12th January 2011, 07:37 AM

you are correct

sir_nick2 · 12th January 2011, 04:56 PM

Hi all, the helmet looks pretty flash bit out there but good concept none the less. Sorry to hijack this thread but I didn't wanna start a new one with what could probably be answered with one reply. My question is for Trev, how come the Australian arborist supply market is always nearly double in price compared to the US, for instance the lock jack I know you guys are running a special at the moment for 499 but at wesspur you can pick it up for round about 300 plus say $50 to ship, it's just beyond me how you guys can justify that kind of mark up even with things like the hitch climber system to buy it here from GYC or atraes I'm Sydney I was looking at over $230 for the carabiners, pulley and eye to eye prussic but I finished up shipping it from the states for less than $150 if I remember right.

comgreserv · 12th January 2011, 09:11 PM

Cheers for that! Someone said I'd be up for custom fees in addition to what the seller has charged me for shipping.

Eric Frei · 12th January 2011, 10:19 PM

BS, just get it posted to you. Under $1000 it's sweet, but hey, the value of the goods is placed on the customs package slip their end (senders end) .... so on some goods especially "second hand" who knows what the value is.

sir_nick2 · 15th January 2011, 08:13 AM

I haven't offended anyone have I?

TrevMcRev · 16th January 2011, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_nick2

My question is for Trev, how come the Australian arborist supply market is always nearly double in price compared to the US, for instance the lock jack I know you guys are running a special at the moment for 499 but at wesspur you can pick it up for round about 300 plus say $50 to ship, it's just beyond me how you guys can justify that kind of mark up even with things like the hitch climber system to buy it here from GYC or atraes I'm Sydney I was looking at over $230 for the carabiners, pulley and eye to eye prussic but I finished up shipping it from the states for less than $150 if I remember right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_nick2

I haven't offended anyone have I?

Hi sir_nick2

No offence taken here. Good question.

I'll answer as best I can.

There are many reasons, some simple & obvious, others complex & more obscure.

1. The Dollar.
At the moment, the AUD is great, but it's not always the case, see below:

0.80 to 0.85 is probably a realistic baseline over time.

2. Volume.
The US is a way bigger market, which means when you can sell in huge quantities you can sell at lower margin due to the volume of sales.
To give an idea, our population is under 22 mil.
The state of california alone is over 37 mill and there are still another 49 states to sell to! So you are gonna move a lot more product of anything ('cept vegemite!) in the USofA. Can you imagine the volume say sherrill moves? I could live with a low margin on that sort of volume.

3. Origin.
Approx 1/2 the arb products originate from the USA, the other 1/2 Europe.
Very little comes from Australia. So in the US, US products are going to be a low cost & in Europe, Euro products are cheaper too. When the US imports its European products it is more cost effective for them due to the massive Volume that it still works out cheap. US products in europe are dearer. Interesting to note, i spoke to a US arb retailer interested in Aussie ArmorPrus, but the landed cost makes it so prohibitive, it would be more than double any other good US cord. Funny that! But when Australia has to import smaller volumes for a smaller market from USA & Europe it costs more. Also, many wholesalers/manufacturers will ship orders free to retailers within their own country, so again lower costs for USA retailers than international importers/retailers.

4. Importing.
When importing from overseas, we have to pay 10% GST, + Import Duties of 5-10%, + Customs Clearance & Broker Fees. A small order like your hitchclimber set up avoids all of the above, unless you go over $1000AUD inc shipping. Then you will have to pay all that too.

5. Lower operating costs. The info below is from an article in todays Age.Overseas websites offer wider range for less
It is cheaper to do business in the USA than here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Age

Non-supervisory staff working for US retailers earn about $13.30 an hour (taking the Australian and US dollars as roughly at parity), while the equivalent figure for Australian retail employees is about $24 an hour - almost 80 per cent difference.
Australian retailers typically incur higher occupancy costs. Retail in the US are paying about 13-13.5 per cent of turnover in occupancy costs, in Australia they are paying more than 17 per cent. Third, Australian retailers are typically less efficient than their US counterparts in managing inventories. Although stock turnover rates vary greatly across the retail sectors of both countries (according to the types of goods), on average Australian retailers hold stock equivalent to nearly five weeks' worth of sales, whereas US retailers hold stock equivalent to four weeks' worth.

That's a difference of almost 18 per cent, and it will be reflected in higher holding costs (storage, insurance and interest), which thus contribute to higher prices for Australians. Of course, Australia's more sparsely distributed population (7.2 per cent of the US spread over roughly the same land area, excluding Alaska) necessitates at least some retailers holding higher stock levels and incurring higher transport costs than their US counterparts.

Fourth, Australian retailers typically have higher gross margins than in the US. From the national accounts, the ''gross operating surplus'' (roughly speaking, profit before depreciation, amortisation, interest and tax) of US retailers represented 20.9 per cent of ''gross valued added'' in 2009, while for Australian retailers in 2009-10 the equivalent figure was 27.5 per cent.

Curiously, this does not translate into higher accounting profit margins: according to ABS figures, Australian retailers' pre-tax profits represented 3.6 per cent of sales in 2009-10, while the corresponding figure for US retailers was 4.3 per cent. The apparent inconsistency may be attributable to Australian retailers having higher interest costs or higher levels of gearing, than their US counterparts.

Interesting....

So thats a bit about the Why..........Bearing all that in mind.........

Let's look at some scenarios & some benefits of local vs foreign.

1. Cost Scenario. Lets use your Hitchclimber System as an example.
We'll use 2x Petzl OK carabiners, 1x Yale Beeline Spliced eye2eye prussik & a standard DMM Hitchclimber Pulley. Pretty common set-up. I'd prefer DMM Ultra-O biners & Ocean Polyester or ArmorPrus, but not all suppliers have them. I have just used each companys shopping cart for this.
USA:
At Wesspur=$133.90 +27.50 USPost(no tracking) or $95.70 UPS = $161.40 to $229.60
At TreeStuff=$125.80 + $50.32 USPost = $176.12
At SherrillTree=$144.90, couldn't get shipping from their cart, kept dropping out, but usually around $80 minimum to Australia.
AUST:
At Treegear=$199.80 inc GST of which you claim back $18.16 = $181.64
At ATREAS=$274.50 inc GST of which you claim back $24.95 = $249.55
Treegear would ship Free, i'm not sure about Atreas shipping as i would have had to sign up before being able to check it.

Now you have to look a bit closer at the US prices & bear in mind the following: Your bank, credit card or paypal will ALWAYS give you about 2-2.5 cents under the current exchange rate. Your bank or credit card will charge an extra seperate fee for the international transaction too. So add about another $10 to cover all of the above.

There starts to be not much in it really.

And this example is on something really compact & light. Watch the international shipping quotes zoom if you order 200' of 5/8" rigging rope, 6 throwbags, 5 steel carabiners, a portawrap & a 15'x5/8"steelcore flipline! $300+???

Even at $ parity, something heavy to ship can easy go from $700 of goods + $320 shipping = $1020. Now $1020 + GST + Import Duty, + Customs Clearance + Brokers Fees =$1500 And all of a sudden your order cost more than double, before you got screwed by the bank for a few cents per $ and some more for international transaction fees.

Then lets hope the order gets to you OK and everything is spot on.
Are you gonna pay twice as much to send something back?
Shipping from Aust back to US is about double that of the reverse...

Interestingly, while researching this I found Treestuff in the US to have the new (European) DMM Impact Blocks for the EXACT same price as i do here!

If the Oz$ holds ground here much longer you will see more prices at Treegear come down.

Also, i'm right here, you can communicate with me, talk climbing, talk tree business, drop in, touch & feel gear, try on saw pants, hang in a harness, easily return anything NQR......

Hope that gives some ideas...It's not just Arb gear, in the US you can buy 39c Tacos, pay 75c a lt for fuel, buy a brand new 5 star 2 bed unit a block from venice beach for $700k (equiv in Bondi...$2m), buy a brand new Porsche 911 GTS for $103k (here..$270k), or a brand new Camaro, Mustang convertible or Chevy Silverado for $34k ($100k+ here)

Trev

Eric Frei · 16th January 2011, 01:04 AM

Many moons ago (1993) an American retailer came to Australia and screamed from the retail rooftops of how us Aussies were getting ripped off on buying toys.

It was Toys"R"Us.

They boasted on TV that they could sell the same toys at half the price and commenced their large outlets across the nation.

Myer responded in the war and didn't want to lose sales so they opened large new stores called World4Kids.

A few years down the track both stores were not doing very well, Myer closed down World4Kids and Toys R US prices went up to pretty much what Aussies had been paying before. I remember interviews on TV with Toys R US and the main thing that rattled them was the high costs of doing business in Australia vs USA and the lower volumes sold.

The largest loser was Toyworld who were lucky to stay in business but franchised shop owners went from a decent living to near on broke, one couple I knew who ran a Toyworld store netted $80K profit one year, shabby for 80 hour weeks and two people but they survived.

Look at USA minimum adult wages, they're a joke if the State has them at all, $7.25 to $8.40 an hour, you cannot even get a junior for that in a shop here.

They don't have 4 weeks annual leave, as many public holidays, super, sickies etc .... and I doubt the shop rents are as expensive as they are here. There's a huge difference and whilst we may be giving Gerry Harvey (Harvey Norman) a flogging about the retailers campaign of inequity due to overseas online stores his point is absolutely correct, it is not a level playing field.

Garry Brockley · 17th January 2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

There's a huge difference and whilst we may be giving Gerry Harvey (Harvey Norman) a flogging about the retailers campaign of inequity due to overseas online stores his point is absolutely correct, it is not a level playing field.

thats true but people only see the small picture never the economic value of in country trading.

TrevMcRev · 17th January 2011, 04:01 PM

Also, today the new national consumer code was brought in.

Stand buy your consumer rights | Herald Sun

The article highlights another good point to shopping local.

Quote:

NATIONAL laws protecting Australian consumers are now in force but buyers must still beware, writes Anthony Keane.

Consumer protection has been beefed up by new national laws, but traps still remain for unwary shoppers.

The Australian Consumer Law, which came into force this month, replaces old state-based systems and it targets areas such as product safety and unfair selling practices as well as product guarantees.

Consumer group Choice has welcomed the changes and says it campaigned for many of them for decades. "For the first time Australians everywhere have the same consumer rights," Choice spokeswoman Ingrid Just says.

"There were so many different laws under different state and territory rules."

However, the new consumer laws will only be successful if people understand them and stand up for their rights.

A common trap for consumers that still costs people a packet is the extended warranties that retailers offer for big item purchases such as electrical and whitegoods. These warranties can cost hundreds of dollars each, but Choice says they are pointless because products that break down quickly can be returned and replaced anyway. "We still recommend there's no real need to buy these extended warranties, because implied statutory warranties talk about 'a reasonable time' and our research shows products in the main last for that time, if not longer," Just says.

Buying goods online from overseas suppliers is another potential trap, as the new laws do not extend offshore. "These strengthened consumer laws are only applicable to consumers who purchase items within Australia," Just says.

Schaper says the laws also clarify what a consumer can demand if they are sold a faulty product. "If the problem is major, or can't be fixed within a reasonable time, the consumer can choose what he or she prefers a refund, a replacement good or compensation for any drop in value," he says.

"A major failure is generally one that is so severe a reasonable consumer would not have bought the good or service if they had fully understood the problem with it."

Product safety laws and standards are now national, which will help. The ACCC says consumers can report product safety issues to their place of purchase, by clicking on www.productsafety.com.au, or giving the ACCC a call on 1300 302 502. More details about the Australian Consumer Law are at ACCC home.

TrevMcRev · 17th January 2011, 04:08 PM

As far as Gerry Harvey goes, I think his real problem is he missed the boat on selling online & should worry more about getting his own butt into gear & putting up a good online store and sell more volume with a lower overhead and get on with it.

There are some real good online-only appliance stores located here in Oz doing really well.

sir_nick2 · 18th January 2011, 05:16 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys a lot of food for thought maybe I should stop looking at the low ticket prices and consider everything from postage, the time it takes to get here and after sales service. I'll be supporting the local blokes from now on I think

Garry Brockley · 19th January 2011, 10:23 AM

good on yer mate

you cant beat having a local supplier that you get a good working relationship with.

12th January 2011, 03:16 AM	#1
comgreserv Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 50	Buying Over Seas in Australia Lads! Can someone PLEASE clear up the confusion for me. For those of you who have already done it... Am I right in thinking that as long as my potential purchase is below AU$1000 in value (including shipping), that I am not going to be charged ANY extra hidden charges once it hits Aust? If I'm on the wrong track please set me straight

12th January 2011, 07:37 AM	#2
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,727	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia you are correct __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

12th January 2011, 04:56 PM	#3
sir_nick2 Sappling Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 28	Re: New Treegear\|Climbing Helmet\|Pfanner Protos Integral Hi all, the helmet looks pretty flash bit out there but good concept none the less. Sorry to hijack this thread but I didn't wanna start a new one with what could probably be answered with one reply. My question is for Trev, how come the Australian arborist supply market is always nearly double in price compared to the US, for instance the lock jack I know you guys are running a special at the moment for 499 but at wesspur you can pick it up for round about 300 plus say $50 to ship, it's just beyond me how you guys can justify that kind of mark up even with things like the hitch climber system to buy it here from GYC or atraes I'm Sydney I was looking at over $230 for the carabiners, pulley and eye to eye prussic but I finished up shipping it from the states for less than $150 if I remember right.

12th January 2011, 09:11 PM	#4
comgreserv Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 50	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia Cheers for that! Someone said I'd be up for custom fees in addition to what the seller has charged me for shipping.

12th January 2011, 10:19 PM	#5
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia BS, just get it posted to you. Under $1000 it's sweet, but hey, the value of the goods is placed on the customs package slip their end (senders end) .... so on some goods especially "second hand" who knows what the value is. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

15th January 2011, 08:13 AM	#6
sir_nick2 Sappling Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 28	Re: New Treegear\|Climbing Helmet\|Pfanner Protos Integral I haven't offended anyone have I?

16th January 2011, 01:04 AM	#8
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: New Treegear\|Climbing Helmet\|Pfanner Protos Integral Many moons ago (1993) an American retailer came to Australia and screamed from the retail rooftops of how us Aussies were getting ripped off on buying toys. It was Toys"R"Us. They boasted on TV that they could sell the same toys at half the price and commenced their large outlets across the nation. Myer responded in the war and didn't want to lose sales so they opened large new stores called World4Kids. A few years down the track both stores were not doing very well, Myer closed down World4Kids and Toys R US prices went up to pretty much what Aussies had been paying before. I remember interviews on TV with Toys R US and the main thing that rattled them was the high costs of doing business in Australia vs USA and the lower volumes sold. The largest loser was Toyworld who were lucky to stay in business but franchised shop owners went from a decent living to near on broke, one couple I knew who ran a Toyworld store netted $80K profit one year, shabby for 80 hour weeks and two people but they survived. Look at USA minimum adult wages, they're a joke if the State has them at all, $7.25 to $8.40 an hour, you cannot even get a junior for that in a shop here. They don't have 4 weeks annual leave, as many public holidays, super, sickies etc .... and I doubt the shop rents are as expensive as they are here. There's a huge difference and whilst we may be giving Gerry Harvey (Harvey Norman) a flogging about the retailers campaign of inequity due to overseas online stores his point is absolutely correct, it is not a level playing field. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

17th January 2011, 04:08 PM	#11
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,594	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia As far as Gerry Harvey goes, I think his real problem is he missed the boat on selling online & should worry more about getting his own butt into gear & putting up a good online store and sell more volume with a lower overhead and get on with it. There are some real good online-only appliance stores located here in Oz doing really well.

18th January 2011, 05:16 PM	#12
sir_nick2 Sappling Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 28	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia Thanks for all the responses guys a lot of food for thought maybe I should stop looking at the low ticket prices and consider everything from postage, the time it takes to get here and after sales service. I'll be supporting the local blokes from now on I think

19th January 2011, 10:23 AM	#13
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,641	Re: Buying Over Seas in Australia good on yer mate you cant beat having a local supplier that you get a good working relationship with. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

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