"Bowline banned in NSW"?

MTS247

Was talking to somone today and he mentioned somthing about bowlines being "banned" as a primary attachment when tree climbing. he may have been refering to "power company policy" rather that worksafe.

Eric Frei

Banned by who?

I never terminate with that knot anyway .... figure 8, bullet proof.

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newguy18

I've heard it can roll out but have only experianced it failing when not set right.I knot my climbline directly to my center dee with a bowline,then tie a tautline hitch out of the tail,simple,fool proof.

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old schooler

(WLL)

bowline, a bad choice for krabs dew to gate loading, a captive eye is better suit. i like the dbl and triple fish knots, they cinch down and make loading the gate near impossible. there are many good knots to use on your krabs, choose wisely

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treefeller

I started off using bowlines but recently started using dbl fish knots

MTS247

We were always taught to lock off our bowline. but lots off climbers i'v seen, including me, tie their bowline with 2 loops at the start this makes the knot alot tighter.

"banned by who" i'll ask the blok today if i see him, but i assume it may have been a power company thing. like having to use "wrist protectors" when climbing with a chainsaw.

TrevMcRev

Before using spliced eyes I always prefered dbl figure 8 to a bowline for lifeline attachment.

When the beauty of a bowline is how easily they undo even after being loaded, it doesnt make sense to hang your life on it.

If it were under constant load i think it would be OK. In a climbing application it comes on & off load many times, giving opportunity to loosen, especially on stiff ropes that dont set so tightly.

Yes, the knot can be made more secure with an extra turn or stopper knot.

In Newguy18s Oldschool method of running a long tail and using that for the hitch it really can't go anywhere though.

JohN Dee

It's not banned. Look at our CoP.

I have worked for TransGrid (Anal power company) and they say nothing about it.

I think this banning talk may have stemmed from 2 rock climbers or bungee jumpers dying after the bowline failed as there termination knot. We got told this story on our first day at our climbing course lvl 2 as to why we use double figure of eight locked off with a fishermans.

I love the fishermans too, BUT when constantly taking your knot out of the carabiner and pitching it over your next limb (most times pruning) the cinching effect makes it hard to get off the biner and likes to try and roll out after you pitch it over your limb. Double figure of eight rules for constant pitching of your line.

On another note though, I learnt to climb on the bowline with a yosemite bite off.

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rbtree

A bowline as a life support termination knot should never be tied to a carabiner, as it can't be attached tightly, thus, it is very easy for the gate to become side loaded.

A double or triple scaffold knot is the most secure (same as half a double/triple fisherman's but the right treminology) Anchor bend or buntline are next best.

Willard Holmen

Climbing line tied to biner with anchor bend and tail terminated with a figure eight knot is what I used. Now use climbing line with long splice eye "girthed" onto biner. Biner never sideloads.

Angus

Agreed!!

I'd also be really interested to hear 'who' determines whether a knot is legal or illegal. Whether I agree or disagree with the assertion, I would like to see the qualifications for why the knot is 'illegal'.

I have two categories of knots - life support and rigging. The attributes of a life support knot are quite different to a rigging knot. (Just like rigging equipment).

A bowline is a great knot for its simplicity and how easy it is to undo after it has been placed under heavy load.

However if we contrast the knots construction to a figure-8, the bowline is more likely to come undone, and is not suitable for regular variations in load direction and load force.

Under life support conditions, the figure-8 is more secure and robust than a bowline. For this reason, I cannot see why one would opt for a bowline over a figure-8. If anyone could tell me I would be interested to hear it.

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Angus McMahon
Sherbrooke Tree Service

Victor Lindsay

When I was rock climbing in NM, I'd use the figure 8 always. In tree work I use an anchor hitch with the tail as my blakes.

I use the fishermans when connecting my rigging line to a binner.

kiwi_tree_steve

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