Arborists, what's wrong with this picture?

JohN Dee · 31st May 2007, 01:44 AM

Ekka that is a bloody outrage! Mate call me nuts but it's starting to look like the best thing you can do is run to become the local MP of your area and try and stress these ongoing issues amongst the politicians to make a change.

Although if something that sinister was to happen down here they would be prosecuted under the TPO Legislation - a group needs to be formed with both political and financial backing power to be the authority body on the tree industry to place TPO's throughout Australia and to prevent these hacks (WITH QUALIFICATIONS!) from working in our industry and completing jobs like these.

Today I was getting rid of cocos palm logs at the tip and blimey I must of seen at least 4 different businesses that were a bunch of hacks! These hacks are spreading like a the plague. The even worse bit is that these hacks are starting to get their papers (Qualifications) and still have a blatent disrespect to the tree industry and its standards.

A very long, but brilliant post Sean, two thumbs up. It's like my teacher always says about Architects, Engineers and Landscapers. You've gotta catch em' young to get the ball rolling.

Eric Frei · 31st May 2007, 08:17 AM

When I was talking with Glen from Q-Build I spoke of a situation where the building was subsiding and cracking.

Would the supervisor just call Q-Build and request underpinning or would Q-Build send a building engineer out to write specifications for remedial works?

Then if the qualified builder ignored engineering standards and build the wrong thing would Q-Build take further action and demand repair/reinstatement if not prosecution? Of course they would.

But this is just a tree and every ones an expert on them, part of the criteria for the pruning ... from the ignorant in charge was so it would bush up nicely. I knew that had to be in there.

I also assimilated the qualified arborist doing malpractice to a builder doing the same. They may be qualified but it doesn't mean they are working to regs/standards.

This is another extremely typical display, in a very very busy place. This is govt ignoring their own rules and responsibilities. This is Brisbane, where the boat rockers are the trouble makers and the hacks are best mates. Read the front page of that tree services website. How many references is there to quality, integrity, govt quality assured bla bla bla ... to me that is fraud and lies. Then you see the picture of their own yard, the tree they pruned in high visual display.

And you know what, theoretically they haven't broken a law. A standard perhaps but that's open to opinion as you can clearly see and even endorsed by govt as acceptable as in this case. When the govt themselves buries their heads in the sand you surely have little chance of improvement.

BCC has the keys to the city on TPO's, State govt on licencing etc ... so I'll take the fight to them, but don't hold your breath .... we're just disgruntled tree loppers to them.

Drouin Tree Service · 31st May 2007, 05:05 PM

Q-build are as much at fault as "brisbane tree services",must be no quality work checks or no care im betting the later.More lazy "managers"like Glenn sitting around passing the buck.No doubt theyl all try and band together and weather the storm even thou there completly wrong!"brisbane tree services" trying to keep there contract and "glenn"keeping his slate clean for his money for jam job.

I challenge you Glenn to tell me how hard your job is!

Eric Frei · 4th June 2007, 04:12 PM

Malcolm the regional manager I think is looking into it now, just rang, that's good, getting some movement here and he's seen this thread.

Drouin Tree Service · 4th June 2007, 04:54 PM

We will see if they have the balls to act against things like this,really it would take very little to change the scene.A few fines handed out would take the wind out of ALOT of the hacks.

That standard of work is just plain rediculous.

newguy18 · 15th July 2007, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Have a look and let me know, I was thinking of advertising this method and cleaning up in this town ... people are "Q'ing" up for this, they love it.

Many times they say it had to be done, coz the tree was dangerous.

Dunno. I have been driving past these trees for 15 years and never seen anything dangerous but then again, I didn't pull over to inspect and analyse like a paid consultant should.

Anyway, let me know, do you think I could use them as a huge billboard like they are now, tens of thousands of people go past this busy place a day, right opposite a shop entrance and on a bad set of lights that most people catch red.

Looks like they walked out on a removal.

Jeff Darby · 15th July 2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

Ekka that is a bloody outrage! Mate call me nuts but it's starting to look like the best thing you can do is run to become the local MP of your area and try and stress these ongoing issues amongst the politicians to make a change.

Hi Folks,
I just re read this post and Ekka, I think John has a good idea you should run for office, You definately have your platform forming as we speak.sometimes to get the job done you have to get amongst it many differant ways me for one would vote for you if I lived in your electorate. But seriously I think you would have a good chance of making it,Then you would have the clout you need to rectify the wrongs going on up there.
Please dont reject this idea Ekka, Think of the number of happy folks you have looked after over the years during the course of your business, sureley from there a voteing base would start,The environment is very important these days..and think of the good you do for Arboriculture in general...All laughs aside I think you would do well.Just a suggestion mate.

Ekka,MP (Arboriculture)

Eric Frei · 15th July 2007, 01:29 PM

Gawd

Thanks for the kind words but politics certainly isn't my cuppa.

John Stewart · 29th July 2007, 10:40 AM

Damn Dudes!
Been away for awhile but what the hell is that
I don't care where in the world you are they need to give their head a shake
By the way what kind of trees were they and I do mean were?
Nice to be back online!

Eric Frei · 29th July 2007, 10:57 AM

Jeez John, where have you been?

The trees were

Corymbia (euc) torelliana and Bauhinia variegata

I wrote to the Lord Mayor's office of Brisbane and received a response (thanks guys).

They refered the matter on to Honourable Robert Schwarten MP, Minister of Public works and Housing. That dept looks after govt building works etc.

They did mention in the letter that the larger tree closer to the building is a declared pest, and excluded from protection. But on that note they miss a very serious point.

Australian Standards of pruning apply to all trees, regardless. Just because it's a pest doen't mean malpractice pruning is allowed or makes it safer.

Fact is there's a right and wrong way to prune, especially large trees, and some common sense for arborists removing so much of a canopy in the middle of a drought.

Fact is Q-Build threw away the rule book on this one, and many others. This just happens to be one I found which is recent, relevant and a perfect example of the poor administration and management of trees by a govt body.

This also displays the problems of the current vegetation protection system, some properties have protection some not ... but just because a tree does not have protection doesn't mean it can be butchered, that's what pruning standards are for.

To see it in a govt premise is down right disgusting.

John Stewart · 29th July 2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Jeez John, where have you been?

The trees were

Corymbia (euc) torelliana and Bauhinia variegata

Hey Brother

I needed to take a break from all the forums as I was falling into the trap of bitchin and not talkin trees
I really do miss it but my career took off and I just found better things to do with my time
You know it just got stupid

and I am hoping it will change
I like your site and the direction it is going
You and I are very similar in our thinking and I get running by my heart which often gets me in trouble
You keep it going though and I will back you when I can
Who knows maybe this is the start of my back on line
Cool bark on that Euc what a shame
Bunch of cowboy's
Take Care and talk to ya soon
John

Eric Frei · 29th July 2007, 11:16 AM

John

I mainly just hang here these days and AS at times.

Can keep a lid on the BS factor here and stay focused.

Your career took off, tree career or you doing something else? Every time I wanna walk and do something else another good tree job comes along etc and I stay ... times are tough here due to winter/drought/competition etc.

Be cool, take care mate, ignore the BS.

John Stewart · 29th July 2007, 11:32 AM

Naw brother I will never leave tree care!
I have gone to the municipal side of the industry
I am the foreman for the forestry dept for the City of Brampton
It is a different way of life as it is a union environment and management is none union
It throws a curve ball in to the mix but I enjoy the challenge
I do miss not being part of the crew but I still do tree work on the side

Houthakker · 30th July 2007, 03:37 AM

Something else that goes under the same range of idiocy. We didn't get a governmental job as we did not have biologist working with us. The job was to make an inventory of treelanes in the south of Sweden. About 4000 trees in total. After the report was finished and handed over to the government it became public. What came forth on several locations.... lanes with trees where trees had been cut down in the past. We are talking about trees 50-80cm in diameter, kinda big here in Sweden. Stumps had regrown with a big bush as result. According to their report this should be saved due to the high biological value. How dumm can you get??

OsAGe85 · 3rd August 2007, 09:12 AM

I dont know, but it looks like they knew EXACTLY what they were doing! (sarcasm)

newguy18 · 3rd August 2007, 09:43 AM

I am getting my brothers digital camera working so I can post pics of the trees in my area pretty soon.No videos though I need a 600 video card.

arbdog · 13th August 2007, 08:20 AM

Ive seen it all now. out of all the hundreds/thousands of trees that have been hacked at in my surrounding areas that takes the p$ss. My local authority care for there trees correctly. (the only good thing they do).

Roller · 17th August 2007, 03:04 AM

holy cr@p, when I see work like that I get that 'heads and brick wall feeling'

newguy18 · 17th August 2007, 04:59 AM

Ekka's right we need to make a stand in our areas to make sure it isn't done by hacks.That is pitiful to do that to trees.Does anyone do line clearance in your guys' area with a sally saw?That thing tears trees up bad.

godavey · 11th September 2007, 09:57 AM

i wouldnt suggest it that is horrible

treefeller · 11th September 2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbdog

Ive seen it all now. out of all the hundreds/thousands of trees that have been hacked at in my surrounding areas that takes the p$ss. My local authority care for there trees correctly. (the only good thing they do).

i agree, those pics are shocking, its the type of work pickies do over hear, like arbdog our local authorities would not tolerate work like that.

Eric Frei · 11th September 2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treefeller

its the type of work pickies do over hear,

Pickies, who or what are pickies? Hacks?

Sean Freeman · 11th September 2007, 08:53 PM

I think he meant to write pikeys = Gypsies, not complimentary.

Eric Frei · 11th September 2007, 08:56 PM

Gypsies are only in movies .. no?

treefeller · 11th September 2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

I think he meant to write pikeys = Gypsies, not complimentary.

opps yep thats what i meant to write, my spelling can be abit pants sometimes

Eric Frei · 11th September 2007, 10:00 PM

Well, explain these gypsies.

Do they live in tents and caravans or are they just bums or what? Is there a difference between gypsies and hacks?

treefeller · 11th September 2007, 10:30 PM

yeah Pickeys are hacks, normally live in caravans and go round door knocking, not liked at all.

pomme · 12th September 2007, 11:04 AM

and steal all ya kit bastards

Eric Frei · 12th September 2007, 07:57 PM

I heard they drive Sahara's towing tri-axel mega caravans and camp on farmers land when the gates are left open. Dump there rubbish on the roadside etc.

All cash work, they drift and door knock.

If this is the case take some pics of these dudes and lets see them, caravans and all.

Cant believe the authorities dont lock them up.

treefeller · 13th September 2007, 05:02 AM

Yep youve hit the nail on the head, Ill get some pics in, police wont do anything, too much hassle

31st May 2007, 01:44 AM	#31
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Ekka that is a bloody outrage! Mate call me nuts but it's starting to look like the best thing you can do is run to become the local MP of your area and try and stress these ongoing issues amongst the politicians to make a change. Although if something that sinister was to happen down here they would be prosecuted under the TPO Legislation - a group needs to be formed with both political and financial backing power to be the authority body on the tree industry to place TPO's throughout Australia and to prevent these hacks (WITH QUALIFICATIONS!) from working in our industry and completing jobs like these. Today I was getting rid of cocos palm logs at the tip and blimey I must of seen at least 4 different businesses that were a bunch of hacks! These hacks are spreading like a the plague. The even worse bit is that these hacks are starting to get their papers (Qualifications) and still have a blatent disrespect to the tree industry and its standards. A very long, but brilliant post Sean, two thumbs up. It's like my teacher always says about Architects, Engineers and Landscapers. You've gotta catch em' young to get the ball rolling. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

31st May 2007, 08:17 AM	#32
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	When I was talking with Glen from Q-Build I spoke of a situation where the building was subsiding and cracking. Would the supervisor just call Q-Build and request underpinning or would Q-Build send a building engineer out to write specifications for remedial works? Then if the qualified builder ignored engineering standards and build the wrong thing would Q-Build take further action and demand repair/reinstatement if not prosecution? Of course they would. But this is just a tree and every ones an expert on them, part of the criteria for the pruning ... from the ignorant in charge was so it would bush up nicely. I knew that had to be in there. I also assimilated the qualified arborist doing malpractice to a builder doing the same. They may be qualified but it doesn't mean they are working to regs/standards. This is another extremely typical display, in a very very busy place. This is govt ignoring their own rules and responsibilities. This is Brisbane, where the boat rockers are the trouble makers and the hacks are best mates. Read the front page of that tree services website. How many references is there to quality, integrity, govt quality assured bla bla bla ... to me that is fraud and lies. Then you see the picture of their own yard, the tree they pruned in high visual display. And you know what, theoretically they haven't broken a law. A standard perhaps but that's open to opinion as you can clearly see and even endorsed by govt as acceptable as in this case. When the govt themselves buries their heads in the sand you surely have little chance of improvement. BCC has the keys to the city on TPO's, State govt on licencing etc ... so I'll take the fight to them, but don't hold your breath .... we're just disgruntled tree loppers to them. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

31st May 2007, 05:05 PM	#33
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,697	Q-build are as much at fault as "brisbane tree services",must be no quality work checks or no care im betting the later.More lazy "managers"like Glenn sitting around passing the buck.No doubt theyl all try and band together and weather the storm even thou there completly wrong!"brisbane tree services" trying to keep there contract and "glenn"keeping his slate clean for his money for jam job. I challenge you Glenn to tell me how hard your job is! __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

4th June 2007, 04:12 PM	#34
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Malcolm the regional manager I think is looking into it now, just rang, that's good, getting some movement here and he's seen this thread. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

4th June 2007, 04:54 PM	#35
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,697	We will see if they have the balls to act against things like this,really it would take very little to change the scene.A few fines handed out would take the wind out of ALOT of the hacks. That standard of work is just plain rediculous. __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

15th July 2007, 01:29 PM	#38
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Gawd Thanks for the kind words but politics certainly isn't my cuppa. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

29th July 2007, 10:40 AM	#39
John Stewart Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Canada Posts: 7	Damn Dudes! Been away for awhile but what the hell is that I don't care where in the world you are they need to give their head a shake By the way what kind of trees were they and I do mean were? Nice to be back online! __________________ Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. C. S. Lewis

29th July 2007, 10:57 AM	#40
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Jeez John, where have you been? The trees were Corymbia (euc) torelliana and Bauhinia variegata I wrote to the Lord Mayor's office of Brisbane and received a response (thanks guys). They refered the matter on to Honourable Robert Schwarten MP, Minister of Public works and Housing. That dept looks after govt building works etc. They did mention in the letter that the larger tree closer to the building is a declared pest, and excluded from protection. But on that note they miss a very serious point. *Australian Standards of pruning apply to all trees, regardless. Just because it's a pest doen't mean malpractice pruning is allowed or makes it safer.* Fact is there's a right and wrong way to prune, especially large trees, and some common sense for arborists removing so much of a canopy in the middle of a drought. Fact is Q-Build threw away the rule book on this one, and many others. This just happens to be one I found which is recent, relevant and a perfect example of the poor administration and management of trees by a govt body. This also displays the problems of the current vegetation protection system, some properties have protection some not ... but just because a tree does not have protection doesn't mean it can be butchered, that's what pruning standards are for. To see it in a govt premise is down right disgusting. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

29th July 2007, 11:16 AM	#42
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	John I mainly just hang here these days and AS at times. Can keep a lid on the BS factor here and stay focused. Your career took off, tree career or you doing something else? Every time I wanna walk and do something else another good tree job comes along etc and I stay ... times are tough here due to winter/drought/competition etc. Be cool, take care mate, ignore the BS. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

29th July 2007, 11:32 AM	#43
John Stewart Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Canada Posts: 7	Naw brother I will never leave tree care! I have gone to the municipal side of the industry I am the foreman for the forestry dept for the City of Brampton It is a different way of life as it is a union environment and management is none union It throws a curve ball in to the mix but I enjoy the challenge I do miss not being part of the crew but I still do tree work on the side __________________ Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. C. S. Lewis

30th July 2007, 03:37 AM	#44
Houthakker Sappling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 46	Something else that goes under the same range of idiocy. We didn't get a governmental job as we did not have biologist working with us. The job was to make an inventory of treelanes in the south of Sweden. About 4000 trees in total. After the report was finished and handed over to the government it became public. What came forth on several locations.... lanes with trees where trees had been cut down in the past. We are talking about trees 50-80cm in diameter, kinda big here in Sweden. Stumps had regrown with a big bush as result. According to their report this should be saved due to the high biological value. How dumm can you get??

3rd August 2007, 09:12 AM	#45
OsAGe85 Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Littlerock Arkansas US Posts: 59	I dont know, but it looks like they knew EXACTLY what they were doing! (sarcasm) __________________ Gotta love the smell 2 stroke and wood chips. Be smart, be safe.

3rd August 2007, 09:43 AM	#46
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	I am getting my brothers digital camera working so I can post pics of the trees in my area pretty soon.No videos though I need a 600 video card. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

13th August 2007, 08:20 AM	#47
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 108	Ive seen it all now. out of all the hundreds/thousands of trees that have been hacked at in my surrounding areas that takes the p$ss. My local authority care for there trees correctly. (the only good thing they do).

17th August 2007, 03:04 AM	#48
Roller Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 143	holy cr@p, when I see work like that I get that 'heads and brick wall feeling' __________________ www.arboraeration.co.uk Tree healthcare specialists covering the UK

17th August 2007, 04:59 AM	#49
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Ekka's right we need to make a stand in our areas to make sure it isn't done by hacks.That is pitiful to do that to trees.Does anyone do line clearance in your guys' area with a sally saw?That thing tears trees up bad. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

11th September 2007, 09:57 AM	#50
godavey I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: denver Posts: 2	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? i wouldnt suggest it that is horrible

11th September 2007, 08:53 PM	#53
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? I think he meant to write pikeys = Gypsies, not complimentary.

11th September 2007, 08:56 PM	#54
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? Gypsies are only in movies .. no? __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

11th September 2007, 10:00 PM	#56
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? Well, explain these gypsies. Do they live in tents and caravans or are they just bums or what? Is there a difference between gypsies and hacks? __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

11th September 2007, 10:30 PM	#57
treefeller Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: aaa Posts: 224	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? yeah Pickeys are hacks, normally live in caravans and go round door knocking, not liked at all.

12th September 2007, 11:04 AM	#58
pomme Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 251	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? and steal all ya kit bastards

12th September 2007, 07:57 PM	#59
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? I heard they drive Sahara's towing tri-axel mega caravans and camp on farmers land when the gates are left open. Dump there rubbish on the roadside etc. All cash work, they drift and door knock. If this is the case take some pics of these dudes and lets see them, caravans and all. Cant believe the authorities dont lock them up. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

13th September 2007, 05:02 AM	#60
treefeller Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: aaa Posts: 224	Re: Arborists, what's wrong with this picture? Yep youve hit the nail on the head, Ill get some pics in, police wont do anything, too much hassle

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