Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree

Ekka · 23rd November 2007, 07:11 PM

Anne Frank Tree the Horse Chestnut in Amsterdam

Well, in a turn around for insurance companies one has stepped up to the plate to cover any failure of the above tree to buy time.

DutchNews.nl - Insurers to pay for Anne Frank tree

Quote:

Insurers to pay for Anne Frank tree

Wednesday 21 November 2007

The Dutch insurance association VvV said on Wednesday it will cover any uninsured damage caused to private property if the Anne Frank tree falls over.

A court on Tuesday ruled the tree must not be cut down until January at least, pending further investigations.

The proposed felling of the horse chestnut tree mentioned by Anne Frank in her famous the World War Two diary has triggered off a major controversy.

Amsterdam council and the Anne Frank Foundation say the tree must be cut down because it is so diseased it could fall over at any moment.

The insurance association?s offer comes after foundation director Hans Westra said he will ask Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen to intervene in the row. 'The mayor is responsible for the safety of locals and visitors to the Anne Frank house,' Westra said.

Sean Freeman · 23rd November 2007, 07:28 PM

Thanks for posting that Eric, I have held off raising this Chestnut tree issue here since I've been banging on about it for almost 2yrs around the forums and email lists..along with a great many more famous arb people!!

For those that want to read the chronology of disasters in the care of this tree, you'll have to work through the news archive at the Anne Frank museum website
News archive - the official Anne Frank House website
But a pretty fair breakdown of the major events is here
Chestnut tree seriously diseased - the official Anne Frank House website
The current position held by the museum is here
Q&A Anne Frank tree - the official Anne Frank House website
The pics and vid of the reduction works done in 2005 are here
Photos chestnut tree - the official Anne Frank House website
The vid will take some time to load btw....
The web cam showing the tree right now is here
Web cam secret annex - the official Anne Frank House website

Here's a shot of the location of the tree relative to other buildings and the canals....

Ekka · 23rd November 2007, 08:58 PM

Well, you know I always like to lift my own copy of things coz in years to come when links go dead ya got jack, so here's the video from one of Sean's links above about the 2005 reduction pruning on Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree.

Around 4mins and 23mb WMV

www.treeworld.info/video/annefranktree.wmv

pomme · 24th November 2007, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Well, you know I always like to lift my own copy of things coz in years to come when links go dead ya got jack, so here's the video from one of Sean's links above about the 2005 reduction pruning on Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree.

Around 4mins and 23mb WMV

www.treeworld.info/video/annefranktree.wmv

looks like a fun job pity about the end result. shame they didnt pay more attention to its asthetics. as this is the main reason for retention. from what i gather the tree is not in the best condition structurely

TrevMcRev · 24th November 2007, 05:04 PM

INteresting "reduction pruning"....

Wonder why it was done like that. Not much better than a lop job really.

Any photos/video showing the structure/trunk issues they mention as being so bad?

Sean Freeman · 24th November 2007, 06:07 PM

Have attached one of the Dutch reports and yes its in Dutch you can make reasonable sense out of it with auto translator, but I'm quessing you'll be more intersted in the two stem photos.
The troubling and confusing tomographs are totally meaningless (to me) and I'm sorry but htat is my experience with picus generally....and yes I do accept some of you will have much better experiences of using that technology than me.

vervolgonderzoek%20Anne%20Frankboom%202007%20-%20PFBA.pdf

TrevMcRev · 24th November 2007, 07:07 PM

Not sure how to translate a pdf....

Sounds to me like this was the boomtechisch adviseur (consulting arborist)

Sean Freeman · 24th November 2007, 07:22 PM

Yep thats pretty funny!

For the translate just copy the section of text then open say Altavista bable and paste the text into the box select Dutch to English (ofcourse!!) and click, you can then copy that translated bit and put it into word then just work your way through the text....OR I COULD DO IT FOR YOU TREV!!

NB tribe = stem, tribe foot = basal flare/buttress roots

report one is the report i attached previously
Auto translation of the Dutch reports.doc

Ekka · 24th November 2007, 08:18 PM

The Ole Ganoderma Australae got it.

From reading the report it appears to be down to 28% holding wood on the buttresses only and decay rate is accelerating, the tree is losing the fight.

Obviously the concern is when will it fall, at current rates of decay they say by 2010 it's a goner. However what about wind forces etc between now and then?

The black and brown areas of the picus are good wood, the green is affected yet has some strength. The blue and pink are hopeless decayed areas.

Sean Freeman · 24th November 2007, 08:37 PM

Hoping to show both reports to a Dutch speaker later this week and ask them to translate properly, hopefully some of the nuances lost by the machine may come out then. For me the picus is unconvincing and contradictory, but then have never based any decision soley on one measure, and I'm sure Mr Werner didn't either. I've seen that many brackets on much smaller trees that are still standing and probably will stand for many years yet...even without any improved care/conditions....however this chestnut was not a small tree and the targets are high/great....counter that with the fact that this tree is of extraordinary significance and you get a sense of the dilemma. Its not surprising that there is so much disagreement about the right course of action, and even more disagreement about the assessments.

Ekka · 24th November 2007, 08:49 PM

I personally feel that the placing of the probes and the users experience determine the accuracy of the picus.

I also believe that the banter about it's inaccuracies is spread a lot further than it's accuracies ... to the point that many of the published results are held in negative context by those not willing to either accept or pay for the technology. In simple words, all the good tests and accurate tests dont get the attention but the bad ones do.

What a lot of people have trouble with is life ending ... when is it time for the tree to go, when it's fallen? Or when with current diagnosis it's believed too hazardous to stay etc.

The pruning and reduction is only further detriment to the health of the tree, yes it reduces likelihood of blow over however reduces the trees vigour which in turn allows the fungus to spread easier. The cycle of decline.

Personally, pay ya respects and out she comes is my opinion, all things end eventually. But the counter argument is with careful monitoring and works it could be there another 30 years .... and then it comes out.

Bite it now, or bite it then, either way she's a dead duck.

Sean Freeman · 24th November 2007, 09:03 PM

Its always been my position that the people who live there should have been canvassed and given the best information about what state the tree was/is in and what options are open to its management felling included.

As is often the case (and you know only too well) the info we get on the outside so to speak is very poor and inaccurate..I have tried on four occaisions to get a response from Mr Werner but (understandably) he and his company are not interested in discussing the issues with someone living and working in Oz.

I am not saying that I know for certain 100% what is the right thing to do with the tree in its current condition...others who have visited the tree have emailed me both that it is beyond help, and that it could be conserved for much longer than the public statements of 10-20yrs..go figure?

I quess what frustrates me is that such an important tree could be so neglected for so long, allowed to get into the state it was in the late 90's then to have such damaging work done to it is really nuts! There are thankfully less and less Arborists who believe that to reduce the wind loading on a tree you must cut off the top 4m!! Sometimes as a profession we seem sadly obsessed with the chainsaw as the sole solution to all tree problems.

Maybe I'll get to see the tree in person late next year but I have the feeling it won't be there.

Ekka · 24th November 2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

There are thankfully less and less Arborists who believe that to reduce the wind loading on a tree you must cut off the top 4m!!

I think Mattheck is more responsible as a single person than any other walking the arb circuit for the reduction of trees.

Another would be Brudi.

Apparently in Germany the practice is rampant, reductions left right and center.

Attached please find a very good piece on this.

Sean Freeman · 24th November 2007, 09:44 PM

David is a good guy, though you'll find plenty who disagree (funny they're the same ones who have problems with me

)

He did try to discuss this very issue with Claus, but there was a major breakdown in communication....if memory serves me Claus had problems both understanding and speaking English on the topic which was somewhat disappointing.

Disagreemant and heated debate is good for our profession and industry, we all have big areas of common ground form which to start from, its in exploring the areas of difference, born often out of our different working experiences, climate tree species etc... that we can make advances in our own abilties to better mange trees.

Something Shigo said when he was out here in Sydney or Melbourne, referring to the need to keep studying and developing greater understanding of how trees deal with, grow and adapt to the massive range of environmental conditions they encounter in the urban forest....all of us tend to try to find one panecea, one model that fits all lazyness i quess, I don't believe there is one model as such and as an Arborist each problem, conflict I'm asked to deal with requires all of my careful attention...some aspects of the events surrounding the management of the Anne Frank chestnut do not seem to have passed that particular test in my opinion.

Ekka · 9th January 2008, 04:18 AM

Update on the Anne Frank Tree: Anne Frank tree can survive at least five more years_English_Xinhua

Quote:

2008-01-04

BRUSSELS, Jan. 4 (Xinhua) -- The horse chestnut tree which Anne Frank wrote about in her famous Second World War diary can survive another five to 15 years, according to tree experts, Dutch media reported Friday.

The Amsterdam city government and the Anne Frank Foundation, owner of the popular tourist attraction the Anne Frank House, want to cut down the 160-year old chestnut tree, saying it is seriously ill and poses a danger to the public and property.

But plans to fell the tree in December sparked nationwide anger, with many opponents saying the living testimony to the Jewish girl's story should not be destroyed so easily. A court decided later that the tree can stay pending further analysis.

The eight tree experts -- four representing the local council and four chosen by the tree protection foundation -- agreed that the tree has been attacked by fungus, but it can be kept alive for at least five more years and possibly as many as 15.

The cost of keeping the tree, including a steel support system, is estimated at some 10,000 euros a year.

Meanwhile, the Anne Frank House announced on Thursday that it received a record number of visitors in 2007.

More than one million people, mainly from the United States and Britain, visited the house on the Prinsengracht in Amsterdam where

Anne Frank and her family hid from the Nazis between June 1942 and August 1944.

23rd November 2007, 08:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Well, you know I always like to lift my own copy of things coz in years to come when links go dead ya got jack, so here's the video from one of Sean's links above about the 2005 reduction pruning on Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree. Around 4mins and 23mb WMV www.treeworld.info/video/annefranktree.wmv __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th November 2007, 05:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 672	Re: Anne Frank Tree INteresting "reduction pruning".... Wonder why it was done like that. Not much better than a lop job really. Any photos/video showing the structure/trunk issues they mention as being so bad? __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

24th November 2007, 06:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Have attached one of the Dutch reports and yes its in Dutch you can make reasonable sense out of it with auto translator, but I'm quessing you'll be more intersted in the two stem photos. The troubling and confusing tomographs are totally meaningless (to me) and I'm sorry but htat is my experience with picus generally....and yes I do accept some of you will have much better experiences of using that technology than me. vervolgonderzoek%20Anne%20Frankboom%202007%20-%20PFBA.pdf __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th November 2007, 07:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Yep thats pretty funny! For the translate just copy the section of text then open say Altavista bable and paste the text into the box select Dutch to English (ofcourse!!) and click, you can then copy that translated bit and put it into word then just work your way through the text....OR I COULD DO IT FOR YOU TREV!! NB tribe = stem, tribe foot = basal flare/buttress roots report one is the report i attached previously Auto translation of the Dutch reports.doc __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th November 2007, 08:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree The Ole Ganoderma Australae got it. From reading the report it appears to be down to 28% holding wood on the buttresses only and decay rate is accelerating, the tree is losing the fight. Obviously the concern is when will it fall, at current rates of decay they say by 2010 it's a goner. However what about wind forces etc between now and then? The black and brown areas of the picus are good wood, the green is affected yet has some strength. The blue and pink are hopeless decayed areas. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th November 2007, 08:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Hoping to show both reports to a Dutch speaker later this week and ask them to translate properly, hopefully some of the nuances lost by the machine may come out then. For me the picus is unconvincing and contradictory, but then have never based any decision soley on one measure, and I'm sure Mr Werner didn't either. I've seen that many brackets on much smaller trees that are still standing and probably will stand for many years yet...even without any improved care/conditions....however this chestnut was not a small tree and the targets are high/great....counter that with the fact that this tree is of extraordinary significance and you get a sense of the dilemma. Its not surprising that there is so much disagreement about the right course of action, and even more disagreement about the assessments. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th November 2007, 08:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree I personally feel that the placing of the probes and the users experience determine the accuracy of the picus. I also believe that the banter about it's inaccuracies is spread a lot further than it's accuracies ... to the point that many of the published results are held in negative context by those not willing to either accept or pay for the technology. In simple words, all the good tests and accurate tests dont get the attention but the bad ones do. What a lot of people have trouble with is life ending ... when is it time for the tree to go, when it's fallen? Or when with current diagnosis it's believed too hazardous to stay etc. The pruning and reduction is only further detriment to the health of the tree, yes it reduces likelihood of blow over however reduces the trees vigour which in turn allows the fungus to spread easier. The cycle of decline. Personally, pay ya respects and out she comes is my opinion, all things end eventually. But the counter argument is with careful monitoring and works it could be there another 30 years .... and then it comes out. Bite it now, or bite it then, either way she's a dead duck. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th November 2007, 09:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree Its always been my position that the people who live there should have been canvassed and given the best information about what state the tree was/is in and what options are open to its management felling included. As is often the case (and you know only too well) the info we get on the outside so to speak is very poor and inaccurate..I have tried on four occaisions to get a response from Mr Werner but (understandably) he and his company are not interested in discussing the issues with someone living and working in Oz. I am not saying that I know for certain 100% what is the right thing to do with the tree in its current condition...others who have visited the tree have emailed me both that it is beyond help, and that it could be conserved for much longer than the public statements of 10-20yrs..go figure? I quess what frustrates me is that such an important tree could be so neglected for so long, allowed to get into the state it was in the late 90's then to have such damaging work done to it is really nuts! There are thankfully less and less Arborists who believe that to reduce the wind loading on a tree you must cut off the top 4m!! Sometimes as a profession we seem sadly obsessed with the chainsaw as the sole solution to all tree problems. Maybe I'll get to see the tree in person late next year but I have the feeling it won't be there. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th November 2007, 09:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Anne Frank Horse Chestnut Tree David is a good guy, though you'll find plenty who disagree (funny they're the same ones who have problems with me) He did try to discuss this very issue with Claus, but there was a major breakdown in communication....if memory serves me Claus had problems both understanding and speaking English on the topic which was somewhat disappointing. Disagreemant and heated debate is good for our profession and industry, we all have big areas of common ground form which to start from, its in exploring the areas of difference, born often out of our different working experiences, climate tree species etc... that we can make advances in our own abilties to better mange trees. Something Shigo said when he was out here in Sydney or Melbourne, referring to the need to keep studying and developing greater understanding of how trees deal with, grow and adapt to the massive range of environmental conditions they encounter in the urban forest....all of us tend to try to find one panecea, one model that fits all lazyness i quess, I don't believe there is one model as such and as an Arborist each problem, conflict I'm asked to deal with requires all of my careful attention...some aspects of the events surrounding the management of the Anne Frank chestnut do not seem to have passed that particular test in my opinion. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran