Angled back cut| backcut| tree felling| back cuts

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 06:11 PM

Often you will see an angled back cut. You will never see it taught or printed as an acceptable method of felling.

The practice has continued and stumps like the one in the picture below is seen too often.

This thread is to sort the shit from the clay regarding this technique.

In page 2 of this thread the discussion came up, and there were some reasons given for it. Those posters may want to add their information to this thread now.

conventional figure-8

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 07:05 PM

Well, to get the ball rolling I'll import a couple of posts from that other thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Hang on, what difference does the angle back cut make then if it still has to pivot?

Are you saying that some how it prevents the saw bar getting jammed from the tree sitting on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by quercus

I'd have to agree with newguy on this. We do this all the time and it does work. It's just a case of simple mathematics. Whe the surface of the cut is angled, it is bigger and has more square inches. So the pressure per square inch is less then if the cut was horizontal. We also use it on tops, ekka, because indeed, like newguy says, it keeps the top from sliding away on the back side where the climber is. Tests have shown that 1200 kg per square centimeter is needed to pull a hinge on a oak tree apart in the vertical direction. So if the cut is angled the pulling force on the wood is much less then if it where horizontal and will therefore less easily break apart in the wrong direction. If a top of a pine gets hung up when falling down, you actually could saw through the hinge and the top would still slide off of the cut in the right direction. When using this on hung up tops, you do have to realize that sometimes the upper branches of the top come back to the tree you're working on when falling down.We've been using this technique hundreds of times, it does work, but one has the know the math and the mechanics of it before using it.

Ekka · 12th January 2008, 07:32 PM

In verification and response of what Quercus is saying I present a diagram. He says it's tough pulling wood apart, it's also tough compressing it to fail. The wood is strongest upon it's own axis.

In felling trees at ground level we are trying to get maximum strength, especially if we have hollow or decayed wood. Keeping in mind the model above you would agree then that a level hinge as displayed in the diagram below does 2 critical things.

1/ It carries the weight of the tree on the strongest axis.

2/ any force applied by wedging or even jacking is lifting the tree working the strongest axis.

There is less probability of failure this way, if the wind blows and it "sets back" then you have the force acting upon the fibres in the strongest way you can.

Now lets take a look at the angled back cut in the same situation.

What you'll see in the diagram is both the weight of the tree is now acting toward the weaker direction of the fibres and same when wedging. It could happen the fibre break and the tree slides down a bit pivots backward toward the cutter.

Also if the wind blows and you get sit back then it's also going to get force or leverage toward it's weaker axis.

There's also one other key point, it's difficult to get that cut right, level, even and the step height correct.

Now both Newguy18 and Quercus mention the use of this angled back cut for felling tops out of trees. The idea being, as he posted above, is that you get some barrier or ramp to prevent the butt coming back at you especially if it gets caught up in another tree. Now the step is supposed to do that anyway on a conventional back cut.

But hang on, he wants the hinge to break easier, the angled back cut is going to break sooner right?

Maybe, but why wouldn't you just have a thinner hinge from a conventional cut?

What about if it does get stuck with the traditional scarf (notch) and back cut if you do cut through the hinge then there's no ramp for the thing to slide off butt first (like a spear cut sort of).

So I present next diagram, and one that if you performed it on the ground felling it would be called a Humboldt. Perhaps have a slightly higher step too but this way you have a little better control and accuracy of your back cut.

Now I've felled a few tops and hollow trees and decayed trees etc and I can say that I dont do the angled thing. There's one thing I do with the angled thing though ... spear cuts, that's mainly on smaller stuff, mainly on branches not the verticle leader.

If there was a chance of the top getting caught in other vegetation whilst going over and getting stuck ... I'd go for the humboldt technique but seriously, haven't really had it happen and I dread it ever happening.

Sean Freeman · 12th January 2008, 09:58 PM

I think Eric has effectively covered all the important points relating to this angled back cut sometimes (incorrectly) called a sloven. Critical in all the negatives is the increased difficulty in making the backcut correctly meet the scarf, and the very real dangers in not doing so...and by meet I mean set up your hinge correctly. The angled backcut increases the risk of placing your back cut below the bottom cut of the scarf....not recommended. Yes in times past and with some loggers today still the arguement is put that it reduces the likelyhood of the stem coming back at you once the hinge breaks, but honestly controlled directional felling carried out by qualified experienced fellers makes this type of back cut outdated and unnecessary.

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 01:54 AM

I started useing it after having a rotten tree set back and shoot over backwards at me[thank god it was in the middle of the woods].i never had a problem lining up the cuts and when i use it aloft I make two opposing diagnols to the under cut to get a wide deep notch then I finish with an angled back cut at the same angle and cut it to about 3/8s of an inch for a hinge.if it would try and set back it"ll slide down into the rigging or ground however your doing it.in effect it works similar to a slice cut.I don't use it exclusivly only when the need arises.

JohN Dee · 13th January 2008, 10:52 AM

If you cut your scarf correctly, the branch/leader should not go anywhere - hence the use of a pull rope and in some cases wedges.

When I'm heading out a leader, I like to be on a 90* angle from the face and backcut. Again if you've cut your scarf correctly it's only going to go 1 of 2 ways back or forth.

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 10:58 AM

notch and back cut were perfect.It was completely hollow on the inside and the sapwood was really soft.It happened and I found something that i use on occasion and it works.

JohN Dee · 13th January 2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

notch and back cut were perfect.It was completely hollow on the inside and the sapwood was really soft.It happened and I found something that i use on occasion and it works.

Perhaps you should have compensated on the hinge then?

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 12:41 PM

I left about an inch of hinge wood[40"diameter].No wind and after I got the hinge down to the 1" mark it started to move so I thought good its going then it set back and I ran out of there real quick.After that I turned around and it was on the ground backwards.it was well balanced as far as I can tell[no lean].

Sean Freeman · 13th January 2008, 01:44 PM

Its always a good sensible practice when felling larger trees with adverse leans, weight distribution etc...even when there is no external evidence of hollows, rot etc... to put in a line as high as you can and have a control line as back up, should anything be found when cutting the scarf (front cut) or even during the back cut. On all our larger fells we always use wedges, very often have control lines and always go through a written risk assessment.

I'm sure you do but it bears repeating....always take tree felling seriously, always properly assess the job and go through the steps slowly and clearly in your head no skipping elements, ensure the fell zone is clear and will remain so, double check all your cuts....never NEVER stay at the stump plan for and use your escape route on every fell......Oh yes enjoy your tree felling!

bigshea13 · 13th January 2008, 01:53 PM

ive felled all sorts of trees in all sorts of situations. at the top or the base, gravity is the same. what ive seen is that if the tree happens to come back on you and it hollow, that angle created by the angled cut acts like a teeter and can flip the butt end into the air maybe even to the side vreating a potential hazard. as eric said the conventional and the humbolt done correctly will prevent kickback. another problem is that if for some crazy reasonthe feller needs to swing the cut {remove one half of hinge to cause it to tip to other side} they are unable to do so. if your using the angle cut to prevent kickback your going about felling all wrong. if your in the tree , cut higher and shorter to prevent the piece from lodging into another tree. dont rely on that angled piece thats withe the grain to prevent the top you cut from blasting back at you. on the ground an properly executed conventional will allow you the appropriate time to remove yourself from the danger area. if your still worried about kick back take the 5 min and tie off thebutt to the stump. i dont agree with the angle cut idea.

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 02:03 PM

i only use it seldomly in fact I've only used it3 times in 2 years only when I'm not sure if a conventional cut will hold.[like in rotten tops you can here every time you punch gaffs into to or critical situations you can't afford mistakes].i know many people don't agree with it but I like to leave without damage to a piece of property or myself.

bigshea13 · 13th January 2008, 02:28 PM

thats why you need to slow down and do it correctly. cut smaller pieces{even if it means snap cutting 12" pices} and use a tag line.

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 02:34 PM

You obviously get paid by the hour.I get paid when the job is done.Unless the tree has several targets I can't afford to go really small and slow.Just slow enough to be safe.I don't try and take the biggest pieces possible but I also don't take the smallest unless nessecary.I appreciate your input but when the need arises I use it.

bigshea13 · 13th January 2008, 02:43 PM

no amount of cash is worth my life but thanks for your observation.

Ekka · 13th January 2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

I started useing it after having a rotten tree set back and shoot over backwards at me[thank god it was in the middle of the woods].

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

If you cut your scarf correctly, the branch/leader should not go anywhere - hence the use of a pull rope and in some cases wedges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

notch and back cut were perfect.It was completely hollow on the inside and the sapwood was really soft.It happened and I found something that i use on occasion and it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

Perhaps you should have compensated on the hinge then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

I left about an inch of hinge wood[40"diameter].No wind and after I got the hinge down to the 1" mark it started to move so I thought good its going then it set back and I ran out of there real quick.After that I turned around and it was on the ground backwards.it was well balanced as far as I can tell[no lean].

There's some very important clues and lessons in these posts.

Firstly, 1" of hingewood on a 40" DBH tree is not 10%, 10% is recommended hinge thickness and is 4" so Newguy cut on a weak decayed timber down to 2.5% holding wood yet claims his notch and back cut were perfect!

He lost the tree out the back.

He now has conjured the idea that an angled back cut provides some security against this occurring without analysing the initial error.

Newguy18, if in that exact same scenario you did an angled cut you would have lost the tree sooner. You cannot compare your new methodology to that tree ... that tree is gone.

Here's some diagrams to help explain, however they are basically the same as diagrams I presented above but with forces opposite due to losing the tree backwards.

In the diagram immediately below you see the angled back cut failing, tree blown back or back weighted (whatever, doesn't matter it's how the forces work we are looking at)

-----------------------

Now to duplicate the scene for the normal backcut lets have a look at the forces in the diagram immediately below. Notice how the force are working the stronger axis.

Seriously, you are fooling yourself with snake oil theory with the angled back cut.

D Mc · 13th January 2008, 03:41 PM

New Guy, might want to let this one go because these guys are right. You are not going to help yourself with the angled back cut for the reasons you sited.

The only time I will use an angled back cut is like Ekka described for spearing tops in tight areas.

It should also be mentioned on the angled back cut if it does set back and you try to drive a wedge, the wood very likely will not hold and break out just as it is starting to do the work. I am referring to the back cut itself not the hinge. The reason for this is that the wood fibers are no longer aligned 90 degrees to the wedge and therefore cannot handle the weight.

Work fast but stay safe.

D Mc

newguy18 · 13th January 2008, 04:36 PM

Since I got more negative about it I guess i'll dump that technique mainly because I respect Ekka and know that he and many others here have been in this game a lot longer than me.

dannyboysfc · 13th January 2008, 06:15 PM

It would be great if you understood what these guys are saying to you though, the angled back cut thing could be a real danger.

Work safe

Ekka · 13th January 2008, 06:42 PM

Newguy18, back in 1999 I stopped doing the angled back cut when palm felling ... just never knew the science of proper felling and I used to think the same that the angled back cut ramp was like some big prop to prevent the tree going backwards.

But it's not the case, never had any failures or losses but learning back then was a lot harder as no internet, no arb college around here and books were borrowed from the library and fairly much aimed at gardeners.

But I persisted and learned why.

For the record I find this is a diagram if the thinking that goes on, this is what people think the angled back cut does ... but it's wrong for the reasons shown above.

reachtreeservice · 30th March 2008, 03:05 AM

Really great info in this thread.
Thanks for taking the time to compile and post it, Erik and everybody.

osb_mail · 5th April 2008, 06:04 PM

I wish I had something good to add most everything has been covered here I have used a angled back years ago but if sit and run it through your it just dont make sense .I now see no reason to use a angle back other than you dont know what the hell you are doing and it has worked before and it looks like it makes sense .I know guys that are farmer and such that swear by it but I cant get them to explain really how it helps because it does not . In reality you should not be making cuts that you would even think had a chance of sitting back on you .Also watch this video but dont take any of guys tips most are wrong Notching Theory for Felling a Tree : How to Cut Down a Tree Safely | ExpertVillage Videos

Ekka · 5th April 2008, 06:52 PM

Yes, I have noticed a lot of BULLSHIT coming out of EXPERTLESS VILLAGE ... beware that place!

osb_mail · 5th April 2008, 07:05 PM

This video was mentioned in another forum I think I watched it before I saw it there .Maybe it was opposite day when he filmed this supposed to do the opposite of what he says . Even the pull rope which I use a lot and is used so very wrong it is probably more dangerous than helpful come on use a throw bag to set the rope .Oh yeah what you guys say the proper height for a pull line compare to the height of the tree I was thinking like 60% to the highest strong point in the tree depending on the tree .Anybody got any percentage they use ?

JohN Dee · 5th April 2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osb_mail

Oh yeah what you guys say the proper height for a pull line compare to the height of the tree I was thinking like 60% to the highest strong point in the tree depending on the tree .Anybody got any percentage they use ?

To tell ya the truth mate, I go as high as I possibly can to harness the FULL amount of leverage the tree has to offer. When I say as high as possible I mean the highest point which is strong enough to withstand the pressure of pulling the tree over.

osb_mail · 5th April 2008, 07:19 PM

This guy is about 35 to 40 %of tree height I am with on the highest strong point that I can hit with a throw line without getting to mad .

Ekka · 5th April 2008, 07:26 PM

Lordy, I'm going out for a bite now but I started to watch that fools other videos there about how to fell and he sticks a rope up like 10' on a ladder!

It's gonna be a long night, and I registered and commented ... we'll see if the comments get published or that bush ranger will just keep his crap running.

sawsong · 5th April 2008, 08:41 PM

aparently his expert status is in mechanical systems but he has been felling trees for firewood for 30 years... wrongly it would seem

one of the main things i noticed on this video which may or may not be contraversial is his take two steps back. IMO it should be two back and at least one or two to the side. behind a cut tree is a danger zone, as is in front of it, and you should avoid where possible, being in either of those areas while it goes down.

a friend of my felling instructor sadly passed away when he put his felling cut in a tree, retired some 30 feet behind the tree but couldnt pull his saw out so left it in the cut rather than stand there fighting with it as the tree went over. the tree spat the saw and it flew the 30 some feet and smashed the fellow in the face.

when we did our assessment, if you got in those dangerzones, if you swapped sides of the tree to put in your back cut without leaving a suitable perimeter, you were toast, failed. It's kept me safe thus far

jim

Ekka · 5th April 2008, 10:08 PM

They should rename that place Village Idiots!

Watch the series of videos on tree felling, the guy is a full blown IDIOT. Drew Finn of Expert Village knows very little about much it appears, especially tree felling.

WARNING WARNING WARNING a site run by an idiot.

Bermy · 6th April 2008, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

This picture says it all...thanks for the visual aide!!!

12th January 2008, 09:58 PM	#4
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,164	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling I think Eric has effectively covered all the important points relating to this angled back cut sometimes (incorrectly) called a sloven. Critical in all the negatives is the increased difficulty in making the backcut correctly meet the scarf, and the very real dangers in not doing so...and by meet I mean set up your hinge correctly. The angled backcut increases the risk of placing your back cut below the bottom cut of the scarf....not recommended. Yes in times past and with some loggers today still the arguement is put that it reduces the likelyhood of the stem coming back at you once the hinge breaks, but honestly controlled directional felling carried out by qualified experienced fellers makes this type of back cut outdated and unnecessary. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran http://wanderingarborist.blogspot.com/ http://veterantreegroup.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/VeteranTreeGroup

13th January 2008, 01:54 AM	#5
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling I started useing it after having a rotten tree set back and shoot over backwards at me[thank god it was in the middle of the woods].i never had a problem lining up the cuts and when i use it aloft I make two opposing diagnols to the under cut to get a wide deep notch then I finish with an angled back cut at the same angle and cut it to about 3/8s of an inch for a hinge.if it would try and set back it"ll slide down into the rigging or ground however your doing it.in effect it works similar to a slice cut.I don't use it exclusivly only when the need arises. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 10:52 AM	#6
JohN Dee Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 925	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling If you cut your scarf correctly, the branch/leader should not go anywhere - hence the use of a pull rope and in some cases wedges. When I'm heading out a leader, I like to be on a 90* angle from the face and backcut. Again if you've cut your scarf correctly it's only going to go 1 of 2 ways back or forth. __________________ The bigger the dreams, the smaller the competition Red : Green : Blue

13th January 2008, 10:58 AM	#7
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling notch and back cut were perfect.It was completely hollow on the inside and the sapwood was really soft.It happened and I found something that i use on occasion and it works. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 12:41 PM	#9
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling I left about an inch of hinge wood[40"diameter].No wind and after I got the hinge down to the 1" mark it started to move so I thought good its going then it set back and I ran out of there real quick.After that I turned around and it was on the ground backwards.it was well balanced as far as I can tell[no lean]. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 01:44 PM	#10
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,164	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling Its always a good sensible practice when felling larger trees with adverse leans, weight distribution etc...even when there is no external evidence of hollows, rot etc... to put in a line as high as you can and have a control line as back up, should anything be found when cutting the scarf (front cut) or even during the back cut. On all our larger fells we always use wedges, very often have control lines and always go through a written risk assessment. I'm sure you do but it bears repeating....always take tree felling seriously, always properly assess the job and go through the steps slowly and clearly in your head no skipping elements, ensure the fell zone is clear and will remain so, double check all your cuts....never NEVER stay at the stump plan for and use your escape route on every fell......Oh yes enjoy your tree felling! __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran http://wanderingarborist.blogspot.com/ http://veterantreegroup.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/VeteranTreeGroup

13th January 2008, 01:53 PM	#11
bigshea13 Former Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: super 8 motels Posts: 387	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling ive felled all sorts of trees in all sorts of situations. at the top or the base, gravity is the same. what ive seen is that if the tree happens to come back on you and it hollow, that angle created by the angled cut acts like a teeter and can flip the butt end into the air maybe even to the side vreating a potential hazard. as eric said the conventional and the humbolt done correctly will prevent kickback. another problem is that if for some crazy reasonthe feller needs to swing the cut {remove one half of hinge to cause it to tip to other side} they are unable to do so. if your using the angle cut to prevent kickback your going about felling all wrong. if your in the tree , cut higher and shorter to prevent the piece from lodging into another tree. dont rely on that angled piece thats withe the grain to prevent the top you cut from blasting back at you. on the ground an properly executed conventional will allow you the appropriate time to remove yourself from the danger area. if your still worried about kick back take the 5 min and tie off thebutt to the stump. i dont agree with the angle cut idea.

13th January 2008, 02:03 PM	#12
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling i only use it seldomly in fact I've only used it3 times in 2 years only when I'm not sure if a conventional cut will hold.[like in rotten tops you can here every time you punch gaffs into to or critical situations you can't afford mistakes].i know many people don't agree with it but I like to leave without damage to a piece of property or myself. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 02:28 PM	#13
bigshea13 Former Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: super 8 motels Posts: 387	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling thats why you need to slow down and do it correctly. cut smaller pieces{even if it means snap cutting 12" pices} and use a tag line.

13th January 2008, 02:34 PM	#14
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling You obviously get paid by the hour.I get paid when the job is done.Unless the tree has several targets I can't afford to go really small and slow.Just slow enough to be safe.I don't try and take the biggest pieces possible but I also don't take the smallest unless nessecary.I appreciate your input but when the need arises I use it. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 02:43 PM	#15
bigshea13 Former Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: super 8 motels Posts: 387	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling no amount of cash is worth my life but thanks for your observation.

13th January 2008, 03:41 PM	#17
D Mc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 70	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling New Guy, might want to let this one go because these guys are right. You are not going to help yourself with the angled back cut for the reasons you sited. The only time I will use an angled back cut is like Ekka described for spearing tops in tight areas. It should also be mentioned on the angled back cut if it does set back and you try to drive a wedge, the wood very likely will not hold and break out just as it is starting to do the work. I am referring to the back cut itself not the hinge. The reason for this is that the wood fibers are no longer aligned 90 degrees to the wedge and therefore cannot handle the weight. Work fast but stay safe. D Mc

13th January 2008, 04:36 PM	#18
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling Since I got more negative about it I guess i'll dump that technique mainly because I respect Ekka and know that he and many others here have been in this game a lot longer than me. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

13th January 2008, 06:15 PM	#19
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 169	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling It would be great if you understood what these guys are saying to you though, the angled back cut thing could be a real danger. Work safe

30th March 2008, 03:05 AM	#21
reachtreeservice Sappling Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 28	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling Really great info in this thread. Thanks for taking the time to compile and post it, Erik and everybody.

5th April 2008, 06:04 PM	#22
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 222	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts I wish I had something good to add most everything has been covered here I have used a angled back years ago but if sit and run it through your it just dont make sense .I now see no reason to use a angle back other than you dont know what the hell you are doing and it has worked before and it looks like it makes sense .I know guys that are farmer and such that swear by it but I cant get them to explain really how it helps because it does not . In reality you should not be making cuts that you would even think had a chance of sitting back on you .Also watch this video but dont take any of guys tips most are wrong Notching Theory for Felling a Tree : How to Cut Down a Tree Safely \| ExpertVillage Videos

5th April 2008, 06:52 PM	#23
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts Yes, I have noticed a lot of BULLSHIT coming out of EXPERTLESS VILLAGE ... beware that place! __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

5th April 2008, 07:05 PM	#24
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 222	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts This video was mentioned in another forum I think I watched it before I saw it there .Maybe it was opposite day when he filmed this supposed to do the opposite of what he says . Even the pull rope which I use a lot and is used so very wrong it is probably more dangerous than helpful come on use a throw bag to set the rope .Oh yeah what you guys say the proper height for a pull line compare to the height of the tree I was thinking like 60% to the highest strong point in the tree depending on the tree .Anybody got any percentage they use ?

5th April 2008, 07:19 PM	#26
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 222	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts This guy is about 35 to 40 %of tree height I am with on the highest strong point that I can hit with a throw line without getting to mad .

5th April 2008, 07:26 PM	#27
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts Lordy, I'm going out for a bite now but I started to watch that fools other videos there about how to fell and he sticks a rope up like 10' on a ladder! It's gonna be a long night, and I registered and commented ... we'll see if the comments get published or that bush ranger will just keep his crap running. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

5th April 2008, 08:41 PM	#28
sawsong Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lincs/Leeds England Posts: 74	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts aparently his expert status is in mechanical systems but he has been felling trees for firewood for 30 years... wrongly it would seem one of the main things i noticed on this video which may or may not be contraversial is his take two steps back. IMO it should be two back and at least one or two to the side. behind a cut tree is a danger zone, as is in front of it, and you should avoid where possible, being in either of those areas while it goes down. a friend of my felling instructor sadly passed away when he put his felling cut in a tree, retired some 30 feet behind the tree but couldnt pull his saw out so left it in the cut rather than stand there fighting with it as the tree went over. the tree spat the saw and it flew the 30 some feet and smashed the fellow in the face. when we did our assessment, if you got in those dangerzones, if you swapped sides of the tree to put in your back cut without leaving a suitable perimeter, you were toast, failed. It's kept me safe thus far jim

5th April 2008, 10:08 PM	#29
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Angled back cut\| backcut\| tree felling\| back cuts They should rename that place Village Idiots! Watch the series of videos on tree felling, the guy is a full blown IDIOT. Drew Finn of Expert Village knows very little about much it appears, especially tree felling. WARNING WARNING WARNING a site run by an idiot. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

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