Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work

Ekka · 23rd October 2007, 06:17 PM

Just bit of a poll to see what you use - prefer.

I personally use steel.

All attachment points on my harness are steel, whether it be a phobia or otherwise I feel steel is more reliable, durable and can take a hit from a saw or branch better than alloy, yeah, I trust them more. However I am aware that the old "if you drop an alloy biner throw it out" is all BS too.

I'll have to find that info again but basically modern alloy biners do take a beating and there was a comparison case. Oh well, start researching again.

rangitata · 23rd October 2007, 11:50 PM

I always use alloy for my personal climbing system, But steel for any type of rigging. That way thay can never be mistaken.

Mike

Sean Freeman · 23rd October 2007, 11:50 PM

I voted alloy quess its due mostly to coming from a rock climbing background have trusted my life to alloy for years so holds no problem for me. Alloy for life support and steel for rigging.

TreeCo · 24th October 2007, 12:18 AM

Alloy for all of my climbing.

I have a few old military steel non locking biners I use on a zip line or for a false crotch for lowering. If I need a heavy piece of rigging gear that opens I use a shackel also called a clevis.

Quintrex · 24th October 2007, 12:58 AM

Alloy for climbing as well, steel for rigging.
I was taught that steel should be discarded if dropped as well, but that's impractical in our game.

Ace Master · 24th October 2007, 07:15 AM

All STEEL for climbing and rigging, much stronger but i have bent both steel and alloy before and the weight is'nt a issue for me, lucky if i use 4 carabiners up a tree at one time. For larger rigging we use the shackels.

treestyle · 25th October 2007, 04:19 AM

Steel for both rigging and climbing.

a_lopa · 25th October 2007, 05:31 AM

All steel and 95% of them stubai screw gate,the one you can "see" are open or shut..

JayD · 25th October 2007, 05:42 AM

Steel for Climbing Screw gates. We had a triple lock fail on us while climbing, Alloys for light weight attachements,Rated Shackles for re-directs. When we havent got a convienent craneing fork.
That's me Done!

All The Best
JayD

Ekka · 25th October 2007, 05:42 AM

I'm an all steel but my rigging ones are screw gates and life line etc is twist lock (which I really dont trust).

George Hayduke · 25th October 2007, 08:53 PM

The ONLY screw gate biners that I have EVER had open were Stubais. That is back when I used them on the end of my climbing line for tie-ins. Then I shifted to using Black Diamond SuperLocks. This is a generation or two before autolockers were on the market.

There is no credible reason to fear aluminum biners for life support. If they pass visual inspection they are good to go. Not words from George...words from the Wizard of Iron.

TrevMcRev · 26th October 2007, 03:36 AM

I were on stubai steel screwgates for years. ( a 1cm piece of rubber hose stops em coming undone) I think more often people forget to do em up rather than them come undone though.

Found some alloy autolock ones im happy with but cant recall brand

Auot locks can not shut properly too though. Only takes a bit of sap or bark.

ALWAYS make it visual when you attach anything you depend on. Hearing a snap aint good enough.

Steel only for rigging.

JayD · 26th October 2007, 04:01 AM

Yeah my triple lock spat it's black spring/tab the one that snaps it shut, I picked up on it during a change over, It just didn't snap shut,as I listen for that then I visually check it, As you blokes know I am a Groudie and John does all the climbing, Well I have been learning to technicly climb, I mean this could have been enought to stop you from climbing if you were this way inclined, Me I just taged and baged it and reported it to the distribitor and sent it back for screw gates of a better brand, That's how it affected me I will never use anything but screw gates from now on, I was lucky it wasn't a major failure, But bad enought for a new climber learning to trust his gear!
JayD

redstree · 5th November 2007, 06:57 PM

Rock climbers and cavers(spelunkers) have been safely using alloy 'biners for years. They do not even use double or triple locking ones. I figure we as arborists are at least as bright as they are. I feel very comfortable climbing on alloy.

I try to tell my customers alloy for personal protection, steel for rigging. That way they will not confuse the two. As for retiring a 'biner I recommend that if there is any question about the safety of any piece it is best to discard it. Cheap insurance if you ask me.

bigshea13 · 6th November 2007, 11:13 AM

thats exactly how i think

fatkoala · 6th November 2007, 02:58 PM

alloy for climbing steel for rigging for me too, I like the auto locks, I just make sure I see them them close rather than hear them close

23rd October 2007, 06:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Just bit of a poll to see what you use - prefer. I personally use steel. All attachment points on my harness are steel, whether it be a phobia or otherwise I feel steel is more reliable, durable and can take a hit from a saw or branch better than alloy, yeah, I trust them more. However I am aware that the old "if you drop an alloy biner throw it out" is all BS too. I'll have to find that info again but basically modern alloy biners do take a beating and there was a comparison case. Oh well, start researching again. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

23rd October 2007, 11:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
rangitata Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 64	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I always use alloy for my personal climbing system, But steel for any type of rigging. That way thay can never be mistaken. Mike

23rd October 2007, 11:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,868	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I voted alloy quess its due mostly to coming from a rock climbing background have trusted my life to alloy for years so holds no problem for me. Alloy for life support and steel for rigging. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

24th October 2007, 12:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 267	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Alloy for all of my climbing. I have a few old military steel non locking biners I use on a zip line or for a false crotch for lowering. If I need a heavy piece of rigging gear that opens I use a shackel also called a clevis.

24th October 2007, 12:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
Quintrex Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 560	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Alloy for climbing as well, steel for rigging. I was taught that steel should be discarded if dropped as well, but that's impractical in our game.

24th October 2007, 07:15 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ace Master Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia, Vic, Melbourne Posts: 307	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work All STEEL for climbing and rigging, much stronger but i have bent both steel and alloy before and the weight is'nt a issue for me, lucky if i use 4 carabiners up a tree at one time. For larger rigging we use the shackels. __________________ The Mt Dandenong Ranges Tree Specialists

25th October 2007, 04:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 124	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Steel for both rigging and climbing.

25th October 2007, 05:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
a_lopa Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 992	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work All steel and 95% of them stubai screw gate,the one you can "see" are open or shut.. __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory

25th October 2007, 05:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,166	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Steel for Climbing Screw gates. We had a triple lock fail on us while climbing, Alloys for light weight attachements,Rated Shackles for re-directs. When we havent got a convienent craneing fork. That's me Done! All The Best JayD __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

25th October 2007, 05:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I'm an all steel but my rigging ones are screw gates and life line etc is twist lock (which I really dont trust). __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

25th October 2007, 08:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
George Hayduke Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 92	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work The ONLY screw gate biners that I have EVER had open were Stubais. That is back when I used them on the end of my climbing line for tie-ins. Then I shifted to using Black Diamond SuperLocks. This is a generation or two before autolockers were on the market. There is no credible reason to fear aluminum biners for life support. If they pass visual inspection they are good to go. Not words from George...words from the Wizard of Iron.

26th October 2007, 03:36 AM	#12 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 973	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I were on stubai steel screwgates for years. ( a 1cm piece of rubber hose stops em coming undone) I think more often people forget to do em up rather than them come undone though. Found some alloy autolock ones im happy with but cant recall brand Auot locks can not shut properly too though. Only takes a bit of sap or bark. ALWAYS make it visual when you attach anything you depend on. Hearing a snap aint good enough. Steel only for rigging. __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

26th October 2007, 04:01 AM	#13 (permalink)
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,166	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Yeah my triple lock spat it's black spring/tab the one that snaps it shut, I picked up on it during a change over, It just didn't snap shut,as I listen for that then I visually check it, As you blokes know I am a Groudie and John does all the climbing, Well I have been learning to technicly climb, I mean this could have been enought to stop you from climbing if you were this way inclined, Me I just taged and baged it and reported it to the distribitor and sent it back for screw gates of a better brand, That's how it affected me I will never use anything but screw gates from now on, I was lucky it wasn't a major failure, But bad enought for a new climber learning to trust his gear! JayD __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

5th November 2007, 06:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
redstree Sappling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 23	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Rock climbers and cavers(spelunkers) have been safely using alloy 'biners for years. They do not even use double or triple locking ones. I figure we as arborists are at least as bright as they are. I feel very comfortable climbing on alloy. I try to tell my customers alloy for personal protection, steel for rigging. That way they will not confuse the two. As for retiring a 'biner I recommend that if there is any question about the safety of any piece it is best to discard it. Cheap insurance if you ask me. __________________ Drive a MINI, the most fun you can have with your trousers on.

6th November 2007, 11:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work thats exactly how i think

6th November 2007, 02:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
fatkoala Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mildura Posts: 34	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work alloy for climbing steel for rigging for me too, I like the auto locks, I just make sure I see them them close rather than hear them close