Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work

Eric Frei

Just bit of a poll to see what you use - prefer.

I personally use steel.

All attachment points on my harness are steel, whether it be a phobia or otherwise I feel steel is more reliable, durable and can take a hit from a saw or branch better than alloy, yeah, I trust them more. However I am aware that the old "if you drop an alloy biner throw it out" is all BS too.

I'll have to find that info again but basically modern alloy biners do take a beating and there was a comparison case. Oh well, start researching again.

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rangitata

I always use alloy for my personal climbing system, But steel for any type of rigging. That way thay can never be mistaken.

Mike

Sean Freeman

I voted alloy quess its due mostly to coming from a rock climbing background have trusted my life to alloy for years so holds no problem for me. Alloy for life support and steel for rigging.

TreeCo

Alloy for all of my climbing.

I have a few old military steel non locking biners I use on a zip line or for a false crotch for lowering. If I need a heavy piece of rigging gear that opens I use a shackel also called a clevis.

Steve Tipton

Alloy for climbing as well, steel for rigging.
I was taught that steel should be discarded if dropped as well, but that's impractical in our game.

Ace Master

All STEEL for climbing and rigging, much stronger but i have bent both steel and alloy before and the weight is'nt a issue for me, lucky if i use 4 carabiners up a tree at one time. For larger rigging we use the shackels.

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treestyle

Steel for both rigging and climbing.

Drouin Tree Service

All steel and 95% of them stubai screw gate,the one you can "see" are open or shut..

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Jeff Darby

Steel for Climbing Screw gates. We had a triple lock fail on us while climbing, Alloys for light weight attachements,Rated Shackles for re-directs. When we havent got a convienent craneing fork.
That's me Done!
All The Best
JayD

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Eric Frei

I'm an all steel but my rigging ones are screw gates and life line etc is twist lock (which I really dont trust).

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George Hayduke

The ONLY screw gate biners that I have EVER had open were Stubais. That is back when I used them on the end of my climbing line for tie-ins. Then I shifted to using Black Diamond SuperLocks. This is a generation or two before autolockers were on the market.

There is no credible reason to fear aluminum biners for life support. If they pass visual inspection they are good to go. Not words from George...words from the Wizard of Iron.

TrevMcRev

I were on stubai steel screwgates for years. ( a 1cm piece of rubber hose stops em coming undone) I think more often people forget to do em up rather than them come undone though.

Found some alloy autolock ones im happy with but cant recall brand

Auot locks can not shut properly too though. Only takes a bit of sap or bark.

ALWAYS make it visual when you attach anything you depend on. Hearing a snap aint good enough.

Steel only for rigging.

Jeff Darby

Yeah my triple lock spat it's black spring/tab the one that snaps it shut, I picked up on it during a change over, It just didn't snap shut,as I listen for that then I visually check it, As you blokes know I am a Groudie and John does all the climbing, Well I have been learning to technicly climb, I mean this could have been enought to stop you from climbing if you were this way inclined, Me I just taged and baged it and reported it to the distribitor and sent it back for screw gates of a better brand, That's how it affected me I will never use anything but screw gates from now on, I was lucky it wasn't a major failure, But bad enought for a new climber learning to trust his gear!
JayD

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redstree

Rock climbers and cavers(spelunkers) have been safely using alloy 'biners for years. They do not even use double or triple locking ones. I figure we as arborists are at least as bright as they are. I feel very comfortable climbing on alloy.

I try to tell my customers alloy for personal protection, steel for rigging. That way they will not confuse the two. As for retiring a 'biner I recommend that if there is any question about the safety of any piece it is best to discard it. Cheap insurance if you ask me.

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bigshea13

thats exactly how i think

Sunraysia Tree Solutions

alloy for climbing steel for rigging for me too, I like the auto locks, I just make sure I see them them close rather than hear them close

rangitata

I have got into the habit of having all of my "Personal Climbing krabs" which are on my harness, of all having different closing actions ie... ball lock, screw gate, triple lock.
That way I have to check visually on what type i am using and if it is locked, just a personal way of reducing complacancy.

Mike

shaggs

Steel all the way for climbing and rigging. Always "clip.lock.squeeze". All exactly the same so they all feel and act the same.
Keep my personal ones totally separate and look after them, and NEVER loan them out. cheers

newguy18

I use a steel screw gate for climbing that way I can make sure it is screwed shut and stays shut.

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Therrin

Like Sean, I came into this field from being rescue-trained high ropes course and rock climbing instructor, instructor. (lol)

When Ekka mentioned that I should post on this topic with regards to a new 'biner I purchased, I thought I'd mention something that I can see
Sean and others have commented on already.

I use aluminum (alloy) for PPE (mostly), and only steel for rigging. All of my rigging 'biners are screw-gate. I used to be a "triple-lock" fan, except most triple lockers tend to gunk up inside and stick at some point. This is usually easily remedied by using WD40, which is applicable on most any stuck biner as a first attack. And yes, even though alot of stuck biners can be fixed, I personally find it a bit bothersome. Especially when my screw gates are still sloggin away. ;-)

I used to be a "steel only" fanatic, trying to use it as much as possible. This is a common concept with me though, as I tend to over-engineer alot of stuff.

I've learned the mistakes of logic like that though. Most of the rock climbers in here are probably familiar with "aid climbing", which is a specific form of rock climbing specifically using placed-aid pieces to hold body weight as the only way of traversing the rockface. This is gear-intensive requiring racks of gear, dozens of biners and all that fun stuff.

After years of my "steel only' fanatic streak, I noticed that all of my avid climber friends who used alloy only, were still alive and kickin. Eventually I realized that switching almost completely over to alloy caused significant weight reduction (duh!), that you could feel immediately. And most scenarios in rock climbing don't involve forces to the magnitude that would require steel's use. (exceptions included for things like tyroleans, lead falls, etc).

And to those of you who say "in my harness I use steel hardware only".....
the first 4 of my 5 years of tree climbing was accomplished using a rock climbing harness, 1" & 2" tubular webbing straps used for everything from homemade lobster claws to multiple position lanyards to a type of flipline. That old harness was just sewn nylon and polymer gear loops, with a *sewn nylon loop* as the main tie-in point. You see them in rock climbing all the time, they work great.

I wouldn't suggest one for tree work, but just to show by means of comparison.
The working difference between using alloy hardware specifically in your harness (tie-ins, D's, etc) as opposed to steel, requires an excessive enough amount of force, that it would be the last thing on your mind if you "were ever in that situation where it mattered". Steel is more prone to rust as well.

But I love it for rigging =) I recently just purchased some new Omega steel screw-locking biners. After having used them only twice, I'm already ordering more. They're comfortable to use, have wide gate openings (I got mine around both of my rear-handled saw's rear handles). And the long axis is rated at 72kn. That's a considerable jump from my 50kn steel biners.

They're called Omega Pacific 1/2" Steel 'D' NFPA.

Omega Pacific 1/2" Steel 'D' NFPA Carabiner from KarstSports.com

For aluminum screw-lock I prefer the Omega Pacific HMS Jake screw-lock. The gate is formed with a slight twist allowing it to open just to the side of the spine, giving a larger opening.

Omega Pacific HMS Jake Screw Lok from KarstSports.com

Standard ovals and D's for most else.

(my avatar picture is the second tree I ever climbed for a TD)

Tree Machine

Mmmmmmm.....steel. We need more in stainless.

Eric Frei

You'd think for what we pay for harnesses they be stainless D's!

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shaggs

TM
Stainless crabs are out there. I think i've seen them mainly in boat equipment shops.

franz nel

Are you guys all smarter than me or what? In spite of taking great care I continually find myself loading biners in the lateral direction. Why not use malions (scuse my spelling mates) or shackles or rings permanently on slings. al for lifeline and steel for rigging I know it sounds crazy and means you must thread the end of the rope, a bit slower than snapping, but all the failures mentioned would not have occurred. I also agree that the double or triple locking biners are a problem - the only 2 I have ever owned locked shut with a minor bump on the housing - and had to be dumped long before they should have been.

Steve Tipton

Therrin, those 1/2" carabiners would cost you $80 or more in Aus.
For heavier rigging, I use crane style snap hooks with webbing slings, similar to the method on Eric's video "knotless rigging".
Smaller stuff is rigged on 50kn steel 'biners.

Eric Frei

$59 here Omega Steel Karabiner - KA264

But here they're $30
National Height Safety & Solutions

Are they the same biner though as models seems different but they look the same?

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Therrin

They are the same.... one one, the screw is unscrewed slightly lower.
If the color looks different, it is because of the "goldish" tinting look in the steel with the lighting.

So, lets see.... how much would it cost for me to ship you guys a 5 lb box of "stuff" ?

Oh, if anyone's interested in *actually* checking, I live in Lancaster, California. Cheers

redstree

Kong made some S.S. 'biners but they are down rated from a steel 'biner. Apparently the tensile strength of the S.S. alloy that they use is rated below the regular steel. 35Kn vs 50Kn.

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shaggs

Was only recently shown the advantages of the offset screw gate carabiner as well. Luv em.
I think Ekka shows one in one of his vids too.

Therrin

I really can't say that I've had any trouble with my steel biners, as far as rusting and such goes. They're of course prone to it, but so far have shown excellently that they resist it, and some of them are up to 12 years old...

For what purpose would you need SS biners?