Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work

Ekka · 13th November 2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintrex

Therrin, those 1/2" carabiners would cost you $80 or more in Aus.

$59 here Omega Steel Karabiner - KA264

But here they're $30
National Height Safety & Solutions

Are they the same biner though as models seems different but they look the same?

Therrin · 14th November 2007, 12:32 AM

They are the same.... one one, the screw is unscrewed slightly lower.
If the color looks different, it is because of the "goldish" tinting look in the steel with the lighting.

So, lets see.... how much would it cost for me to ship you guys a 5 lb box of "stuff" ?

Oh, if anyone's interested in *actually* checking, I live in Lancaster, California. Cheers

redstree · 15th November 2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Mmmmmmm.....steel. We need more in stainless.

Kong made some S.S. 'biners but they are down rated from a steel 'biner. Apparently the tensile strength of the S.S. alloy that they use is rated below the regular steel. 35Kn vs 50Kn.

shaggs · 15th November 2007, 04:32 PM

Was only recently shown the advantages of the offset screw gate carabiner as well. Luv em.
I think Ekka shows one in one of his vids too.

Therrin · 16th November 2007, 12:11 AM

I really can't say that I've had any trouble with my steel biners, as far as rusting and such goes. They're of course prone to it, but so far have shown excellently that they resist it, and some of them are up to 12 years old...

For what purpose would you need SS biners?

Ekka · 16th November 2007, 12:23 AM

I think a few guys might have surface rust issues from the weather they work in.

Mine are OK but shiny would be nice too.

JohN Dee · 16th November 2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

$59 here Omega Steel Karabiner - KA264

But here they're $30
National Height Safety & Solutions

Are they the same biner though as models seems different but they look the same?

We paid $48 for our one at SRTAustralia/Onrope at Padstow.

I use the steel triple locks for climbing. I know i've rigged with karabiners before, but isn't it true that karabiners arnt rated for shockloading?

Tree Machine · 16th November 2007, 08:57 PM

Ratings are measures in force. 10 Kn (2,250 lb) hanging static on a line is the same force as a dropped load of X which accelerates and whose deceleration results in a 10 Kn force. How the force is applied may be different, but if the resultant force is the same, 10 Kn is 10 Kn. Ratings are designated to tell you a caribiner or scaffold hook or Maillon Rapide will stand forces up to that rating. So technically, yes, they are force rated and thus rated for static or impact force.

I use Kong Stainless slideline biners for light rigging. I don't know why I want other stainless biners.... the responsible explanation is that I'm addicted to climbing hardware. No real good reason, other than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franz nel

Are you guys all smarter than me or what? In spite of taking great care I continually find myself loading biners in the lateral direction.

We're no smarter. Just different ways to deal with that situation. Keeping the caribiner oriented in one direction, so it can't rotate, very, very important.

Quite easy to deal with, using spliced eyes or eyed terminations. If you tie bulky knots and drop a biner onto that, you're limited. For permanent ends, if you do your own, create a small eye, that's one way. Or you can Awl a single stitch through the eye to constrict and tighten the eye around the biner. Or take a broccoli band (fat, short rubber band), give it a loop-over over the terminated eye, stretch, twist, loop-over again. This will squeeze the eye. Insert biner. Surgical tubing, like that used on the big shot, cut a 1-2 cm long piece. Spread and open it up. Insert the eye through it, release the tubing around the eye.

There ya go Franz Nel. There are also stainless steel 'traps', plastic traps, and leather traps from most Arborist supply, all designed to hold a caribiner in the proper orientation and keep it from flipping. Lateral loading bad, as we all know. Try one of the ideas above, I think you'll have great results.

a_lopa · 16th November 2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

$59 here Omega Steel Karabiner - KA264

But here they're $30
National Height Safety & Solutions

Are they the same biner though as models seems different but they look the same?

Thanks for the link ekka ill be buying a few of those..

newguy18 · 16th November 2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Ratings are measures in force. 10 Kn (2,250 lb) hanging static on a line is the same force as a dropped load of X which accelerates and whose deceleration results in a 10 Kn force. How the force is applied may be different, but if the resultant force is the same, 10 Kn is 10 Kn. Ratings are designated to tell you a caribiner or scaffold hook or Maillon Rapide will stand forces up to that rating. So technically, yes, they are force rated and thus rated for static or impact force.

I use Kong Stainless slideline biners for light rigging. I don't know why I want other stainless biners.... the responsible explanation is that I'm addicted to climbing hardware. No real good reason, other than that.

We're no smarter. Just different ways to deal with that situation. Keeping the caribiner oriented in one direction, so it can't rotate, very, very important.

Quite easy to deal with, using spliced eyes or eyed terminations. If you tie bulky knots and drop a biner onto that, you're limited. For permanent ends, if you do your own, create a small eye, that's one way. Or you can Awl a single stitch through the eye to constrict and tighten the eye around the biner. Or take a broccoli band (fat, short rubber band), give it a loop-over over the terminated eye, stretch, twist, loop-over again. This will squeeze the eye. Insert biner. Surgical tubing, like that used on the big shot, cut a 1-2 cm long piece. Spread and open it up. Insert the eye through it, release the tubing around the eye.

There ya go Franz Nel. There are also stainless steel 'traps', plastic traps, and leather traps from most Arborist supply, all designed to hold a caribiner in the proper orientation and keep it from flipping. Lateral loading bad, as we all know. Try one of the ideas above, I think you'll have great results.

I thought he was talking about the biner for his split tail.Whati do is use both my climb line and split tail on the same biner but i've known some to connect the two biners with a quick link.Personally when the split tail biner side loads it is when you pull on your main line so when you advance your hitch the biner returns to normal so I don't know if I'd worry about it too much.

Therrin · 18th November 2007, 01:22 AM

I've never had lateral loading problems.... though alot of the rigging biners I use are D's... as in the shape. It helps to align the direction of pull along the spine's axis.

Since I don't have that problem, I'm not entirely savvy as to what you blokes mean, if I'm complicating the issue...

Some biners are made with lateral stanchions and such which don't allow associated biners or lines to move away from vertical axis loading.

Ekka · 18th November 2007, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Whati do is use both my climb line and split tail on the same biner but i've known some to connect the two biners with a quick link.

That's what I do, 1 biner, simple. The lifeline is double fishtail tied then the split tail just slots in, however new ANSI standards say they should be tight on the biner and then the split tail should be either tight spliced or girth hitched ... here in lies the problem with one biner for girth hitching the 13mm dia split tail.

It aint gonna happen, not enough room. So spliced split tail are the go.

But for me spliced split tails not so good as the taper in the splice tends to stop me getting close up cinched. In palms I may have to cinch up around fronds directly in front of me, the taper of the splice means it wont bite, the prussik just slides.

Arghhh, I'll live with the cross loading fear and check on it ... hence why I feel screw gates are safer.

14th November 2007, 12:32 AM	#27 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work They are the same.... one one, the screw is unscrewed slightly lower. If the color looks different, it is because of the "goldish" tinting look in the steel with the lighting. So, lets see.... how much would it cost for me to ship you guys a 5 lb box of "stuff" ? Oh, if anyone's interested in actually checking, I live in Lancaster, California. Cheers __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

15th November 2007, 04:32 PM	#29 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work Was only recently shown the advantages of the offset screw gate carabiner as well. Luv em. I think Ekka shows one in one of his vids too.

16th November 2007, 12:11 AM	#30 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I really can't say that I've had any trouble with my steel biners, as far as rusting and such goes. They're of course prone to it, but so far have shown excellently that they resist it, and some of them are up to 12 years old... For what purpose would you need SS biners? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

16th November 2007, 12:23 AM	#31 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,933	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I think a few guys might have surface rust issues from the weather they work in. Mine are OK but shiny would be nice too. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th November 2007, 01:22 AM	#36 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: Alloy vs steel carabiners karabiners for tree work I've never had lateral loading problems.... though alot of the rigging biners I use are D's... as in the shape. It helps to align the direction of pull along the spine's axis. Since I don't have that problem, I'm not entirely savvy as to what you blokes mean, if I'm complicating the issue... Some biners are made with lateral stanchions and such which don't allow associated biners or lines to move away from vertical axis loading. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

View Poll Results: Which carabiner do you prefer to climb on
Steel	10	41.67%
Alloy	14	58.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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