Therrin's Pics

Therrin

newguy18

so how did the pine tree fair?

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Therrin

Eric Frei

There's a lot of dead looking pines in this shot, is that the beetle thing or fire?

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Therrin

Beetling mostly, I guess there are quite a few lightning strikes though, some areas have burned swaths.

This pic was taken at Mt Grahm, in Arizona (USA)


Was just looking back at the pic of me climbing helmetless... I was setting an anchor for a zip line that ran right over our campsite. Have to say it was pretty fun. That night I got some pics of a skunk eating a scrap from about 6 inches away.

Therrin

A picture of me while dismantling a dead pine up at The Oaks Camp & Conference Center.

T'was DEAD!.... uber dead. There is a amphitheatre below center, and below left, a storage building below right and various footpaths. Had to piece it down in a tight spot. Managed it all A-okay. No problems.

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Sean Freeman

You take care there Ken, climbing long dead trees big nono Very unpredictable shock loading dead timber, can go wrong big time really quickly. I know you completed the task and no probs and I'm very glad...but assessing the risks associated with removing long dead trees dismantling them manually...hmmm not for me.

Eric Frei

Dead pines = piss weak!

Take extreme care mate.

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JohN Dee

Haha! Good stuff there mate! Had to join into the fad aye? Lol just messing.

Indeed, a nice big dead pine, careful with those loads you put on them dead ones - stay safe and keep up the good work.

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newguy18

I seldomly rig dead or rotten pines,i find it safer to piece them out.On that note that also requires you to go out further on the limbs.That one looked okay enough though,it had some needles ad most of the limbs so i guess it hasn't been dead for to long.

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dannyboysfc

It dont matter how long its been dead, what if it had root rot issues that caused it to die? could be just waiting to fall over! I am really cautious with dead trees.

newguy18

I'm cautious too,but if its still standing,chances are i'll climb it.I have a black cherry that has root rot coming up,probabley tommorow.It is possible to climb trees with rot safely if you know how to do it.In a severe case you could guy the tree to the ground and wreck it out.just remember theres more than one way to skin a cat and the z doesn't apply to every tree or every situation.

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Sean Freeman

Bill, I'm assuming by Z you mean the safety standards in the USA?.....
Safety standards apply to every situation for which they were written, don't dis the regs, they can and will protect your life and the lives of others around you.

Therrin

I appreciate the concern. The tree in the picture is completely inaccessable via bucket/boom/crane/etc... due to it's location.

Also, based on the surrounding buildings and structures (unable to see in the picture) felling it would have been really tricky. Past my skill level, and at that, they wouldn't pay to have it done. That area is used several times a week by up to hundreds of kids, and I felt it was an acceptable risk to climb in order to complete the TD without damaging structures. The environment is extremely too target-rich too leave it in place any longer.

Where I am at in the picture is the highest I went up it.
It's probably one of the more hazardous I've climbed so far.

Bill, the presence of dead needles really doesn't mean much, there are many up here that've been dead for several years which still have needles attatched.

Therrin

Oh, forgot to mention, it had been beetled. There's alot of that going through this area.

JohN Dee

That part I don't get . Usually when there is more risk for personal harm = more expensive job. When we can mitigate the risk to property (away from life) is when the price descends... When I'm quoting, you can damn well bet your gunna get a cheaper job from me if I can fell it compared to climbing it.

Our excess is $1000. Rather pay that to fix a few things then not have anything for climbing it and dying... I've lived by this since the start, but more recently Trev put it into words for me - The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward must be.

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Eric Frei

Nothing beats a bum cheek cinching accurate drop!

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newguy18

Yes i am Sean,and once again no it doesn't,it says no one handing,guess what sometimes its safer to one hand espically when you have to keep clear of rigging or falling limbs.Heres another example no over head cutting,i find it nessacary to do from time to time.I don't dis the regs but there are times when listening to the regs will get you hurt or killed too.Nothing and i mean nothing is writen in stone in this buisness.Anyone who has been in it should realize that.

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newguy18

Espically whe the h.o leans with the tree as its falling.

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Sean Freeman

Bill you keep ignoring the regs and i know one thing that will be written in stone...probably marble..

Therrin

hehehehe.... got him good on that one.

JohnD, you're right about bigger risks should equal a bigger payoff.
Unfortunately, non-profit organizations don't always see it that way. The trunk was "solid" up to about where I am at in the pic, then it was a bit unstable. DBH was about 28"

I have to agree with NG on at least one point, the whole "no cutting above your head" part. Sometime's it's not feasible to follow that, even though it's a good idea to follow as much as possible, especially if you're new to it.
And we shouldn't even start a poll on who has one-handed a saw at some point or another.

It's like what they said in Pirates of the Carribean:
Think of them as guidelines, not rules.

JohN Dee

lol @ NG.

We have an OH&S Regulation Act 2000/2001 here that legally must be conformed to. Then below the Act's, we have our industry CoP (Much like your ANSI [NSW]). In our CoP the words must and should are used alot.

Simple. The sentences that state you MUST do this, means it is backed up by legislation where it would take them 2 seconds to prosecute and convict you if you were found in violation of it.

The sentences that state you SHOULD do this, means they want you to do it, but it is not backed up by legislation, meaning it would just take them a longer time to prosecute and convict you. Get this, Hard hats are a should in our industry! - check the bloody building industry regs bet hard hats are a must.

When we had Work Cover come in for one of our classes, he stated that our CoP: Tree Work 2008 is only a guide. A guide that if you follow will keep you to the bare minimum of the industry standards and if something goes wrong you'll be right - YEAH RIGHT, BS! So even though they say it is a guide, when shit hits the fan and you didn't follow the guide, all of a sudden the CoP becomes the rules and you're in trouble

The reason they don't want you to cut above your shoulder height and below your knees is because the chainsaw accident statistics say that alot of injuries occur in these particular awkward places - even with the professionals. What it comes down to is your proper technique and deploying it (hazard/risk assesment in your head) before you make these "illegal cuts".

Learning and deploying proper technique goes SO FAR in our industry.

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We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

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newguy18

I don't ignore them when they apply to the situation.Alot of times they do but there are exceptions.

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newguy18

Its simaler here but i've never heard of them prosecuting people since they are voluntary standards here.I agree that using your head will go further than some book.I've been in trees i could here my gaffs punching coming from the inside of the tree,only to take the top of and realize the tree was 90 percent hollow.I'd bet most wouldn't climb it but i'm also not most people.

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Therrin

That's right, you're not most people.

You're just part of the furniture.

newguy18

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treevet

One consideration that may be overlooked and could prove useful is if you have 2 stable anchor points (up in 2 trees) of which if a rope cranked up tight between the two trees (or lateral secure limbs) that would intersect or come close to passing above the tree you are to risk your life in (dead pine, etc.) and you can approximate or measure the location to statically attach a pulley or as I use a heavy steel ring above the work. You can climb off of this if it is a short span or if it is a wide span you may want to just use it for security (making sure the tree you are removing you are able to quickly detach from if it breaks or uproots). If it is a wide span you may get the bow and arrow effect but it may save your life when you stop bouncing around.

It takes a while to set up but may give you a few more years of your life for the effort. Just another tool in the bag if it presents itself.

newguy18

Good advice treevet,Its always a good saftey measure to tie into another tree if working in a dead one,in some instances you an also rig off of a good tree near enough to the dead one.In most though i just piece them out small but there are exceptions to everything.

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treevet

Def the 1st option is going up an adjacent if no aerial lift access is available. What I have done if a tree is not right next to the killer tree to climb/rigg off of is to look around for 2 trees fairly nearby that if you went up in them and tensioned a line like a cable installation between them, that line would pass right over the killer tree. In order to climb off of this line (with your climbing line) you need to pre install a ring or pulley to climb off of that will end up over the killer tree when tensioned. You obviously need to pre install your climbing line. If you are bucked into the killer tree and it breaks or uproots while you are way up in it and cannot disconnect your prob dead meat anyway regardless of this set up.

I have done this a number of times and it worked out quite well.

newguy18

I understood your first post clearly.Your setup similar to what i posted allows the climber to abandon tree if it hits the fan.I don't see anything like that mentioned in the so called rules anywhere.Wonder why.

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