Therrin's Pics

Therrin · 5th June 2008, 09:06 PM

hehehehe.... got him good on that one.

JohnD, you're right about bigger risks should equal a bigger payoff.
Unfortunately, non-profit organizations don't always see it that way. The trunk was "solid" up to about where I am at in the pic, then it was a bit unstable. DBH was about 28"

I have to agree with NG on at least one point, the whole "no cutting above your head" part. Sometime's it's not feasible to follow that, even though it's a good idea to follow as much as possible, especially if you're new to it.
And we shouldn't even start a poll on who has one-handed a saw at some point or another.

It's like what they said in Pirates of the Carribean:
Think of them as guidelines, not rules.

JohN Dee · 5th June 2008, 11:12 PM

lol @ NG.

We have an OH&S Regulation Act 2000/2001 here that legally must be conformed to. Then below the Act's, we have our industry CoP (Much like your ANSI [NSW]). In our CoP the words must and should are used alot.

Simple. The sentences that state you MUST do this, means it is backed up by legislation where it would take them 2 seconds to prosecute and convict you if you were found in violation of it.

The sentences that state you SHOULD do this, means they want you to do it, but it is not backed up by legislation, meaning it would just take them a longer time to prosecute and convict you. Get this, Hard hats are a should in our industry!

- check the bloody building industry regs bet hard hats are a must.

When we had Work Cover come in for one of our classes, he stated that our CoP: Tree Work 2008 is only a guide. A guide that if you follow will keep you to the bare minimum of the industry standards and if something goes wrong you'll be right - YEAH RIGHT, BS! So even though they say it is a guide, when shit hits the fan and you didn't follow the guide, all of a sudden the CoP becomes the rules and you're in trouble

The reason they don't want you to cut above your shoulder height and below your knees is because the chainsaw accident statistics say that alot of injuries occur in these particular awkward places - even with the professionals. What it comes down to is your proper technique and deploying it (hazard/risk assesment in your head) before you make these "illegal cuts".

Learning and deploying proper technique goes SO FAR in our industry.

newguy18 · 6th June 2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Bill you keep ignoring the regs and i know one thing that will be written in stone...probably marble..

I don't ignore them when they apply to the situation.Alot of times they do but there are exceptions.

newguy18 · 6th June 2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

lol @ NG.

We have an OH&S Regulation Act 2000/2001 here that legally must be conformed to. Then below the Act's, we have our industry CoP (Much like your ANSI [NSW]). In our CoP the words must and should are used alot.

Simple. The sentences that state you MUST do this, means it is backed up by legislation where it would take them 2 seconds to prosecute and convict you if you were found in violation of it.

The sentences that state you SHOULD do this, means they want you to do it, but it is not backed up by legislation, meaning it would just take them a longer time to prosecute and convict you. Get this, Hard hats are a should in our industry!

- check the bloody building industry regs bet hard hats are a must.

When we had Work Cover come in for one of our classes, he stated that our CoP: Tree Work 2008 is only a guide. A guide that if you follow will keep you to the bare minimum of the industry standards and if something goes wrong you'll be right - YEAH RIGHT, BS! So even though they say it is a guide, when shit hits the fan and you didn't follow the guide, all of a sudden the CoP becomes the rules and you're in trouble

The reason they don't want you to cut above your shoulder height and below your knees is because the chainsaw accident statistics say that alot of injuries occur in these particular awkward places - even with the professionals. What it comes down to is your proper technique and deploying it (hazard/risk assesment in your head) before you make these "illegal cuts".

Learning and deploying proper technique goes SO FAR in our industry.

Its simaler here but i've never heard of them prosecuting people since they are voluntary standards here.I agree that using your head will go further than some book.I've been in trees i could here my gaffs punching coming from the inside of the tree,only to take the top of and realize the tree was 90 percent hollow.I'd bet most wouldn't climb it but i'm also not most people.

Therrin · 7th June 2008, 12:18 AM

That's right, you're not most people.

You're just part of the furniture.

newguy18 · 7th June 2008, 05:57 AM

treevet · 7th June 2008, 07:00 PM

One consideration that may be overlooked and could prove useful is if you have 2 stable anchor points (up in 2 trees) of which if a rope cranked up tight between the two trees (or lateral secure limbs) that would intersect or come close to passing above the tree you are to risk your life in (dead pine, etc.) and you can approximate or measure the location to statically attach a pulley or as I use a heavy steel ring above the work. You can climb off of this if it is a short span or if it is a wide span you may want to just use it for security (making sure the tree you are removing you are able to quickly detach from if it breaks or uproots). If it is a wide span you may get the bow and arrow effect but it may save your life when you stop bouncing around.

It takes a while to set up but may give you a few more years of your life for the effort. Just another tool in the bag if it presents itself.

newguy18 · 7th June 2008, 07:33 PM

Good advice treevet,Its always a good saftey measure to tie into another tree if working in a dead one,in some instances you an also rig off of a good tree near enough to the dead one.In most though i just piece them out small but there are exceptions to everything.

treevet · 7th June 2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Good advice treevet,Its always a good saftey measure to tie into another tree if working in a dead one,in some instances you an also rig off of a good tree near enough to the dead one.In most though i just piece them out small but there are exceptions to everything.

Def the 1st option is going up an adjacent if no aerial lift access is available. What I have done if a tree is not right next to the killer tree to climb/rigg off of is to look around for 2 trees fairly nearby that if you went up in them and tensioned a line like a cable installation between them, that line would pass right over the killer tree. In order to climb off of this line (with your climbing line) you need to pre install a ring or pulley to climb off of that will end up over the killer tree when tensioned. You obviously need to pre install your climbing line. If you are bucked into the killer tree and it breaks or uproots while you are way up in it and cannot disconnect your prob dead meat anyway regardless of this set up.

I have done this a number of times and it worked out quite well.

newguy18 · 7th June 2008, 10:05 PM

I understood your first post clearly.Your setup similar to what i posted allows the climber to abandon tree if it hits the fan.I don't see anything like that mentioned in the so called rules anywhere.Wonder why.

Sean Freeman · 7th June 2008, 10:45 PM

Bill the "rules" (if you like) have to be written to encompass a very broad skill set from the person who is just starting out with very little experience or practical understanding to someone like treevet with years of practical experience and understanding of the complex forces we impart to trees when we dismantle or rig off them.

It is possible in unique circumstances to complete a written risk assessment in order to undertake works that are not covered by or exempted by the regs. It is really best to have OH&S accept your assessment before you do the work but I accept this is rarely going to happen.

I jave climbed and dismantled apartially wind thrown Eucs in the south with just the set up described, for others reading who have not used it take your time the first time you climb with tyrolean style high point since the dynamics of your life line are very different to what you would used to (that is if the floating point is being used for stability). The best part of the set up IMO is the confidence it gives the climber on what would otherwise be a very tense job.

Therrin · 8th June 2008, 01:14 AM

I've some experience with tyroleans, and I don't think it's a setup for unexperienced climbers to attempt except under very controlled circumstances for their first few times.

Your opposing anchor points have to be VERY sturdy (bomb-proof), as loading the line between them can exert around 5 times as much force at the anchors. Forces involved in a "slingshot" effect could very well bust-out an anchor that would hold an otherwise minimal fall which has very little take up of slack.

It's a good method to add to the "bag o' tricks", but not one that I'd employ in the trees at that location.

A MUCH safer alternative would have been finding a TIP above and behind in one of the other pines, but the situation didn't easily present itself.

Tyro's are used for all sorts of niffty stuff.

newguy18 · 8th June 2008, 06:36 PM

I climbed a water oak that had not only a bad case of heart rot but root issues as well.To top it off it was also at aproximately a 50 degree lean and full of suckers.I went with my better judgement and hooked a pull rope and climbed down and felled it.In the process of falling it collapsed one side of the stump and hung up in another tree.I'd hate to think what would have happened if i stayed up and wrecked it out.

Therrin · 30th August 2008, 12:44 AM

Um, here's a big fallen tree that I got a pic in front of on my trip up through the Sierras.

And, here's one that I snuck over and got a picture at the base of... I think it's General Sherman.

And... hmm, explain how this one works maybe? Hahahaha....

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, that last picture is still a very ALIVE and well tree. Doing just nicely, and maybe close to 200 ft tall.

phill ellison · 30th August 2008, 12:47 AM

awesome pictures mate

Therrin · 30th August 2008, 12:51 AM

Some more random pics from my backpacking trip.

The first is of the lake that we hiked up to called Spotted Lake. (actually Lower Spotted), you can see Red Top peak in the background that I scaled the second day there, I went up the ridge on the right on hit the top, then swung over the ridge on the left. They said when I yelled from the top I was a tiny red dot. (I was wearing a red shirt)

The next Pic is looking DOWN at Lower Spotted, from the summit of Red Top.

And then there's a dorky picture of me smiling while orienteering, sans trail.

5th June 2008, 09:06 PM	#51 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Therrin's Pics hehehehe.... got him good on that one. JohnD, you're right about bigger risks should equal a bigger payoff. Unfortunately, non-profit organizations don't always see it that way. The trunk was "solid" up to about where I am at in the pic, then it was a bit unstable. DBH was about 28" I have to agree with NG on at least one point, the whole "no cutting above your head" part. Sometime's it's not feasible to follow that, even though it's a good idea to follow as much as possible, especially if you're new to it. And we shouldn't even start a poll on who has one-handed a saw at some point or another. It's like what they said in Pirates of the Carribean: Think of them as guidelines, not rules. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

5th June 2008, 11:12 PM	#52 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 856	Re: Therrin's Pics lol @ NG. We have an OH&S Regulation Act 2000/2001 here that legally must be conformed to. Then below the Act's, we have our industry CoP (Much like your ANSI [NSW]). In our CoP the words must and should are used alot. Simple. The sentences that state you MUST do this, means it is backed up by legislation where it would take them 2 seconds to prosecute and convict you if you were found in violation of it. The sentences that state you SHOULD do this, means they want you to do it, but it is not backed up by legislation, meaning it would just take them a longer time to prosecute and convict you. Get this, Hard hats are a should in our industry! - check the bloody building industry regs bet hard hats are a must. When we had Work Cover come in for one of our classes, he stated that our CoP: Tree Work 2008 is only a guide. A guide that if you follow will keep you to the bare minimum of the industry standards and if something goes wrong you'll be right - YEAH RIGHT, BS! So even though they say it is a guide, when shit hits the fan and you didn't follow the guide, all of a sudden the CoP becomes the rules and you're in trouble The reason they don't want you to cut above your shoulder height and below your knees is because the chainsaw accident statistics say that alot of injuries occur in these particular awkward places - even with the professionals. What it comes down to is your proper technique and deploying it (hazard/risk assesment in your head) before you make these "illegal cuts". Learning and deploying proper technique goes SO FAR in our industry. __________________ Don't tell me the sky is the limit, when there are footprints on the moon. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

7th June 2008, 12:18 AM	#55 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,348	Re: Therrin's Pics That's right, you're not most people. You're just part of the furniture. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

7th June 2008, 05:57 AM	#56 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,362	Re: Therrin's Pics __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

7th June 2008, 07:00 PM	#57 (permalink)
treevet Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 1,260	Re: Therrin's Pics One consideration that may be overlooked and could prove useful is if you have 2 stable anchor points (up in 2 trees) of which if a rope cranked up tight between the two trees (or lateral secure limbs) that would intersect or come close to passing above the tree you are to risk your life in (dead pine, etc.) and you can approximate or measure the location to statically attach a pulley or as I use a heavy steel ring above the work. You can climb off of this if it is a short span or if it is a wide span you may want to just use it for security (making sure the tree you are removing you are able to quickly detach from if it breaks or uproots). If it is a wide span you may get the bow and arrow effect but it may save your life when you stop bouncing around. It takes a while to set up but may give you a few more years of your life for the effort. Just another tool in the bag if it presents itself.

7th June 2008, 07:33 PM	#58 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,362	Re: Therrin's Pics Good advice treevet,Its always a good saftey measure to tie into another tree if working in a dead one,in some instances you an also rig off of a good tree near enough to the dead one.In most though i just piece them out small but there are exceptions to everything. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

7th June 2008, 10:05 PM	#60 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,362	Re: Therrin's Pics I understood your first post clearly.Your setup similar to what i posted allows the climber to abandon tree if it hits the fan.I don't see anything like that mentioned in the so called rules anywhere.Wonder why. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

7th June 2008, 10:45 PM	#61 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,788	Re: Therrin's Pics Bill the "rules" (if you like) have to be written to encompass a very broad skill set from the person who is just starting out with very little experience or practical understanding to someone like treevet with years of practical experience and understanding of the complex forces we impart to trees when we dismantle or rig off them. It is possible in unique circumstances to complete a written risk assessment in order to undertake works that are not covered by or exempted by the regs. It is really best to have OH&S accept your assessment before you do the work but I accept this is rarely going to happen. I jave climbed and dismantled apartially wind thrown Eucs in the south with just the set up described, for others reading who have not used it take your time the first time you climb with tyrolean style high point since the dynamics of your life line are very different to what you would used to (that is if the floating point is being used for stability). The best part of the set up IMO is the confidence it gives the climber on what would otherwise be a very tense job. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

8th June 2008, 06:36 PM	#63 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 3,362	Re: Therrin's Pics I climbed a water oak that had not only a bad case of heart rot but root issues as well.To top it off it was also at aproximately a 50 degree lean and full of suckers.I went with my better judgement and hooked a pull rope and climbed down and felled it.In the process of falling it collapsed one side of the stump and hung up in another tree.I'd hate to think what would have happened if i stayed up and wrecked it out. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

30th August 2008, 12:47 AM	#65 (permalink)
phill ellison Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: May 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 194	Re: Therrin's Pics awesome pictures mate