Palm Cleaning, Yuck!

Therrin

Here are the pics I promised of the big palm job I did. We were hustling like crazy but my crewguy still managed to get several pictures. The first one is him next to my rental chipper, which also shows the sidewalls I made for the truck.
The rest are me. Constructive criticism would be nice, but plz keep in mind that this was the first palm job I had EVER done, and there were 6 of them.
Quite a bit of skirt on them, as you can see in some of the pictures.

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Therrin

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newguy18

Some constructive criticism,buy an f-150.More citicism,buy those caddy pads.I see you use 2 tie ins on palms,when i clean them i use a handsaw so therefore i go up solo[ie one lanyard],i look at it like this,if you think you would cut through one lanyard with a handsaw then you really shouldn't be climbing.

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Therrin

Dumbass =)

I'd never use less than 2 tie ins, even in a palm. Unless POSSIBLY I was using a HAND saw and had a steel core flipline. But even then I'd probably use a backup, it's just too routine at this point.

And,...using a handsaw on all of those palms would have been pure HELL.

newguy18

Call me what you want,the way i've learned is how i'm probabley gonna stay,hell most trees i buck down in one lanyard but thats just me.Lets see 2 tie ins while out on a limb and while topping[usually].But then again i'm not having fun without being in danger,probably why i love powerslideing my truck at 60 mph,and as of 3 weeks ago climbing a black cherry tree that was dead for 15 years.I live for doing trees noone else around here will even touch.My only regret is that i didn't have a camera for most of them.=(Oh well i have the stories and remember the split second as i was up in these nasty trees thinking to myself "i really shouldn't be up here".on one job i elected to cut the notch and make the backcut and have a truck pull the top out after i swung over to another tree.

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Jeff Darby

Bill with comments like these,???

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Therrin

*nods* Competency not acheived.

Bill, can you tell me what ANY of that has to do with CRITIQUING my palm cleaning? Cuz I couldnt find anything in there that had anything to do with my thread.

Would anyone else like to give me some critique?

newguy18

Whats with the knee brace,is your knee still messed up?Take it easy on that knee if it is.As for critizing your work by the book its seem alright as long as you cut about 3/4 away from the petoile.Nasty job,how close were the wires?If less than 10' then you did a bad thing.

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Therrin

Speaking of the petiols, yeah I actually wasnt sure how close to cut the stuff to the trunk and how much to leave. The people that had trimmed them in years past before I got there had left quite a bit sticking out, some of them between 6 and 10 inches or so. I think it looks really messy and crummy when you leave them sticking out that far so I typically cut them to about 2 or 3 inches.

As far as the power lines go, one of the palms behind the house had a wire going right through the dead fronds and I had to carefully work around that puppy. It was only a secondary though and had a special line cover over it where it went through the skirt.
Out in front they were probaby 8 to 10 feet from the palms. Maybe 12, I'm not sure, I wasnt worried about it though. If anything the ones coming down the street might have been 220 but they didnt look like huge KV ones.

I wouldn't however, want to mess with a throwbag or launching a line aorund those wires. Ugh...

Knotahippie

Good job Therrin,

First palms huh? I really like how you didn't cut live ones, A+.

IMO replace the second flip for a lifeline for a quick escape?

One of the places I use a rappel device to descend.

Did it get windy in the afternoon that day?

Therrin

Yeah it did, there were fronds strewn all over the road, the neighbors front and back yards and such. I had cones out in the street, around the work zones, and on the footpath.

I repelled out of one of them, but I prefer to climb down so that I can re-assess the cuts I've made and touch up stuff on the way back down so it looks a little nicer and neater.

If anything I'd keep the second flip, and maybe add a lifeline for escape...

While on a roll I got close to my lines a couple times, so I'd prefer to ALWAYS be backed up with double flips while working.

It occurred to me that while cleaning palms from the bottom going up, the rule of thumb about not using the saw while having it raised above the height of your chest kinda goes out the window as well.
Palm work tends to bend alot of the more regulatory rules, me thinks.

Therrin

I actually did cut a couple live fronds out. Typically only if they were already hanging really low, and especially if they were...whats it called...chloritic? All yellowing and browning already down near the petiole and stretching down into the frond.

The one in the backyard with the power lines under it, I trimmed out a couple fronds which would have fallen down and hit it again, but any that come in above after that should clear it. Though of it as preventative maintenance.

But I know that you cant remove too many fronds without causing a stress reaction.

Knotahippie

Sure, I like a redundant anchor too.

Guess I really like using a lifeline esp. when cutting (handsaw or not).

Don't like raccoons/wasps nests much.

Saw a Robusta palm recently that looked like an hourglass right in the middle of the stem...

real nice effect.

newguy18

Ropeing down fronds sucks but if the wind is high enough i'll do it,around here it seems to be a trend to build an inground pool and plant palms all around it,then say 6-9 months later find out just how messy the palms are and have them removed.Comical at times but after awhile its just sad.Palms do require more overhead and one handing,probably why most of the time i use a pair of loppers or a handsaw,just safer and usually quite effective.If removing i just use the 192 t,rather kill my crappy saw and save my huskys.

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Therrin

I did one of them completely with a handsaw and swore that it wasn't gonna happen again. you get about halfway through and then it binds up in the stiffer stuff right in the middle. I couldnt figure a way to keep it from doing that. Then of course on the last cut the stem pops loose but its still connected by strings. YOu've gotta get that last cut nice and quick and clean to sever the strings and let it drop free.

I think I started part of a boot on fire with the exhaust from my 200T, I need to put the spark arrester back on it I suppose, I'd hate to be in one of those blokes when they catch fire!

It kinda sucks though using a chainsaw up under the skirt...the fumes get pretty bad as there is almost zero air circulation in there.

newguy18

Try loppers,i have a pair thats about 14 inches long,hangs real nice off my belt and make quick clean cuts.I'm not dissing your tech just offering alernatives.I've never had your problem with a handsaw yet,i just grab the frond with one hand and cut with the other one.Now the osha guys are gonna make a regulation to always keep 2 hands on the handsaw.

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Garry Brockley

Bill take a look at my pics i double up all the time, i felled three silver birch today that were over power and telephone lines all upright limbs, these trees are seriously slippery especially as it was snowing today -6. i use endless strops to stand onand a self tightening line if my lanyard slips which it can do frequently on these trees, so are you saying i shouldn't be climbing if i cant use just the lanyard? i have a wife, kids and crew that rely on me doing the job properly getting payed and paying the bills, i will live for tomorrow if you don't mind, i have faced true death twice there is no glory in it just pain anguish and upset. your comments are sometimes foolhardy and amatureish, which is a pity because you seem like a staunch type guy.
nice job on the palm Ken i have never done one but it looks like hell to do, iv'e got to learn fast as i can imagine im going to get lots of them soon.

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Victor Lindsay

ANSI Z133.1 9.2.6 Palm frond skirts that have three years or more growth SHALL be removed from the top down!

I saw no way for you to escape if the skirt falls. You would be trapped. I've seen youtube footage of guys getting trapped, most die. Those skirts weigh in at about 500-1000 lbs or more, and when you start vibrating the palm with your saw, boom! You don't neet an areal lift to do this. When i find the treads for the adjustable false crotch, I'll put them in. I do these all the time here in florida, and I've made the same misscalculation on safety, but once enlightened, I'll never do them the old way again. jm2c

Victor Lindsay

Here's one i did some time back. You can see my lines. That skirt was 450 pounds.

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newguy18

On heavy skirts i use a pole saw and clean about 15 up,then step up about 3 or 4 ' up in my gaffs and clean with the pole saw on my way up,even if all the fronds broke loose,by the time it hit my flipline it would break apart,i tried the false crotch system once,i didn't like it.

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Victor Lindsay

If ansi addresses it, then it must have been happining at an alarming rate.

Newguy, have you ever see someone trapped under a 500 pound skirt? They don't fall apart, they slide down whole.

newguy18

But in my technique it has to fall at least 15',even if it didn't fall apart,i wouldn't be that high off the ground.I stick with my tech,hasn't failed me yet.

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Therrin

It's not that I disagree with ANSI or that I think the way I'm doing it isn't dangerous, but I dont see how you'd accurately put a line over some of these things with the wind and wires around them.... sounds like asking for more risk than if you just climb them. The backyard ones cant even be accessed by a bucket.

How difficult is it to get to the skirt on the opposite side from the side you're ascending if you use the rope up and over the top?

Knotahippie

Seems like could be a big problem with palms that have been skinned.

Victor Lindsay

You could anchor to anouther tree, ect. But it's realy not that bad. I've never even came close to my line. It goes so much faster working from the top down.

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newguy18

With those wires about,noway.A missed shot with a big shot or even his aborharpoon would leave throwlinn all over those wires.Not me,i've had to many close calls with powerlines.

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Knotahippie

The problem I had was pulling a rope into the canopy, kept snagging at (chain) knot and on the rope strands.

Washingtonia, not nice.

Forget it with the wires.

newguy18

Washy's really suck.I like ekka's idea about hollow gaffs that inject round up into them as you climb.

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Victor Lindsay

I've never had a difficult pull. Just give yourself a good angle. the power lines in the photos where on the other side of the street, not a problem. I worked for FPL, (florida power and light), so i'm not stupid when it comes to power lines. You might feel a little tingle in the throw line if it past over a power line, and it would take one hell-of-a wind gust to change the direction of the throw line.

newguy18

I'll just say here,i'm set in my way of doing things and probabley too stubborn to change.

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