Large tree transplants

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 10:50 AM

Well here is the first six photos of a great many taken of the transplants we did nearly three weeks back. Prep time before the excavations 6mths (should have been 12mths but developers are annoying things and if you let them get to you well....

So we go from the excavation at the planting site to opening up the front of the root ball.

l2edneck · 9th April 2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

(Ekka how can I get these attached already open so people can just look at them without opening the files?)

Upload, then right click on the link,go to properties at the bottom and copy the url.

Then go to reply menu and click "insert image" the square next to the quote button.Then add the url.

Great Job BTW !!!

Ekka · 9th April 2007, 01:31 PM

Yeah, where's the rest of the pics, like how you got the beams under it.

Good job.

Nice looking soil too.

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 01:52 PM

Beams were driven under using 20T excavator

My big mistake not wrapping the root ball immediately it was exposed..stupid

Beams under ready for the lift.....

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 02:02 PM

Day of the first lift...

Its important that we all know whos in charge..thats me sitting down against the fencing trying to look interested

Now thats a D shackle!

Lets put some of that crane power to work....

a_lopa · 9th April 2007, 02:05 PM

Cool!

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 02:09 PM

Lets get her out and over!

Now thats a relief back on the ground.

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 03:16 PM

Just to show that sometimes things don't always go the way you planned....2nd tree, took an extra 150/200mm of root ball depth since felt the 1st tree was not adequate in root mass.

Oh yeah this guy cleaned out under the pipes so we could put the beams in...some guys have the best jobs!

More soil = more weight

Just enough soil to bend the I beam!!

Doesn't matter how many people look at it its bent

So we'll lift with two beams at each end then

Ekka · 9th April 2007, 06:18 PM

How many ton were the lifts and how many ton was the crane.

Also the pipes that were rammed in ... how?

What sort of pipes were they?

How was the vertical circle around the tree cut?

When the pipes are inserted underneath and the tree lifted were there any roots (like a tap root) preventing the lift?

And finally, what sort of tree is it and why the move?

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 06:46 PM

Ha ha, just a few questions? Look anyone viewing these photos if you have any questions in addition to Ekkas, that I'll answer in a sec, just post them.

Ok Ekka: 1st tree 24tonnes, second tree 35tonnes, why'd the beam fail? probably because we used it's life in the 1st lift inaddition to adding to the load in the 2nd by taking more soil.

Pipes were rammed in using the excavator and the "drive line" we had dug out..ie enough room for the pipe 6m + the excavator 18m. Some went in about 3m easy then needed to be hammered in using a rock breaker.

We used what we could get in Townsville (trust me we spent about 20hrs chasing what we wanted) settled on 100mm nominal bore 4.5mmwall 6.5m length galvanised finish...we needed around 30 pipes.

The root ball had been partially cut 6mths before , then final cut day before the lift..water blaster and vacuum truck, I manually cut the roots exposed with a saw.

No "tap root" but your question is very relevant...the reason for the change in depthof the 2nd tree relates to the physical nature of the soil and a stuff up on my part. Until you do the actual excavation you don't really know what you're going to find in the soil horizons...ie how deep the roots are in the soil profile...I made a mistake with the 1st tree we're near a river here and the soil is sandy alluvials, the roots are deper than I amticipated. the 1st tree when we undercut the root ball did have more vertical sinkers than I had thought..NO tap root, doesn't exist (I know you know this Ekka just being melodramatic!) Therefore the 2nd tree i went extra 150/200mm and we bent the beam.

Why the move (another good question) I provided the Arb impact Statement for the DA plans for the residential development going on in this area, and as part of that was required to assess trees inside the proposed construction envelope for their suitability for transplant..I assessed these two as being candidates for transplant, became part of the approval specs therefore we didi the transplant.

The trees are Albizia saman as tough if not tougher than Ficus you could literally cut all tha main scaffolds off these trees and cut the roots to within 2m of the stem they would still live (wouldn't be any good long term but they'd live)

Ekka · 9th April 2007, 06:58 PM

What do you think of this idea.

Cut the roots a season prior about 300mm shorter than finish cut circumference. This gives a season in same soil profile for new roots and finer roots to grow. Then the recut is only taking the newer smaller roots with an established framework of roots behind them?

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 07:07 PM

Sorry Ekka meant to attach this we cut the roots like this 6mths before would have liked at least 12mths but you know what its like with developers

so partially cut the roots back filled with sand and compost mix into the trenches.
trans trench.JPG

but yes can't see why your suggested method wouldn't work just as well.

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 07:15 PM

Out takes what we should probably keep quite about!!

Crap that aint supposed to happen...maybe we should have tightly wrapped the root ball first!!

Somehow those don't look right, get away from there Tim you're only attracting attention!

Crickey they're all over the place! Hope they pull back into place when we lift.

That chain needs to be moved golly those chains look heavy eh?

just when you think everything is going so well the damn tree don't fit the f@#$%^g hole!!!

Will keep you all informed how these little babies go over the next 12mths..

TrevMcRev · 9th April 2007, 08:41 PM

Awesome job Boa. Well Done.

Sean Freeman · 9th April 2007, 08:58 PM

Thanks Trev.

Sean Freeman · 10th April 2007, 08:25 AM

Here's the undercutting of the root ball a drama filled activity as well!

Get one monster recovery vehicle..yeah Tim your hair's fine!

Take cable around the tree...note Tim working hard in background!

Connect to all 3 winches

Crickey that looks complex

Pull that sucker through

Just to give some idea of the forces envovled the recover vehicle is 20T the excavator 20T also note the bucket being driven into the ground!! We had the front of the truck up 1m in the air before the cable cut through...trees are awesome.

Ekka · 10th April 2007, 08:30 AM

Bugger me, just imagine if that cable snapped.

Is there any other way?

They cut that sunken Russian Nuclear submarine in half using cable impregnated with ??? running it back and forth thru winches.

Sean Freeman · 10th April 2007, 08:38 AM

Yeah, getting the cable to slice like a saw is the key, but as you can sort of see we couldn't create the space to have two machines, there are other ways simple common sense pilot bore hole under roots middle of tree pass cable through that and cut one half, less resistance then pass through again cut the other half, but we were impacted by time machine hire etc.. Lets not even think about that cable breaking ok...

Sean Freeman · 10th April 2007, 08:46 AM

Shots of the 2nd root ball being undercut note whs protection shelter being used by Steve! Yes that is on telephoto...

Also no prizes but anyone hazard a quess at what the chains are for? (Hazard is a clue). Two trucks each 20T, 20T excavator with bucket down and the resistance still enough to move the whole lot into a straight line....tree roots are strong

Ekka · 10th April 2007, 08:49 AM

Chains are for slowing down snapped cable whip.

OK, so what do I win?

Sean Freeman · 10th April 2007, 08:56 AM

HA HA, you're right of course

But I said there was no prize sorry but you have the satisfaction of knowing you're right

The funniest thing was we closed down the area 200m up and down from the tree (public park area where the trees are) had Tim and another fella up the truck end, so when the towing guys decided to put the chains on I've called up to Tim that chances are the thimble might pull out, he's just smiled like yeah right whatever, then when he saw the chains put on

But alls well we won't use that system again but rather have alternatives organised in advance.

TREE-SURFER · 10th April 2007, 09:09 AM

That was a truly awsome job Boa. What was the price range for that sort of operation. If you don't mind me asking.

JayD · 10th April 2007, 10:19 AM

Great work, Boa,in your last picture that I beam looked like it only just handled the weight of the tree,there should be structual steel fail graphs available for referance for your lifts just like the formula to work out how heavy a trunk is..it may help up the road.
Good Stuff very interesting.
JayD

osb_mail · 10th April 2007, 10:38 AM

What is the time that these big moves take like total man including first root pruning ?How many tree moves have you done like this ? Do you think that this method is profitably or is it only used on very valuable tree ?I think it would be hard for a person to make money moving trees like this it looks like a whole lot of money wrapped up in one tree ? what has your success rate been moving tree like this ?Also this is my first post in tree world have read a lot and really enjoying everyones post and threads . I have seen a lot of the same names as on another site and tree world seems to have a little less chainsaw talk so it might be a little more suited for me thanks .

Ekka · 10th April 2007, 03:58 PM

Sorry to butt in Boa but I know a little, I'm sure you'll correct me where it's different in this case.

I know of a large ficus tree that was moved on the Gold Coast.

Estimated cost of that one was around the $1/4million mark. They had to retain the tree healthy as part of the agreement to subdivide water front land. The tree was on the prime spot facing the water.

They moved the tree to a back block that was also going to be a small park, the value of the block gained was around $2million so worth it.

Also, council doesn't care for the cost much, it's part of the deal so what the developer does is absorb that cost over the entire project, everyone might pay $5k more for a block that's all etc. It's just part of doing business.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that move of two trees was perhaps in the $120k region. There's many contingencies written into the agreement, it's very hard to price these things and I dare say the developer takes on the direct costs for hardware, cranes, damages etc and the arborists take on more of a consultants and supervisors role for which they get paid plus preparation and continuing care.

In some of these cases the trees have large bonds put on them, so if they die within a certain period of time the developer gets stung for that to. It's in the developers interest not to scab out and get cheap quotes but get the right people and right result at whatever the cost.

You will see more of this, it is the future direction of planned development. The trees are generally moved close by to a more suitable location. Of course the species matters, try that with a 130' gum tree and you will be in trouble. But in this instance the arborists identified trees which could be moved, creates a lot more flexibility to the architects for planning.

9th April 2007, 01:31 PM	#3
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Yeah, where's the rest of the pics, like how you got the beams under it. Good job. Nice looking soil too. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

9th April 2007, 02:05 PM	#6
a_lopa Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,169	Cool! __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory www.drouintreeservices.com.au

9th April 2007, 06:18 PM	#9
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	How many ton were the lifts and how many ton was the crane. Also the pipes that were rammed in ... how? What sort of pipes were they? How was the vertical circle around the tree cut? When the pipes are inserted underneath and the tree lifted were there any roots (like a tap root) preventing the lift? And finally, what sort of tree is it and why the move? __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

9th April 2007, 06:46 PM	#10
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Ha ha, just a few questions? Look anyone viewing these photos if you have any questions in addition to Ekkas, that I'll answer in a sec, just post them. Ok Ekka: 1st tree 24tonnes, second tree 35tonnes, why'd the beam fail? probably because we used it's life in the 1st lift inaddition to adding to the load in the 2nd by taking more soil. Pipes were rammed in using the excavator and the "drive line" we had dug out..ie enough room for the pipe 6m + the excavator 18m. Some went in about 3m easy then needed to be hammered in using a rock breaker. We used what we could get in Townsville (trust me we spent about 20hrs chasing what we wanted) settled on 100mm nominal bore 4.5mmwall 6.5m length galvanised finish...we needed around 30 pipes. The root ball had been partially cut 6mths before , then final cut day before the lift..water blaster and vacuum truck, I manually cut the roots exposed with a saw. No "tap root" but your question is very relevant...the reason for the change in depthof the 2nd tree relates to the physical nature of the soil and a stuff up on my part. Until you do the actual excavation you don't really know what you're going to find in the soil horizons...ie how deep the roots are in the soil profile...I made a mistake with the 1st tree we're near a river here and the soil is sandy alluvials, the roots are deper than I amticipated. the 1st tree when we undercut the root ball did have more vertical sinkers than I had thought..NO tap root, doesn't exist (I know you know this Ekka just being melodramatic!) Therefore the 2nd tree i went extra 150/200mm and we bent the beam. Why the move (another good question) I provided the Arb impact Statement for the DA plans for the residential development going on in this area, and as part of that was required to assess trees inside the proposed construction envelope for their suitability for transplant..I assessed these two as being candidates for transplant, became part of the approval specs therefore we didi the transplant. The trees are Albizia saman as tough if not tougher than Ficus you could literally cut all tha main scaffolds off these trees and cut the roots to within 2m of the stem they would still live (wouldn't be any good long term but they'd live) __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

9th April 2007, 06:58 PM	#11
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	What do you think of this idea. Cut the roots a season prior about 300mm shorter than finish cut circumference. This gives a season in same soil profile for new roots and finer roots to grow. Then the recut is only taking the newer smaller roots with an established framework of roots behind them? __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

9th April 2007, 07:07 PM	#12
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Sorry Ekka meant to attach this we cut the roots like this 6mths before would have liked at least 12mths but you know what its like with developers so partially cut the roots back filled with sand and compost mix into the trenches. trans trench.JPG but yes can't see why your suggested method wouldn't work just as well. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

9th April 2007, 08:41 PM	#14
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,255	Awesome job Boa. Well Done. __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

9th April 2007, 08:58 PM	#15
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Thanks Trev. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

10th April 2007, 08:30 AM	#17
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Bugger me, just imagine if that cable snapped. Is there any other way? They cut that sunken Russian Nuclear submarine in half using cable impregnated with ??? running it back and forth thru winches. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

10th April 2007, 08:38 AM	#18
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Yeah, getting the cable to slice like a saw is the key, but as you can sort of see we couldn't create the space to have two machines, there are other ways simple common sense pilot bore hole under roots middle of tree pass cable through that and cut one half, less resistance then pass through again cut the other half, but we were impacted by time machine hire etc.. Lets not even think about that cable breaking ok... __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

10th April 2007, 08:49 AM	#20
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Chains are for slowing down snapped cable whip. OK, so what do I win? __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

10th April 2007, 08:56 AM	#21
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	HA HA, you're right of course But I said there was no prize sorry but you have the satisfaction of knowing you're right The funniest thing was we closed down the area 200m up and down from the tree (public park area where the trees are) had Tim and another fella up the truck end, so when the towing guys decided to put the chains on I've called up to Tim that chances are the thimble might pull out, he's just smiled like yeah right whatever, then when he saw the chains put on But alls well we won't use that system again but rather have alternatives organised in advance. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

10th April 2007, 09:09 AM	#22
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 404	That was a truly awsome job Boa. What was the price range for that sort of operation. If you don't mind me asking. __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work Andy@Aerial-Arborist.co.uk What experts say about TOPPING

10th April 2007, 10:19 AM	#23
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,396	Great work, Boa,in your last picture that I beam looked like it only just handled the weight of the tree,there should be structual steel fail graphs available for referance for your lifts just like the formula to work out how heavy a trunk is..it may help up the road. Good Stuff very interesting. JayD

10th April 2007, 10:38 AM	#24
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 223	Here are my questions? What is the time that these big moves take like total man including first root pruning ?How many tree moves have you done like this ? Do you think that this method is profitably or is it only used on very valuable tree ?I think it would be hard for a person to make money moving trees like this it looks like a whole lot of money wrapped up in one tree ? what has your success rate been moving tree like this ?Also this is my first post in tree world have read a lot and really enjoying everyones post and threads . I have seen a lot of the same names as on another site and tree world seems to have a little less chainsaw talk so it might be a little more suited for me thanks .

10th April 2007, 03:58 PM	#25
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Sorry to butt in Boa but I know a little, I'm sure you'll correct me where it's different in this case. I know of a large ficus tree that was moved on the Gold Coast. Estimated cost of that one was around the $1/4million mark. They had to retain the tree healthy as part of the agreement to subdivide water front land. The tree was on the prime spot facing the water. They moved the tree to a back block that was also going to be a small park, the value of the block gained was around $2million so worth it. Also, council doesn't care for the cost much, it's part of the deal so what the developer does is absorb that cost over the entire project, everyone might pay $5k more for a block that's all etc. It's just part of doing business. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that move of two trees was perhaps in the $120k region. There's many contingencies written into the agreement, it's very hard to price these things and I dare say the developer takes on the direct costs for hardware, cranes, damages etc and the arborists take on more of a consultants and supervisors role for which they get paid plus preparation and continuing care. In some of these cases the trees have large bonds put on them, so if they die within a certain period of time the developer gets stung for that to. It's in the developers interest not to scab out and get cheap quotes but get the right people and right result at whatever the cost. You will see more of this, it is the future direction of planned development. The trees are generally moved close by to a more suitable location. Of course the species matters, try that with a 130' gum tree and you will be in trouble. But in this instance the arborists identified trees which could be moved, creates a lot more flexibility to the architects for planning. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

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