Large tree transplants

Sean Freeman · 23rd September 2008, 09:36 PM

Yes National Shade (aka Davey Tree Movers) really have some wicked tools, sandy soil profile there too.

I would agree with you the root ball size is a big element in long term transplant success,a great many variables in that particular calculation too.

willem · 23rd September 2008, 09:43 PM

davey treemovers, I will search the net and hopefully see some more action.

willem · 1st November 2008, 09:09 PM

Hello Sean,
I have a question about the waterblaster you use in the begining of this thread.
Does the power of high pressure water cut the roots or do you just blast away the soil.
What are the machinespecifics??
How deep can you get in the soil without digging??

Sean Freeman · 1st November 2008, 10:46 PM

On that job the machine generated just over 3000 psi, it did cut through many fine smaller roots anything over 20mm we clean cut.

Side note on water blasters for Arb work, often the operator will cut through many roots bigger than 20mm, remove bark outer cambium from roots, both actions which tend to undermine the original tree protection intent in using the hydro-excavation technique in the first place!

So careful discussion with the operator required prior to works commencing!

I have reasonable experience with water blasters in various soil types they can excavate as deep as the wand is long but it does take time, is messy, and can be almost as destructive as excavation machinery if you are not careful.

The intention is to remove the soil and expose the root system without causing extensive damage to root tissues to permit clean cutting of roots and if deemed necessary treatment of the cuts. Good operators with an appreciation of the need to protect root tissue can be very effective, and efficient. But sadly it is not the answer to all root problems, not by a long mark.

In more recent works I have used pot-holing with hydro-excavation a very very useful means of locating the major structural roots and avoid destroying the supporting root plate when installing services etc.

willem · 2nd November 2008, 09:03 PM

Sean thanks for the quick response.

Could you please explain this last part: "In more recent works I have used pot-holing with hydro-excavation a very very useful means of locating the major structural roots and avoid destroying the supporting root plate when installing services etc."
I think you are dealing here with the same problem I'm dealing with.
Dammage to treeroots when replacing the existing sewersystem.
A big problem in Holland because 80 % of our sewersystem has to be replaced in the next decades.

Ekka · 2nd November 2008, 10:18 PM

What about a machine like this.

2002-VERMEER-V2050-Rotary Cutters-Turlock-CA

Sean Freeman · 2nd November 2008, 10:29 PM

What I meant was that using hydro-excavation is quick, simple and relatively cheap means to confirm the location of the major roots in the ground. When services have to be located within the root zone it is sometimes possible to thread conduits under the root plate without trenching through the roots.

Since we know that roots rarely follow the symmetrical idealised pattern shown in diagrams, sometimes previous works adjacent to trees, or the specific soil profile will result in very uneven root growth. Using the water blaster to open a small pothole in the specific location of proposed services is very efficient and effective.

willem · 26th November 2008, 05:49 AM

Hello Sean,
We had a demo overhere of a machine that can clean out a rootsystem with minimal damage.
There was also a demo of a groundradar to locate roots. The radar results were checked by cleaning out the rootsystem with the machine
See pictures

Sean Freeman · 26th November 2008, 06:48 AM

Good pics Willem

What did you think of the ability of the ground penetrating radar to find roots?

In the UK it has had mixed reception, also the price would seem to limit its use to the high profile bigger budget jobs....I have no personal experience of the radar.

Ekka · 26th November 2008, 06:47 PM

Willem, that looks like dry excavation, maybe better as no mud!

Maybe call it aero-vac or aerovation

willem · 27th November 2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

Good pics Willem

What did you think of the ability of the ground penetrating radar to find roots?

In the UK it has had mixed reception, also the price would seem to limit its use to the high profile bigger budget jobs....I have no personal experience of the radar.

The results of the measurments with the radar were not very good. The guys who owned the radar said this was caused by the software which transfers the radarwaves into a two or three dimensional picture.
They first showed the two-dimensional picture which showed no roots in the first soillayer. After cleaning out the rootsystem we could all see that all roots were in the first layer. So big mistake.
But I'm convinced that this technique has a lot of potential. Especialy when keep developing beter software and create relaible 3-d pictures.

Ekka · 1st February 2009, 03:34 PM

Regarding heavy pruning of transplants another thread started here.

Heavy pruning prior to transplanting| transplanting stumps| Advanced Tree Transplant

Ekka · 30th March 2009, 08:16 AM

Making like a tree and leaving doesn't keep live oak from croaking

Quote:

Making like a tree and leaving doesn't keep live oak from croaking

By John Kelso
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, March 29, 2009

Sometimes you have to marvel at the goofy stuff money gets spent on around this town.

Here's a good one. Two years ago, Stratus Properties spent $130,000 to move a 215,000-pound, 40-foot-tall live oak to the north shore of Lady Bird Lake to save it from a downtown hotel and mixed-use construction project a couple blocks away.

The tree is now mostly dead.

"We've noticed that," said Rick Colbrunn, project manager for the City of Austin's Public Works Department. "We had a meeting a couple of weeks ago. We made the decision that we're going to have to remove and replace it with 13 2-inch-caliper oak trees." He says the city will make arrangements to cut down the tree in the next week or two.

Colbrunn figures the drought killed the tree. I figure the tree was killed by poodles taking a leak on it. It sits near where people jog. If you want to see a dead tree, it's near the old Buford Tower, on Cesar Chavez Street just west of Congress Avenue.

At least the tree got one heck of a high-dollar joy ride before it croaked. In 2007, Stratus Properties went to a lot of trouble and expense to move the tree by truck from the Block 21 property north of City Hall, to its current resting place near the new pedestrian promenade along Cesar Chavez.

The block where the tree used to live is being developed into a W Hotel (W stands for "Whoa," which is what you'll say when you get your bill), a new Austin City Limits studio (maybe somebody can write a song about a dead tree), a 490-space parking garage, 159 condos and 40,000 square feet of commercial space. So the tree would have died anyway from yuppies pouring lattes on it.

"I think the City of Austin has a tree ordinance that would not allow us to cut it down, so we had to basically move it," said Beau Armstrong, Stratus' CEO. He said they went to a lot of trouble to move the tree. Since it was so huge, it wasn't like repotting a tomato.

"We had to shut down the streets. We had to lower power lines. I think we even had to take some of the crossbars off the traffic signals." Sounds like the moving caused almost as much traffic disruption as the Pecan Street Festival.

The moving of the tree even made it onto CNN.

"I know when we moved it, we had some T-shirts made up, and we were very proud of the fact that we were moving the tree," Armstrong said.

Mayor Will Wynn thinks making Stratus move the tree was stupid. He sputters when he talks about the dead tree.

"The attitude around here is just stick it to the developer and go through the brain death of moving this tree," Mayor Wynn said. "And it promptly has died. So now we've done $9 million in improvements on this pedestrian promenade on Cesar Chavez to only stare at this dead live oak."

He says it makes him uneasy when he jogs by the tree for fear it'll fall on him.

"You go look at it," the mayor said. "I'm nervous when I jog underneath it each day. I tend to speed up for about 50 feet."

So now what? After the city cuts down the tree, Stratus ought to chop up the tree and turn it into little desk-sized wooden souvenir condo replicas, sell them to tree-huggers for $80 a piece and get their $130,000 back.

Sean Freeman · 20th June 2009, 09:23 AM

Sometimes you come across stories from other parts of the world that make you stop and think about how we value things here (where ever here is for you)...this one about a tree relocation in China is a prime example.

The news story reported in the Sun Newspaper UK is less than positive (the Sun is a really poor quality paper)

Quote:

THIS looks beyond be-leaf.
But barmy planning chiefs are moving a 5,000 ton tree to make way for a new supermarket branch.
Chinese officials came up with the barking mad scheme to save the 386-year-old tree from being cut down.
And the plan is costing supermarket bosses £300,000 to move it just 70 yards in Shanghai, eastern China.
The 60ft tall tree is being moved on specially built rails at the rate of just ONE YARD a day to reduce the risk of destroying it through shock.
A spokesman for the company organising the move said: "It was important to take things very slowly to increase the tree's survival chances."
Experts from Shanghai Ancient Tree Research and Protection Institute examined the tree's age earlier this year and discovered it was nearly 400-years-old.

But this is what I call a ROOT BALL

phill ellison · 20th June 2009, 09:54 AM

thats a few dollars, you wonder why they don't just design the place on the other side and leave the trees where they are .

Ekka · 20th June 2009, 04:22 PM

In the grand scheme of things the price of moving that is SFA!

It's good to see China giving a shit about environmental issues, kudo's to the tree movers on that one.

Galbee · 22nd June 2009, 10:25 AM

wow amazing love to have seen that process from start to finish and yes the sun newspaper is generally not considered a serious one more of a joke than anything all upskirt shots and made up stories about this celeb or other.

treekiwi · 22nd June 2009, 06:31 PM

That is very impressive!! Very good to see that the Chinese are taking some initiative to save the tree, a very good size root ball too

should give it a fighting chance

23rd September 2008, 09:36 PM	#101
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Re: Large tree transplants Yes National Shade (aka Davey Tree Movers) really have some wicked tools, sandy soil profile there too. I would agree with you the root ball size is a big element in long term transplant success,a great many variables in that particular calculation too. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

23rd September 2008, 09:43 PM	#102
willem Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: the netherlands Posts: 168	Re: Large tree transplants davey treemovers, I will search the net and hopefully see some more action.

1st November 2008, 09:09 PM	#103
willem Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: the netherlands Posts: 168	Re: Large tree transplants Hello Sean, I have a question about the waterblaster you use in the begining of this thread. Does the power of high pressure water cut the roots or do you just blast away the soil. What are the machinespecifics?? How deep can you get in the soil without digging??

1st November 2008, 10:46 PM	#104
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Re: Large tree transplants On that job the machine generated just over 3000 psi, it did cut through many fine smaller roots anything over 20mm we clean cut. Side note on water blasters for Arb work, often the operator will cut through many roots bigger than 20mm, remove bark outer cambium from roots, both actions which tend to undermine the original tree protection intent in using the hydro-excavation technique in the first place! So careful discussion with the operator required prior to works commencing! I have reasonable experience with water blasters in various soil types they can excavate as deep as the wand is long but it does take time, is messy, and can be almost as destructive as excavation machinery if you are not careful. The intention is to remove the soil and expose the root system without causing extensive damage to root tissues to permit clean cutting of roots and if deemed necessary treatment of the cuts. Good operators with an appreciation of the need to protect root tissue can be very effective, and efficient. But sadly it is not the answer to all root problems, not by a long mark. In more recent works I have used pot-holing with hydro-excavation a very very useful means of locating the major structural roots and avoid destroying the supporting root plate when installing services etc. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

2nd November 2008, 09:03 PM	#105
willem Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: the netherlands Posts: 168	Re: Large tree transplants Sean thanks for the quick response. Could you please explain this last part: "In more recent works I have used pot-holing with hydro-excavation a very very useful means of locating the major structural roots and avoid destroying the supporting root plate when installing services etc." I think you are dealing here with the same problem I'm dealing with. Dammage to treeroots when replacing the existing sewersystem. A big problem in Holland because 80 % of our sewersystem has to be replaced in the next decades.

2nd November 2008, 10:29 PM	#107
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Re: Large tree transplants What I meant was that using hydro-excavation is quick, simple and relatively cheap means to confirm the location of the major roots in the ground. When services have to be located within the root zone it is sometimes possible to thread conduits under the root plate without trenching through the roots. Since we know that roots rarely follow the symmetrical idealised pattern shown in diagrams, sometimes previous works adjacent to trees, or the specific soil profile will result in very uneven root growth. Using the water blaster to open a small pothole in the specific location of proposed services is very efficient and effective. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

26th November 2008, 06:48 AM	#109
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,099	Re: Large tree transplants Good pics Willem What did you think of the ability of the ground penetrating radar to find roots? In the UK it has had mixed reception, also the price would seem to limit its use to the high profile bigger budget jobs....I have no personal experience of the radar. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

26th November 2008, 06:47 PM	#110
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Re: Large tree transplants Willem, that looks like dry excavation, maybe better as no mud! Maybe call it aero-vac or aerovation __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

1st February 2009, 03:34 PM	#112
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Re: Large tree transplants Regarding heavy pruning of transplants another thread started here. Heavy pruning prior to transplanting\| transplanting stumps\| Advanced Tree Transplant __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

20th June 2009, 09:54 AM	#115
phill ellison Mature tree Join Date: May 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 418	Re: Large tree transplants thats a few dollars, you wonder why they don't just design the place on the other side and leave the trees where they are .

20th June 2009, 04:22 PM	#116
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,100	Re: Large tree transplants In the grand scheme of things the price of moving that is SFA! It's good to see China giving a shit about environmental issues, kudo's to the tree movers on that one. __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge Members, click here for details on how you can acquire one for your website.

22nd June 2009, 10:25 AM	#117
Galbee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 822	Re: Large tree transplants wow amazing love to have seen that process from start to finish and yes the sun newspaper is generally not considered a serious one more of a joke than anything all upskirt shots and made up stories about this celeb or other. __________________ In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king

22nd June 2009, 06:31 PM	#118
treekiwi Certificate in Horticulture (Level 4) + Diploma in Arboriculture (Level 6) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 259	Re: Large tree transplants That is very impressive!! Very good to see that the Chinese are taking some initiative to save the tree, a very good size root ball too should give it a fighting chance __________________ www.urbantree.co.nz “For in the true nature of things, if we rightly consider, every green tree is far more glorious than if it were made of gold and silver.” Martin Luther

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