Foreign materials you have stump ground

Eric Frei · 14th August 2009, 12:57 AM

Post pics of the crap that has ended up chewed up by your stump grinder.

I'm on a roll, last 2 days have smashed a lot of teeth, seems steel and wire are very common ingredients to have in your tree stump!

Yesterday it was reo in 2 stumps, reo burlap!

Today, well have a look.

Done it · 14th August 2009, 01:58 AM

I already posted this one.

Today I got about 12ft of chain about 6" down. He was watching and said later, [Sorry, that's where I used to keep my trailer.]

Eric Frei · 14th August 2009, 02:03 AM

I'm seriously thinking of getting a metal detector.

I once (with a Dosko) had a 40mm dia steel pipe go into the machine and bend the shaft, buckle the cutter wheel ... cost almost $1500 to rebuild the front end.

Today I didn't count all the rocks, concrete and bricks in the ground. In Queensland it was common practice that after building the house all the rubble was spread into the gardens, a little topsoil and WELLA. I think they made a law around 1999 that builders had to put their shit in a skip instead of a monumental pile of debris onsite to be spread around, and they had to also have a portaloo.

You put new teeth in and smash them up, hopefully that's all you smash.

Apocalypsse · 14th August 2009, 08:46 AM

Weve hit everything you can find on a building site. Inside the stump theres been metal, wire, bricks, concrete. Found some rubbish in the middle of an 80yo stump. Worst thing was the Rayco picked up an old tractor clutch, small, weighs a few kg, left a big nasty dent under the machine as it flew out, damaged a few teeth in the process.

TrevMcRev · 14th August 2009, 10:06 AM

I've hit all the usual unusual things you find underground.

Have also been warned don't go too deep on that one, the dog was buried there!

kiwi_tree_steve · 14th August 2009, 07:12 PM

heres sum pics of sum stumps i axed out last week.
i hit a water pipe 6 weeks back fun lol...... we kinda knew it was there but, custy said to go ahead, was a hedge we removed, damm there was some rocks, and all kind of objects down there!

Foreign materials you have stump ground-20090807-004.jpg

Foreign materials you have stump ground-20090807-006.jpg

Foreign materials you have stump ground-20090807-010.jpg

Foreign materials you have stump ground-20090807-011.jpg

Foreign materials you have stump ground-20090807-017.jpg

sry ekka, maby you can insert them for me i still havent sussed it out yet

i suppose ive been around long enuf to make my own coffee

Eric Frei · 14th August 2009, 07:17 PM

teach a man to fish ......

How to post| add a picture or file| embed picture

Done it · 16th August 2009, 01:27 AM

Today was just the usual concrete & bricks, drives me mad around here. The old houses have buried gardens and brickwork and the later ones buried everything.

I just run 1/2" teeth, because of that. Got a good deal on them, still gets me though. Every time I put new ones on.

Grizzly · 18th August 2009, 04:36 PM

Was stump ginding a ash tree in this lady front yard a while I was grinding it turned out theat the tree had grown arround the old metal sprinkler system and I ended up braking teeth denting the deflection cover and eventually sheering the bold on the cutter wheel. Even a dosko is no match to old metal pipes

Oldtimer · 20th August 2009, 09:41 AM

Eric Idea of the metal detector may be a money saver in the long run not only by reducing the potential personal injury from one of those pieces of metal flying into the operator's face or nearby "viewers".

You guys are supposed to remove stumps not be metal junk finders - jajaja.

Anybody has actually found anything valuable yet by accident?

Steve Tipton · 20th August 2009, 11:05 PM

Shit yeah! I found a sixpence once, about 5 cents.

Didn't hurt the teeth, though.

JohN Dee · 23rd August 2009, 05:02 PM

Man last sunday night i was reading this thread going aww jeez I havn't hit nothing this bad.......!!!!!!

So anyways next day in hurstville we took out a $300 bottle brush tree (piece of piss) had to grind just below surface and remove surface roots.. Backed up the 110hp tow behind vermeer grinder (sporting about 50 - 100 teeth [havn't counted them tbh]) Started grinding the surface root about 2 inches below ground, came back on the slew... BANG CHUGGA CHUGGA CLUNK CLUNK BUMP BUMP! Hit a gas main!!!!

Sheered off 14 teeth, all 12 main cutters... Fugged up all the carbide tips and then some... Went from an easy break even $300 job to costing the company $500...

Council for some stupid reason dug up the gas main earlier then recovered it with dirt and the PATCH OF GRASS!!

Tell you what I'm glad that main was like ~3 inches of steel didn't even grind an inch of it away... Woulda been a big fuggen BANG and I wouldn't be here telling the story.

Before

After

Willard Holmen · 27th August 2009, 07:10 AM

I don't have a picture of it [I would have have to go back to the neighbors kid that I gave it to]. A few years back I was grinding out a Manitoba maple stump when I found a defussed WW 2 pineapple style hand gernade. The guy next door said an old army vet lived there years back and probably threw it away because he never talked about the war, only once saying it was hell and wished he never experienced it.

Eric Frei · 20th October 2009, 10:58 AM

Just a horse shoe and reo yesterday, but check out the crater I made!

stirmantrees · 20th October 2009, 01:40 PM

once had a piece of rebar(reo i think) go flying about 20-30 feet in front of the vermeer track machine. no safety glasses would have stopped that thing

Apocalypsse · 22nd October 2009, 10:56 AM

A few weeks back doing a stump in somes front yard, pretty sure it was some kind of pine tree. There was this huge metal ring around the stump, like the size of a 4WD tyre but only as thick as a sugar cube. The roots had grown over the top so we had to grind those off carefully to pull the ring out.

Eric Frei · 26th October 2009, 06:52 PM

Chainwire fence in stump.

Garry Brockley · 29th October 2009, 08:40 AM

Damn! that stuff will rip your teeth to shreds, had a mango tree yesterday that had so much steel work in the base of the trunk i talked the customer into not grinding it. star pickets plural, regos, and a huge steel plate that ran all the way through it and possibly concrete i didnt investigate as close once i saw the star pickets, its mental what people do to their trees and wonder why they fail or die.

Eric Frei · 29th October 2009, 09:41 AM

LOL, it's like find a mango tree without half a house engulfed in it!

It's one of those trees that people love to build cubby's in and lean shit against the trunk that gets encased.

stihlrockin200t · 2nd November 2009, 02:31 AM

a rim for a tire that was grown into and inside the tree at the stump. couldnt see it from the outside of the stump untill the grinder hit it.

Cole · 3rd November 2009, 08:09 PM

not sure on the credability of this i was once told a guy in canberra was grinding and apparently found the family pet graveyard

Eric Frei · 8th March 2011, 08:21 PM

How about cast iron BBQ burners!

Eric Frei · 27th March 2011, 10:22 PM

Grinding out the silkyoak stump right in the middle and deep I hit the ole steel rebar real good and had to so I could pull the bugger out.

The other thing you can see ... I saw before I ground it, what is it? Something to do with railroads? Glad I got to it before the machine did.

Garry Brockley · 28th March 2011, 08:31 AM

holly crap eric thats one huge peice of stee!l if you had hit that you would have lost all your teeth, was that in the silky oak?

Eric Frei · 28th March 2011, 08:58 AM

Yeah, between the buttresses buried in mulch/soil. I kicked around the stump first and there it was.

Eric Frei · 28th March 2011, 08:03 PM

Just a galv water pipe today.

treeshaveneeds · 6th April 2011, 07:08 AM

Like HolmenTree I found a hand grenade -- just the shell one day - but the client wanted to keep it.

Bottles are nasty - you just hear a little poof and there's glass everywhere.

I think the worst stump I have done was an old Manitoba Maple stump, that because of all the stumps had to dig it out - and then kept hitting rocks. When we finally got it out (down 3 1/2 feet and a 7 foot diameter hole) with rocks all around, the client's daughter mentioned that was where the old fire pit was, and the Manitoba Maple grew up from the middle after they buried it all with soil.

TrevMcRev · 9th April 2011, 11:51 AM

This tree had everything but the kitchen sink...well hot and cold taps at least!

spers · 11th April 2011, 09:41 AM

i once hit a penny believe it or not and that thing flew like a bullet and smashed a double pain patio door.cost me 750 bucks wasnt a profitable job to say the leased.

aimee · 27th May 2011, 11:38 PM

I work in a town run by RIO TINTO which means for any stumpgrinding job i have to have 3 service maps a dig permit, permit to work and a JHA not much chances of hitting pipes but we get alot of star pickets, big rocks- one guy got hit in the dick and alot of the time we find giant old stumps underneath the coppice growth, 15 min job turns into 1 hour. good times

14th August 2009, 12:57 AM	#1
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Foreign materials you have stump ground Post pics of the crap that has ended up chewed up by your stump grinder. I'm on a roll, last 2 days have smashed a lot of teeth, seems steel and wire are very common ingredients to have in your tree stump! Yesterday it was reo in 2 stumps, reo burlap! Today, well have a look. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

14th August 2009, 01:58 AM	#2
Done it Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Australia. Posts: 784	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground I already posted this one. Today I got about 12ft of chain about 6" down. He was watching and said later, [Sorry, that's where I used to keep my trailer.] Attached Thumbnails

14th August 2009, 02:03 AM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground I'm seriously thinking of getting a metal detector. I once (with a Dosko) had a 40mm dia steel pipe go into the machine and bend the shaft, buckle the cutter wheel ... cost almost $1500 to rebuild the front end. Today I didn't count all the rocks, concrete and bricks in the ground. In Queensland it was common practice that after building the house all the rubble was spread into the gardens, a little topsoil and WELLA. I think they made a law around 1999 that builders had to put their shit in a skip instead of a monumental pile of debris onsite to be spread around, and they had to also have a portaloo. You put new teeth in and smash them up, hopefully that's all you smash. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

14th August 2009, 08:46 AM	#4
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,154	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Weve hit everything you can find on a building site. Inside the stump theres been metal, wire, bricks, concrete. Found some rubbish in the middle of an 80yo stump. Worst thing was the Rayco picked up an old tractor clutch, small, weighs a few kg, left a big nasty dent under the machine as it flew out, damaged a few teeth in the process.

14th August 2009, 10:06 AM	#5
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground I've hit all the usual unusual things you find underground. Have also been warned don't go too deep on that one, the dog was buried there!

14th August 2009, 07:12 PM	#6
kiwi_tree_steve Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: BC. Canada Posts: 325	heres sum pics of sum stumps i axed out last week. i hit a water pipe 6 weeks back fun lol...... we kinda knew it was there but, custy said to go ahead, was a hedge we removed, damm there was some rocks, and all kind of objects down there! sry ekka, maby you can insert them for me i still havent sussed it out yet i suppose ive been around long enuf to make my own coffee __________________ "You have to feel and touch a tree" Shigo Last edited by Eric Frei; 14th August 2009 at 07:54 PM. Reason: he learned how to embed the pics

14th August 2009, 07:17 PM	#7
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground teach a man to fish ...... How to post\| add a picture or file\| embed picture __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th August 2009, 01:27 AM	#8
Done it Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Australia. Posts: 784	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Today was just the usual concrete & bricks, drives me mad around here. The old houses have buried gardens and brickwork and the later ones buried everything. I just run 1/2" teeth, because of that. Got a good deal on them, still gets me though. Every time I put new ones on.

18th August 2009, 04:36 PM	#9
Grizzly Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California Posts: 45	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Was stump ginding a ash tree in this lady front yard a while I was grinding it turned out theat the tree had grown arround the old metal sprinkler system and I ended up braking teeth denting the deflection cover and eventually sheering the bold on the cutter wheel. Even a dosko is no match to old metal pipes __________________

20th August 2009, 09:41 AM	#10
Oldtimer Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Austin TX Posts: 102	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Eric Idea of the metal detector may be a money saver in the long run not only by reducing the potential personal injury from one of those pieces of metal flying into the operator's face or nearby "viewers". You guys are supposed to remove stumps not be metal junk finders - jajaja. Anybody has actually found anything valuable yet by accident?

20th August 2009, 11:05 PM	#11
Steve Tipton Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 823	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Shit yeah! I found a sixpence once, about 5 cents. Didn't hurt the teeth, though. __________________ Heightmaster

23rd August 2009, 05:02 PM	#12
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Man last sunday night i was reading this thread going aww jeez I havn't hit nothing this bad.......!!!!!! So anyways next day in hurstville we took out a $300 bottle brush tree (piece of piss) had to grind just below surface and remove surface roots.. Backed up the 110hp tow behind vermeer grinder (sporting about 50 - 100 teeth [havn't counted them tbh]) Started grinding the surface root about 2 inches below ground, came back on the slew... BANG CHUGGA CHUGGA CLUNK CLUNK BUMP BUMP! Hit a gas main!!!! Sheered off 14 teeth, all 12 main cutters... Fugged up all the carbide tips and then some... Went from an easy break even $300 job to costing the company $500... Council for some stupid reason dug up the gas main earlier then recovered it with dirt and the PATCH OF GRASS!! Tell you what I'm glad that main was like ~3 inches of steel didn't even grind an inch of it away... Woulda been a big fuggen BANG and I wouldn't be here telling the story. Before After Attached Thumbnails __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

27th August 2009, 07:10 AM	#13
Willard Holmen Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Manitoba, Canada Posts: 649	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground I don't have a picture of it [I would have have to go back to the neighbors kid that I gave it to]. A few years back I was grinding out a Manitoba maple stump when I found a defussed WW 2 pineapple style hand gernade. The guy next door said an old army vet lived there years back and probably threw it away because he never talked about the war, only once saying it was hell and wished he never experienced it.

20th October 2009, 10:58 AM	#14
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Just a horse shoe and reo yesterday, but check out the crater I made! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

20th October 2009, 01:40 PM	#15
stirmantrees Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: oviedo, fl Posts: 469	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground once had a piece of rebar(reo i think) go flying about 20-30 feet in front of the vermeer track machine. no safety glasses would have stopped that thing

22nd October 2009, 10:56 AM	#16
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,154	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground A few weeks back doing a stump in somes front yard, pretty sure it was some kind of pine tree. There was this huge metal ring around the stump, like the size of a 4WD tyre but only as thick as a sugar cube. The roots had grown over the top so we had to grind those off carefully to pull the ring out.

26th October 2009, 06:52 PM	#17
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Chainwire fence in stump. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

29th October 2009, 08:40 AM	#18
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,649	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Damn! that stuff will rip your teeth to shreds, had a mango tree yesterday that had so much steel work in the base of the trunk i talked the customer into not grinding it. star pickets plural, regos, and a huge steel plate that ran all the way through it and possibly concrete i didnt investigate as close once i saw the star pickets, its mental what people do to their trees and wonder why they fail or die. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

29th October 2009, 09:41 AM	#19
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground LOL, it's like find a mango tree without half a house engulfed in it! It's one of those trees that people love to build cubby's in and lean shit against the trunk that gets encased. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd November 2009, 02:31 AM	#20
stihlrockin200t Sappling Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: saginaw mi. Posts: 26	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground a rim for a tire that was grown into and inside the tree at the stump. couldnt see it from the outside of the stump untill the grinder hit it. __________________ Git-R-Done Stihl: MS200T-14'' muffler modded slightly MS192TC-14'' just a backup MS361-20'' and 28'' MS441-32'' MS660 MS880 access to many others and much more

3rd November 2009, 08:09 PM	#21
Cole Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Canberra Posts: 215	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground not sure on the credability of this i was once told a guy in canberra was grinding and apparently found the family pet graveyard

8th March 2011, 08:21 PM	#22
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground How about cast iron BBQ burners! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

27th March 2011, 10:22 PM	#23
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Grinding out the silkyoak stump right in the middle and deep I hit the ole steel rebar real good and had to so I could pull the bugger out. The other thing you can see ... I saw before I ground it, what is it? Something to do with railroads? Glad I got to it before the machine did. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

28th March 2011, 08:31 AM	#24
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,649	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground holly crap eric thats one huge peice of stee!l if you had hit that you would have lost all your teeth, was that in the silky oak? __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

28th March 2011, 08:58 AM	#25
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Yeah, between the buttresses buried in mulch/soil. I kicked around the stump first and there it was. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

28th March 2011, 08:03 PM	#26
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Just a galv water pipe today. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

6th April 2011, 07:08 AM	#27
treeshaveneeds Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,399	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground Like HolmenTree I found a hand grenade -- just the shell one day - but the client wanted to keep it. Bottles are nasty - you just hear a little poof and there's glass everywhere. I think the worst stump I have done was an old Manitoba Maple stump, that because of all the stumps had to dig it out - and then kept hitting rocks. When we finally got it out (down 3 1/2 feet and a 7 foot diameter hole) with rocks all around, the client's daughter mentioned that was where the old fire pit was, and the Manitoba Maple grew up from the middle after they buried it all with soil. __________________ My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports Consulting Forester If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too ! We do great jobs, even in small yards. Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered) Email -- treeshaveneeds@3web.com Cell 416-460-5704

9th April 2011, 11:51 AM	#28
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground This tree had everything but the kitchen sink...well hot and cold taps at least! Attached Thumbnails

11th April 2011, 09:41 AM	#29
spers Sappling Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: CANADA Posts: 24	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground i once hit a penny believe it or not and that thing flew like a bullet and smashed a double pain patio door.cost me 750 bucks wasnt a profitable job to say the leased.

27th May 2011, 11:38 PM	#30
aimee Sappling Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: bingil bay Posts: 24	Re: Foreign materials you have stump ground I work in a town run by RIO TINTO which means for any stumpgrinding job i have to have 3 service maps a dig permit, permit to work and a JHA not much chances of hitting pipes but we get alot of star pickets, big rocks- one guy got hit in the dick and alot of the time we find giant old stumps underneath the coppice growth, 15 min job turns into 1 hour. good times

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pricing jobs-- flat price versus hourly rate plus materials	southsoundtree	General Tree Chat	4	18th October 2008 05:52 PM
Had maple stump ground last night. Pic's	munderhill	Picture Forum	1	16th October 2008 10:19 PM
Hazardous Materials	Knotahippie	Non Tree Related chat	0	23rd September 2008 03:46 PM
best foreign supply houses	old dude	Tree machinery and equipment	8	8th January 2008 04:15 AM
USA: Red Bay Trees Succumbing To Foreign Beetle And Unknown Fungus	Eric Frei	General Tree Chat	3	20th April 2007 10:00 AM