Dog tooth hinge cut

Victor Lindsay

I've never heard anyone talk about the advantages to the Dog tooth hinge cut. It's the same as the bore cut, but you cut about one inch under the strap, not straight out from the bore cut. Here are a few photos of the hinge. I used it for a heavy leaner. Has anyone ever used it?

Attached Thumbnails

         

Eric Frei

Never heard it being called that before however the standard strap release is pretty much what you have there.

The technique where people bore the back cut to the hinge then keep cutting away from the hinge through the back and the tree goes (no strap release) isn't really called anything and not really "endorsed" much here other than a bored back cut. Either type or variation of that back cut is generally used on forward weighted/leaning trees.

The orthodox method is the strap release so the operator is not in harms way and the bar cant get caught with the tree going over.

Some argue that the strap release should be equal or below the rest of the back cut, just below is the right way, and in your pics 1" below would be OK too.

So were the palms leaning or you just wanted to demo/try something?

Sometimes if I have a lot of pretension on a pull rope I strap release also, might have for example an excavator pulling hard on it due to a lean etc ...

... in this video I use a strap release as the trees were slightly back leaning and the excavator driver was a full on pull type of guy.

Brisbane Land Clearance Job

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bill24

VL / EKKA,

This type of technique is taught at Forestec in Vic. Is 'the' falling method for badly leaning trees.

Benefits.........won't slab as it may if felled by normal back cut, therefore won't damage an otherwise good mill log.

Drouin Tree Service

Good to do on a back weighted tree under load from a pulling rope..

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

bill24

Bother, pressed something by mistake before finished post.........

Other benefit............safer for faller as the back of tree can come up towards faller and catch his hands or worse when it pivots several metres up from scarfe.

Found a logging contractor at the edge of a mountain stream 25+ yrs ago with hand wrapped in a wet towel. A tree had 'slabbed' on him and caught his hand against the saw, he ended up with about a dozen or so stitches in it, but was still in the local that night having a beer.

Tough man, experienced faller.

Technique is similiar to VL pics, but cuts different angles. Will try to explain:-

a/ Normal scarfe, approx 25% - 33% of diameter.

b/ Estimate amount of hinge wood to be left and distance above scarfe, say 100mm for example, bore in parrallel to hinge wood, or on bigger tree just cut approx. one third of the way around back cut.

c/ Go to other side, repeat re above cut parrallel to hinge and for about one third of back cut again.
The two parts of the back cut, from each side, may meet up in the middle and it is best if they do.

d/ Commence third part of backcut about say, 50mm under other two parts of back cut, and parrallel to hinge wood.

The lean of the tree will pull any uncut wood apart and the log will fall
cleanly...........if you can follow what I mean.

Similiar to VL method, but on big trees probably allows for more controlled release at the final part of the back cut.

Eric Frei

Bill,

That sounds to me like the tree was larger than chainsaw bar and with an exaggerated strap release. Depending on the lean and type of timber (slabbing style vs solid) the amount of strap can vary, especially when dealing with really thick barked trees.

At around 5mins into the video of the first post here I did one to. 8 hazardous gum felling by Palm & Tree Services Brisbane

I have cut that little bit out and loaded it here, the tree was an ironbark with deep furrowed bark and the saw a ms660. As you can see there wasn't a lot of room for the bar width, scarf and strap but it worked out, the trees have to have enough dia for the scarf, hinge, bore cut and strap release. I suppose when they dont you can then continue cutting out toward the back of the tree and not bother with the strap.

Attached Files

borestraprelease.wmv (2.13 MB, 208 views)

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bill24

God demo' EKKA.

I would have stood on the uphill side of that tree, the ergonomics of the saw would have then put you further back behind the tree and its easier on operator, not to mention safer.

The operators position is always safer if he makes the last of the back cut from the outside of the tree.

Good discussion and video on this falling technique, hope its been of some benefit to VL.

Eric Frei

Then you would have been standing on loose just laid turf and butted up against a barb wire fence.

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bill24

I give up------

(BTW, are you and my wife related, she has an answer for just about every thing and I can't win an argument with her either)



all the best, B24.

Eric Frei

LOL, didn't know we were arguing, just it's hard to (even on video) capture everything.

The most common thing with video and pictures is it makes everything look flatter than it is, it skews distances out also.

The tree had a whacko half dead kink in it, no doubt when it hit the ground would roll atleast a half turn somewhere.

It was also intermingled a little with other trees and could fall slightly off gun. It also had a decay.

To choose a good escape path meant not getting trapped or caught on stuff, that was the best way to go, flatter and less trip hazardous etc.

New turf dropped on top of bush rocky dust just been flood irrigated means as you walk on it on a hill it slides and bunches up like some boot eating wild carpet whilst pissing the customer off.

However, your post does point out that thinking is better than just doing without thinking. Assess each tree and site for it's best getaway and I feel comfortable using a saw in pretty much any angle or method, whether I cut from right left up or down doesn't matter, to me it's all about the get away, not tripping, falling, snagging on barbed wire etc.

I have also learned, and taken some time to, that it's best to ask than assume. Just like here in this post. Assuming can make an ASS-U-ME (ass out of you and me), an easy trap and one that I try hard to not do as much anymore unless some-ones really got it coming to them.

I loved the old Columbo detective bloke, he dottered around like some halfwit asking the dumbest of questions to catch out crooks. He'd even ask the crook (for example), "tell me, if you were to rob a bank would you try to disguise your voice knowing that other tellers would recognise it every day you worked there?" Cunning little bugger he was.

VL knows the cut, he has shown that, just has an unusual name for it. We're just discussing the applications and variations and why ... that's what we do as working tree people, and many people do this bore cut thing and have no idea why. In fact, it appears to becoming the new standard felling technique in Europe regardless of tree lean.

Some of the reasoning for that is ...

1/ Set up hinge correctly without premature release
2/ Prevent barber chairs
3/ Easier escape for operator
4/ Strap release allows timing and control ... you decide when the tree goes over.
5/ Wedges insert into cut without saw in there reducing probability of "sitback" on chainsaw or belting wedges into the bar

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Victor Lindsay

I used this techq. on a back leaner. You can see the fence in one of the photos, was unable work from that yard. Very expensive boat in that yard too, and it was a target. Made my face cut, put some tention on the palm, bore cut, double checked the tention, (not something you can do with just a back cut) then cut the strap. Safe and controlled. So for this application, I used it for control and better chance of escape, (not that you need escape for palms, just habit) I've also used it after storms, when trees are leaning over, and the fear of barber chair. Lots of tention! I've used it maybe five times in ten years. Its good to have techq in my tool box.

I've also seen the strap cut about one inch below at an upward angle, creating a tooth looking shape on release.

good stuff!

bill24

Any comments made by me re this falling technique were made with VL's question in mind, and to help him understand what I reckon is the safest and best way to do it, on trees of all sizes, and for future reference.

In summary VL, good job that worked for you and yes, it is widely used.

There is a better falling technique for slightly back leaners that can be taken over against the lean and directed very accurately, without anything more than wedge and axe/hammer.

Note: slight back leaners, not severe.

Also other falling techniques that make sitting back on bar and hitting wedge with chain in the cut impossible.

I wouldn't want to assume you don't already know all these so will say no more at this stage.

Victor Lindsay

Thanks for the input guys. I started this thread to have experts critique my technq. When I have time to take photos, TreeWorld is where i post.

I've spent alot of money on education, and the cowboys down here don't have a clue. Last week I saw a tree company send there climber up a tree with nothing. No rope, saddle, hardhat, nothing but a chainsaw, and he used it one handed. I cann't ask them about my technq. TreeWorld!

Eric Frei

WTF! You know some of the messages I get out of the States is incredible, from Kansas farm boys being disposable to this sort of rubbish.

And I cannot fathom it that it just goes on and on in this day and age.

Maybe 1995 even the info wasn't out there and the net was just born but in todays world, just doesn't make sense.

VL, the education you spent money on, is it more than ISA cert Arb etc, like what have you been doing etc and why aren't others doing it?

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phill ellison

Bloody hell,I was doing that in the early 90s, I thought those days of tree climbing without any safety gear have gone, I cant even start a saw without my chainsaw pants on.

newguy18

No rope,saddle,just hang on and cut,was it this guy?

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old schooler

Knotahippie

Iv'e seen the dog tooth cut at a 45 from the back. Seen it this way?

Attached Thumbnails

 

Victor Lindsay

Thats what I call the dogtooth. Cutting the strap should start from under to prevent your chainsaw from going for a ride.

Victor Lindsay

VL, the education you spent money on, is it more than ISA cert Arb etc, like what have you been doing etc and why aren't others doing it?[/QUOTE]

For starters, yes, ISA cert. Every three years I need to get thirty hours of continued education, but I have three times that now. Every class that comes up, I sign up! I've taken class's from Dr. Gillman himself. At present I'm working on my Urban Forestry Technology Diploma. I have CEUs to satisfy for my Lic. from the Bureau of Entomology & pest control also. I'm always studing something. The wall in my office is lined with books, and books are not cheap. The only free class i get is on this forum.

corkie

has anyone got a video showing the cut

Eric Frei

The answer you seek has been provided, read thread again.

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second-gen_monkey

was it chonch? iv'e heard some bad stuff about their ground crew and safety ethics.

i'm no expert (training now with my father, a long time Native guy) but i ain't goin in a tree with no saddle and handsaw, i don't care what you pay me. as far as one handing, only when absolutely nessisary and only when i'm not in the kick zone. last year in houston texas i saw a worker of questionable legality (residentally as well as qualificationaly, if that's a word) climb a 36' fiberglass ladder with nothing more than a machette and a prayer, stand on the top rung and proceede to hack fronds over his head off of a royal palm. i was going to continue watching but really didn't want to see someone die.

as for the cut technique, nice. i've been practicing plunge cuts on logs about seven feet or so buried two feet on end for a total of five. this lets me practice using only debris that we've hauled from jobs and controll the angle and weight. i don't know if it's a common practice but i find this recycling of wood usefull beyond almost anything else i use to train/ practice. i don't have to wait for a job to present a chance to try something and i don't have to worry about destroying customer property.

pomme

Thats a dog tooth cut. Its the same shape as dog tooth check of the sixties fashion

lezah20

I've seen that and it's great

DHernandez

We use it all he time in the uk and is part of the nch and NPTC felling units for trees waited against the felling direction. Nice cut on pics