big oak removal

kiwi_tree_steve

Very good talking point, i tend to feel that its hard to take away the perceived "rights" of the current owner to choose what to do with sum thing that most truly feel they own.
In my opinion these dynamic beings that we care for each day are no more ours than the " owners" they are part to our environment, and should be treated that way, no direct ownership, and firm clear regulations to work with............................hah ahah ah that will never happen tho....will it

nice to wounder tho......

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"You have to feel and touch a tree" Shigo

Eric Frei

If that were a gum tree then who'd be arguing taking it out? Not many Aussies that's for sure.

Big old trees like that are so self lions tailed that nibbling the photosynthetics off the ends to reduce weight is a wank! We're not talking about wind sail here we're talking limb drop due to own weight. Then if too much leaf is removed you shunt along an even faster negative cycle.

Take limbs back to a node, get ya magnifying glasses out to find one on some honking 18" dia branch. Cut limbs off back at the trunk?

Sort of a bit screwed here in that location, I bet all parties considered the "what if", what if it did fail or a huge hunk busted off? Yep, cables and fall arrests is the only answer, however all the rigging points are above that wound.

I wasn't there, but I can understand everyones angle .... do remember though the house you see in that pic is not the tree owners house.

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treevet

Very good points of contention, remedy, lack of remedy and prevention, that one would expect from top level arborists.

Although lightning was mentioned, it does not appear to have the characteristics of a lightning strike. A big bolt of lightning lights up the area and a huge clap of thunder right over head often makes the HO's assume it was lightning and I have witnessed this a load of times. Many times this is in conjunction with a brief blow of extreme wind and, in this case, with no evidence of a streak or path of damage on the tree or somewhere where it jumped off the tree and into house or another tree etc. it might in reality have just been the wind that tore this section off by flexing at the point of decay. The wound caused is akin to a huge flush cut.

But if it was lightning then a preventative lightning system could have likely eliminated the damage. But what about the decay it exposed (again not quantified). Like Trev said, in a perfect world maybe the ho is forced to install the appropriate lightning system, cable (looks like there was no cable op here tho) or incremented pruning over the years. Maybe the local government would even have to subsidize this through ordinance.

I have told this story before and I have more of them but a neighbor's 500 plus yr old Bur oak had some cables installed before I was involved with the tree that were much too small diameter (1/4 inch believe it or not). One by one they snapped and giant leaders fell of the 150 foot tall oak and left huge wounds. The owner refused to double pay and replace them at my urging.

The local government should have intervened at my suggestion (they haven't a clue about dick about tree care). With a new owner, Finally the tree was hit by a wind shear that squashed the south side of the house. A 21 ton crane right next to the house couldn't budge the branch off the house and blew black smoke. There were splits in other co doms and one that threatened to squash the rest of the house.

The new owners talked with many tree people and I was the only one that even considered not removing the tree. It was a life threatening job in the extreme with a crane and climbing so I put a life threatening price on it. That was about 6 or 7 years ago and the tree is doing fine as I cut it in half to laterals and put in some cables. But now the tree is being neglected by the ho again when it is in need of sprout reduction and decay checking.

Every month I sit in my UFB meeting and the city rep. tells me that they are reluctant to get involved in any legislation of this type on private (not public) property (liability concerns, etc I assume). What else is there to do.

Eric Frei

I received a call from a lawyer today.

What happened is that their client who has a boat in a garage beneath the neighbours huge gum tree had it crushed when a huge limb fell off. A honking huge limb busted off the tree and smashed the "victims" garage and boat to bits, expected costs is $50K. The "victim" went to claim on their insurance and guess what ... they didn't pay their renewal so no insurance.

That's where the lawyer comes in, the lawyer is acting for the "victim" and wants to claim on the tree owners insurance (the neighbour), but the tree owners insurance said it was an unforeseeable event act of God stuff, also the failing tree parts were not their side of the fence. So that insurance company said, "no claim". The lawyer now with a client who has copped $50k damage wants to sue the neighbour (inherently the insurance company).

So the lawyer calls me and initially asks for report that states, "all large river gums drop big limbs" ... of course I refused any such nonsense. Now I could write another 5000 words on this conversation that lasted 30 minutes however the issue is that when the shit hits the fan everyone is looking to blame some-one other than themselves. I told the lawyer that the "victim" (her client) was responsible for any tree parts that came over the fence line and since they had most to lose in the event of a failure they should have engaged an arborist etc for remedial works or a report to inform the tree owner of issues. Had that have been done then they might have a case for negligence because the tree owner is now informed not ignorant. If you have trees that can impact upon your property then you have an obligation to check them, if you own trees that can impact other peoples properties then you should check them .... this is called responsible tree management not buck passing hoping your insurance company or lawyer bails your lame ass out.

Just another angle on this case, the home owner you see beneath that tree is also entitled to do whatever the hell they want with anything that trespasses the boundary line.

Last I checked the food chain humans are on top, then their property then the trees ... never ever forget that.

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stirmantrees

almost there

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stirmantrees

maintain that attitude

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stirmantrees

The big finish



Think I should of asked the neighbors permission?????????????
lol

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treevet

Why not just piece out the rest of it while you got the crane there and eliminate any worries? Didn't I see this pict. somewhere else a while ago?

Should have been a decent pay off on that one? Want to kiss and tell?

Also wondering why you are tied into the tree while in the basket?

stirmantrees

Well those are some good questions. The positioning of everything( tree, crane, lean of tree, hingewood, length of tree, wood to dock it up with, under ground gas tank, size of crane, wall, etc) made it a viable option once we got to this point. I have done my share of using big saws aloft and as much as I would have like to impress everybody with that. Me and the crane operator talked it out and decided to go with bridging the driveway.
I was also sticking these in bins and cutting exactly 20 foot lengths at that position is very difficult. especially through hardwood such as live oak.

yes you saw it in the announcements section discussing mr. know it all tree cutter extrodinaire. (village man)

big payoff, perfect execution. landed perfect, 70 ton crane, 64,000 pound log on the computer scales with the butt still on the ground a little. bridged the driveway with no damage.

stirmantrees

treevet, not to get off subject but, what kind of boom truck is that. I was raised on boom trucks. Big brother loved his. looks sweet

treevet

I guess you are talking about the avatar. It is a 51 Ford wrecker I altered to load logs into a dump truck. I ran out of room from all the stuff I am buying and this, not being used much, got sold. I had it for about 25 years. Good conversation piece on jobs.

Nice job Stirman. We do those size of crane jobs all the time.

newguy18

Which is why you need my flatbed Dave.

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old schooler

stirmantrees

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Eric Frei

Certainly a job you'll never forget.

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stirmantrees

you got that right

Gunslinger

Wouldn't OSHA require a fall arrest harness tied into the bucket for this work?

stirmantrees

yes. I sometimes tie in to the basket with my regular gear in case i need to bail and repel to the ground. where a fall arrest - save your life - where a fall arrest - get killed - tie in to the basket - save your life - tie in to the basket - get killed. I have heard of different kinds of accidents which would require a different approach. recently i have incorporated both on some projects. good eye

no arguments though. three years ago i did this job. i still am learning after 16 years. although no one is going to tell me something i dont know concerning basket safety it is still good to point out what you would deem as unsafe.

are you going to turn me in

treevet

Just seems like with the tree tie in while in the basket as in a picture.....you might go down and pull yourself right out of the basket. You are tied into the tree because you do not trust the bucket I suppose.

Today I heard a PhD talking about the emergence of a peer's work. Interesting to hear in this context that it is LITERALLY the JOB of his contemporaries.....to tear the work apart until....if it finally stands on it's own....it becomes a published work.

Don't worry about a little constructive criticism here. We all get it and this is a very high level crowd here for the most part.

Good luck.

Gunslinger

Not me.

As I mentioned in the PM I'm OSHA certified in construction safety. Harnesses and being tied in with a lanyard is a must for this type of work. Around here we had two guys killed recently when a truck hit the portion of the lift that was on the street. Two workers were thrown to the ground and died. A third, who was harnessed and tied in lived. Sometimes an unforeseen event, completely unrelated to what you're doing, can have catastrophic effect on a worker.

treevet

I have also read in the past of a few accidents where the basket became lodged under a branch without the op knowing. When the op was trying to find out why it was slow moving it jumped out from being compressed under the branch it shot them out like a pea being shot from a spoon. dead

spartek

Hey Stirman, what was your final price for that job , and did you happen to get the actual age of the tree?

stirmantrees

I was in a bit of a compromised position so i elected to tie in to the tree for this cut(or 2). I know that these booms if they get bumped with a big log or compressed then wham you go flying. I figured if I was tied in to the tree for this cut(or 2) that if i did get bumped or whatever then i be good. I know, very unusual isnt it. I actually do alot of things to be safe that may take more time or seem unorthodox but i am just trying to stay one step ahead of the tree. I wander what osha would say about that seeing as i am tied in to the tree and in the bucket? wouldn't want to do both of those at the same time though. could be the first guy ripped in half by a bucket and tree at the same time.



glad to be considered a peer

i was and am expecting it. If we are to call this a professional forum then it should be mandatory.
it only hurt for a little bit

stirmantrees

better?

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stirmantrees

13,000 for everything. the removal and disposal. deep stump grind for planting a small tree in the vicinity and hauling of all the stump shavings.
4 day project - 2 day brush out, 1 day 35 ton - 1 day 70 ton. (i was fortunate to get a 70 ton for a 35 ton rate on day three for 7 hours or so and then when he hooked up to the big stinker i got the $210 times 7 or 8 hour minimum charge and we worked right till dark. (Must be nice for a crane service to charge a 1450 minimum for 2 hours of work. Couldn't do it without them. atleast not without taking forever blocking the stump over the gas tank

My brother was working the wood (tables,bar tables, etc) so i still have the stump to access if i should try to determine the age. I took tons of pictures of the stump with a pretty good digital camera. Can you help me determine the age? love to know. Had to be a couple of hundred for sure.

stirmantrees

i had to put this in. I know i probably look stupid but it is what it is. For this forum it must certainly come in as maybe the 351st biggest tree in the picture forum but it is the biggest one i ever took down. I am definitely not osha approved on this one.
I know where a couple bigger than this one are and i am trying to get on board just so no one messes them up. They almost need nothing and i am sure someone will try to strip them the ends I'll let you know if I get them and you guys can be apart of how they get treated.

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Apocalypsse

oH god a stump like that would take forever to grind, especially going deep. That would fill up our 10m3 truck for sure. I would go nuts doing that stump.

treevet

Since your name is Stirman and the company name is Stirmantrees (I think)....don't think OSHA has $hit to say about what the company owner does in regards to safety practices.

OSHA is designed to protect employees from employer's unsafe work practices.

treevet

Don't forget another option....no treatment at all.

As Shigo used to say, sometimes we are lovin' these trees to death.

Sean Freeman

Very true, and sadly very often ignored

stirmantrees

you two guys nailed it on the head.
Minor elevation over structures(there really close to the houses)
remove deadwood(couple of large dead bramches that pose a threat i saw)
minor and i mean minor removal of lower half epicormic branches if the client desires a cleaner look. I mean like 1/2 inch diameter suckers and not up high at all.
These two trees are giants. I think there both over 10 foot dbh. Massive branching structure for live oaks. huge at the top of the trunk, huge and beautiful. I have practically offered my services for free so no one messes them up. God i hope no one ruins them.
Both have some bark falling of of a center leader and i hope to get some pictures to you guys. I think it would be an honor to have your input.
I have become well respected among one particular city forester because i have actually told clients the truth. like why do you want to ruin this tree? leave it alone. This got back around to him and well lets just say it has been a positive impact on my career.

These trees are absolutely spectacular Live oaks, possible champion trees for this area. man i hope to have more on them for you all to see.