Barber Chair| barberchair pictures & chat here please

Ekka · 4th January 2008, 09:00 PM

The term barber chair or barber chairing in tree work refers to the slabbing up of timber when doing the back cut (when felling a tree) resulting in a very dangerous out of control situation.

It can also occur on large limbs in trees.

i've attached a tree felling power point file, ppt, which is around 3mb with felling techniques and it shows what goes on although I disagree a little that a "dutchman" is the cause. The predominant cause is forward leaner, species and too narrow a gob on the scarf.

http://www.treeworld.info/manualuplo...arberchair.ppt

The guys down Victoria Australia fell huge eucs called Mountain Ash (eucalyptus regnans) which is prone to barber chairing.

Some methods to overcome barber chairing is strapping the timber above the cut, bore cutting your back cut setting up the hinge then coming out the back of the tree opposite to the normal back cut ... sometime done with a strap release.

Of course there's the "fish cut" which I've never tried which is also supposed to help prevent the barber chair.

bigshea13 · 5th January 2008, 12:20 AM

ash here are the main culprits. their straight grain and sizeare the main reasons. if your saw is dull and you dont bore cut the result is that the tree falls faster than you are able to cut it. you try to stay there and keep cutting when finally the section of hing is too big to snap and too small to hold the weight of the tree in its increasingly horizontal position........it splits up the trunk... when the tree hits the canopy forces the trunk sometimes backwards over the stump. when i first started out we were cuttingon a flat. the trees had no leans. I fell several large ash that consistantly chaired. the reason was.....however you lookat it.....either the fact that i didnt bore cut or my saw was dull{not allowing me to keep up with fall.

Done it · 5th January 2008, 06:29 PM

You're right about those straight grains. A bloke here in Blacktown had his throat cut a few years back doing a Poplar. His son stuck his finger in the vein till the paramedics came.

Sean Freeman · 6th January 2008, 07:02 AM

Hopefully some of you will find this site useful Dutch Push in 1 side of Face
Kenny can be a little hard to understand sometimes with the words he uses but the animation of the baberchair is very good.

Therrin · 6th January 2008, 01:32 PM

That's actually pretty interesting. I like where he says
"This is how people get Killed Dead!"

The frames move too quickly to read the text and keep up with whats happening though, I had to keep refreshing the page and catching up.

TrevMcRev · 9th November 2009, 08:05 PM

Came across this...

YouTube - Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair)

Galbee · 9th November 2009, 08:20 PM

ha ha ha bloody idiot. if he had done the forward leaner procedure that wouldn't have happened or cut it faster.

Ekka · 9th November 2009, 09:14 PM

Here's my comment over there on his video.

Quote:

In consideration of previous comments and acknowledging a slight lean but choosing a traditional felling method.
At 0.31 in when you heard the cracking you stopped, you can clearly see on the video that the tree moved, you should have kept cutting like mad focusing on getting the correct hinge depth. You stalled the tree and something gave ... if ever in this predicament up a tree and you cant just run away you better cut ya little ass off and reduce that hinge thickness fast!

vl2007 · 9th November 2009, 09:15 PM

Good example of one. Sometimes it's hard to put the saw down, then run.

TrevMcRev · 10th November 2009, 05:20 AM

Don't think he likes putting on the chainbrakke either.

windthrown · 10th November 2009, 07:05 AM

Baber chairs are common with falling alder. That stuff is known for splitting vertically. Also with regard to trees tipping and riding back over the stump, that was common in my experience falling fir trees. Once a hinge breaks during the fall, the lower/wider branches compress into the ground, and then they commonly push the tree butt back over the stump.

There is a barber chair falling scene in the movie, Sometimes a Great Notion (also called Never Gine An Inch overseas). Here is a photo of a typical chair that the tree has not broken off of. The question on this photo on the 'other site' was what was worong with this fall. Well, it has got to be cut again, for one thing... and they are unstable as all heck when they fall and split like this one did (and they typically do not stay attached to the chair). I would have to drag it down with a chain or tip it with the tractor bucket. Using a bore and strap cut would typically help prevent this, becasue they could have cut the back cut to a small enough hinge to drop it before cutting the strap. But as I have also experienced, you are falling a group of trees, and they are all going over just fine and dandy, until...

matty f · 11th November 2009, 07:29 PM

Boring in and releasing on leaners is the best way to advoid but some days you can get complacent... can be scarry at the base of a tree expecting the normal noise of a hinge creaking and instead you have that splitting sound and you know you have to move fast before it smacks you!

When they sort of reverse barbers chair and pull up roots and twist of the stump is a fun experience as well !

matty f · 11th November 2009, 07:38 PM

Dont know if this counts but felling a leaning branch that had a lean towards the camera ...wind picked up strongly in the back cut causing it to fracture and go over backwards narrowly missing my ropes and green house below ...had to get a pic for the momment!

Cut4fun · 14th December 2009, 06:21 AM

Have a friend I help with firewood tell me he had one hit him square in the head when falling dead elm and ash once. Found himself laying on the ground knocked out by himself. Saw still on ground idling.

TreeCo · 14th December 2009, 08:34 AM

Here's a good video of a barber chair:

YouTube - Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair)

windthrown · 14th December 2009, 01:53 PM

That's a bad a barber chair. Note where the top half landed. Amazing how these get caught on video.

devo · 16th December 2009, 06:15 AM

this is the first ive seen of '' barber chairs '' , whenever i fell a foward leaner i make the notch , and the enter with the saw behind the notch leaving a nice hinge and work my way with the saw backward out of the trunk , so that when it goes it falls nicely over the hinge .

With this technique you are able to control what happens

keep safe

steve

windthrown · 20th December 2009, 11:27 AM

Well, there are certain species of trees here that barber chair more than others. Alder is one example. Also it is not always possible to control the fall, or know if there is a natural break in a tree that will barber chair. A good hinge is not always possible either, especially if the center is rotted out. Barber chair is an old logging term used around here, and has been an issue here since the days before the one man wonder was invented (the modern chainsaw).

From what you are saying, it sounds like you do a bore cut when falling trees. I have done bore cuts, but they take longer. Typically when logging, you make a face cut (upper and lower), and then a single back cut. Once you are deep enough into the wood with the back cut, you drive in a wedge or two and then cut to leave a good hinge, and then drive the wedges in to drop the tree (or it just falls on its own). If it is leaning one way and you want it to fall another, or there are other issues with the potential to barber chair, the a bore cut is a good idea. Cut the face, then bore in and cut the back cut from the hinge out, but leaving a 'strap' at the back, as it is called. Wedges may or may not be pounded in the sides of the back cut and the starp is cut last which will hopefully release the tree into a good fall. However, I have seen some of these barber chair as well. The hinge wood holds too well, and the tree splits vertically up from the hinge (especially if it too fat). Most all cut trees have some form of small barber chair standing from the hingewood. Typically (and hopefully) its only a few inches tall though.

TGCIII · 20th December 2009, 03:05 PM

knowing the characteristics of the tree, poplar and other soft wooded dedicious trees are prone to split when their leaning ahead. once u look down, the tree ur dealing with, then answer is almost always cut and dried. if i can see it in my minds eye, it will come to pass 99.4% of the time, but if i don't take that little bit of time to see it happen in my mind first, well thats on me.

thats just me

windthrown · 20th December 2009, 04:35 PM

99.4% ????

TGCIII · 20th December 2009, 04:52 PM

ok i'll withdraw the 99.4% and say if i take the time to look it over throughly and can see it happening beforehand it goes pretty much as planned 90% of the time. how's that?

TGCIII · 20th December 2009, 05:35 PM

my pulpwood truck only hauls short wood so my notch is about chin high on me, so i can get a 5' stick off the stump cut. if u need to DRIVE whatever ur falling, a notch at that height puts it in ur face. u can adjust the thickness of the hinge, side to side, as u see it happening, in real time. where timber fallers don't have that luxury. that puts a chair above my head too but again that just in my world

windthrown · 20th December 2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGCIII

ok i'll withdraw the 99.4% and say if i take the time to look it over throughly and can see it happening beforehand it goes pretty much as planned 90% of the time. how's that?

OK, I just thought that you were keeping count or something, or there was something specific about the 0.4%. I have falled a lot of trees, and they do not all go over as planned. Even when they are well planned. 90% sounds about right.

windthrown · 20th December 2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGCIII

my pulpwood truck only hauls short wood so my notch is about chin high on me, so i can get a 5' stick off the stump cut. if u need to DRIVE whatever ur falling, a notch at that height puts it in ur face. u can adjust the thickness of the hinge, side to side, as u see it happening, in real time. where timber fallers don't have that luxury. that puts a chair above my head too but again that just in my world

Pulpwood cutters here cut anything and everything. Funny the way that those loads look, compared to nice neat and straight saw log truckloads.

Cutting for saw logs requires Humbolt face cuts, and as wide a log as possible on the large end of the butt. They measure the small end for scaling, so every inch can mean more or less money. So lower cuts generally mean more money. Use the saw line guides and scrunch down to check for level. A barber chair means a cull log. No money in slash. When I cut firewood and thin, I can cut wherever I want as well. I usually go at about waist high. But I usually re-cut close to the ground, becasue we are clearing and I do not want to trip over stumps, and most people do not want stumps showing. Also if I cut a tree that will be stump ground later I try to leave as little as possible. I use a lot of semi-chisel chains for those reasons; they hold an edge better in crud and dirt.

TGCIII · 22nd December 2009, 12:21 PM

YouTube - Heli Logging

there's a tree falling on its self at about 8:00 in this video, thats ugly!

stirmantrees · 22nd December 2009, 02:01 PM

Galbee · 22nd December 2009, 03:47 PM

jeez thats another chainsaw knackered by the looks of it!!!!!!!!!!!

Ekka · 22nd December 2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGCIII

YouTube - Heli Logging

there's a tree falling on its self at about 8:00 in this video, thats ugly!

Jeez, I wonder WTF happened there.

That saw kept running, it's a Stihl.

TGCIII · 22nd December 2009, 05:49 PM

YouTube - Cypress Wreck.mpg

how about G.F.B.'s latest video? now, that's....ugly!

Ekka · 22nd December 2009, 05:53 PM

It's being discussed here.

When you should really be a spectator

5th January 2008, 12:20 AM	#2
bigshea13 Former Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: super 8 motels Posts: 387	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please ash here are the main culprits. their straight grain and sizeare the main reasons. if your saw is dull and you dont bore cut the result is that the tree falls faster than you are able to cut it. you try to stay there and keep cutting when finally the section of hing is too big to snap and too small to hold the weight of the tree in its increasingly horizontal position........it splits up the trunk... when the tree hits the canopy forces the trunk sometimes backwards over the stump. when i first started out we were cuttingon a flat. the trees had no leans. I fell several large ash that consistantly chaired. the reason was.....however you lookat it.....either the fact that i didnt bore cut or my saw was dull{not allowing me to keep up with fall.

5th January 2008, 06:29 PM	#3
Done it Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Parramatta. nsw. Australia. Posts: 633	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please You're right about those straight grains. A bloke here in Blacktown had his throat cut a few years back doing a Poplar. His son stuck his finger in the vein till the paramedics came.

6th January 2008, 07:02 AM	#4
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,149	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Hopefully some of you will find this site useful Dutch Push in 1 side of Face Kenny can be a little hard to understand sometimes with the words he uses but the animation of the baberchair is very good. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran http://wanderingarborist.blogspot.com/ http://veterantreegroup.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/VeteranTreeGroup

6th January 2008, 01:32 PM	#5
Therrin Tree World Ninja Monkey Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,554	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please That's actually pretty interesting. I like where he says "This is how people get Killed Dead!" The frames move too quickly to read the text and keep up with whats happening though, I had to keep refreshing the page and catching up.

9th November 2009, 08:05 PM	#6
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,433	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Came across this... YouTube - Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair) __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal \| Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

9th November 2009, 08:20 PM	#7
Galbee Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,190	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please ha ha ha bloody idiot. if he had done the forward leaner procedure that wouldn't have happened or cut it faster. __________________ In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king

9th November 2009, 09:15 PM	#9
vl2007 Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 314	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Good example of one. Sometimes it's hard to put the saw down, then run.

10th November 2009, 05:20 AM	#10
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,433	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Don't think he likes putting on the chainbrakke either. __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal \| Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

14th December 2009, 06:21 AM	#14
Cut4fun Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 145	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Have a friend I help with firewood tell me he had one hit him square in the head when falling dead elm and ash once. Found himself laying on the ground knocked out by himself. Saw still on ground idling.

14th December 2009, 08:34 AM	#15
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 295	Barber chair video: Here's a good video of a barber chair: YouTube - Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair) __________________ Grow more vegetables!

14th December 2009, 01:53 PM	#16
windthrown Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On the slopes of Mt Hood Posts: 755	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please That's a bad a barber chair. Note where the top half landed. Amazing how these get caught on video. __________________ Stay thirsty my friends... Work saws, all modified Stihls: 310, 4 x 026 / 3 x 361 / 1 x 044 / 066 I ship saws down under... PM me if interested.

16th December 2009, 06:15 AM	#17
devo Sappling Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: germany Posts: 39	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please this is the first ive seen of '' barber chairs '' , whenever i fell a foward leaner i make the notch , and the enter with the saw behind the notch leaving a nice hinge and work my way with the saw backward out of the trunk , so that when it goes it falls nicely over the hinge . With this technique you are able to control what happens keep safe steve

20th December 2009, 11:27 AM	#18
windthrown Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On the slopes of Mt Hood Posts: 755	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please Well, there are certain species of trees here that barber chair more than others. Alder is one example. Also it is not always possible to control the fall, or know if there is a natural break in a tree that will barber chair. A good hinge is not always possible either, especially if the center is rotted out. Barber chair is an old logging term used around here, and has been an issue here since the days before the one man wonder was invented (the modern chainsaw). From what you are saying, it sounds like you do a bore cut when falling trees. I have done bore cuts, but they take longer. Typically when logging, you make a face cut (upper and lower), and then a single back cut. Once you are deep enough into the wood with the back cut, you drive in a wedge or two and then cut to leave a good hinge, and then drive the wedges in to drop the tree (or it just falls on its own). If it is leaning one way and you want it to fall another, or there are other issues with the potential to barber chair, the a bore cut is a good idea. Cut the face, then bore in and cut the back cut from the hinge out, but leaving a 'strap' at the back, as it is called. Wedges may or may not be pounded in the sides of the back cut and the starp is cut last which will hopefully release the tree into a good fall. However, I have seen some of these barber chair as well. The hinge wood holds too well, and the tree splits vertically up from the hinge (especially if it too fat). Most all cut trees have some form of small barber chair standing from the hingewood. Typically (and hopefully) its only a few inches tall though. __________________ Stay thirsty my friends... Work saws, all modified Stihls: 310, 4 x 026 / 3 x 361 / 1 x 044 / 066 I ship saws down under... PM me if interested.

20th December 2009, 03:05 PM	#19
TGCIII Sappling Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ATL GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please knowing the characteristics of the tree, poplar and other soft wooded dedicious trees are prone to split when their leaning ahead. once u look down, the tree ur dealing with, then answer is almost always cut and dried. if i can see it in my minds eye, it will come to pass 99.4% of the time, but if i don't take that little bit of time to see it happen in my mind first, well thats on me. thats just me

20th December 2009, 04:35 PM	#20
windthrown Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: On the slopes of Mt Hood Posts: 755	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please 99.4% ???? __________________ Stay thirsty my friends... Work saws, all modified Stihls: 310, 4 x 026 / 3 x 361 / 1 x 044 / 066 I ship saws down under... PM me if interested.

20th December 2009, 04:52 PM	#21
TGCIII Sappling Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ATL GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please ok i'll withdraw the 99.4% and say if i take the time to look it over throughly and can see it happening beforehand it goes pretty much as planned 90% of the time. how's that? __________________ the only thing better than a strong mind is 2

20th December 2009, 05:35 PM	#22
TGCIII Sappling Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ATL GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please my pulpwood truck only hauls short wood so my notch is about chin high on me, so i can get a 5' stick off the stump cut. if u need to DRIVE whatever ur falling, a notch at that height puts it in ur face. u can adjust the thickness of the hinge, side to side, as u see it happening, in real time. where timber fallers don't have that luxury. that puts a chair above my head too but again that just in my world __________________ the only thing better than a strong mind is 2

22nd December 2009, 12:21 PM	#25
TGCIII Sappling Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ATL GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please YouTube - Heli Logging there's a tree falling on its self at about 8:00 in this video, thats ugly! __________________ the only thing better than a strong mind is 2

22nd December 2009, 02:01 PM	#26
stirmantrees Mature tree Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: oviedo, fl Posts: 476	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please

22nd December 2009, 03:47 PM	#27
Galbee Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,190	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please jeez thats another chainsaw knackered by the looks of it!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king

22nd December 2009, 05:49 PM	#29
TGCIII Sappling Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: ATL GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please YouTube - Cypress Wreck.mpg how about G.F.B.'s latest video? now, that's....ugly! __________________ the only thing better than a strong mind is 2

22nd December 2009, 05:53 PM	#30
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,792	Re: Barber Chair\| barberchair pictures & chat here please It's being discussed here. When you should really be a spectator __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

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