Training style vid - felling a side leaner, most viewed video in my collection

Ekka · 28th January 2007, 12:12 AM

Using side rope and adjusted gun technique.

Witches hats (cones) are set up to show the angles. This is the most heavily viewed video in my collection.

23.4mb wmv

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/sidelean.wmv

Post 11 below has some demonstrations of piecuts which shows leaving wedge or pie shaped hinges has little influence on felling direction.
Training style vid - felling a side leaner, most viewed video in my collection

Brother Colin · 1st February 2007, 11:29 PM

Now that was why I liked working for you ekka.

I was always learning something every day.

Ekka · 1st February 2007, 11:46 PM

Lifes like that, it's good when you get to fell trees, man I love it.

Sean Freeman · 2nd February 2007, 02:13 PM

Super vid,

you can really see how much force was working in that stem despite the side rope wood fibres still pulled out in the hingewood on the left looking from the back cut. (In trees with less lean and with good sound timber you can use differences in hinge thickness to pull the tree around slightly in the fell, takes quite a lot of practice and experience to be confident that you have enough control, and you'd always back it up with a static control line)

Falling trees with leans really takes careful planning and working through the variables, having a simple check list or felling plan to go through each time helps to make sure we don't neglect anything in the rush to get the job done.

There's a great flash animation showing the use of side rope control but no where near as instructive as your vid. (I will track it down though cause they use an friction hitch to keep tension in the side rope throughout the fall)

SF

Sean Freeman · 2nd February 2007, 03:06 PM

Here's that animation not a leaning tree in this eg but at least gives an idea of backing up control for directional felling esp in really tight spots
fellsafety.jpg

SF

kauriman · 4th February 2007, 07:55 PM

Hi Ekka

Excellent vid once again. Great techniques. Just wondering if you in Aus need traffic management when working close to roads?

Here in NZ any tree felling within two tree lengths of the road requires traffic management i.e. signs etc and trafffic stopped when the felling is taking place. Thats whether the tree is leaning towards, away or sideways to the road.

Any comments.

a_lopa · 4th February 2007, 08:22 PM

In my state(vic)you can have a tempory roadside worksite less than 5 minutes just need workman signs otherwise its full traffic managment/plans etc.

Ekka · 4th February 2007, 10:28 PM

Frankly, dont know the rules, lot of buck passing here.

All I've heard is common sense prevails ... back roads etc that aren't busy no worries and busy roads look out.

I asked once what is busy ... some dude said 100+ cars in the time it takes to do you job?

2 lengths on any tree felling operation is standard OHS, try that in many back yards. Just don't make the back cut when a cars coming

That area was semi rural.

Sean Freeman · 5th February 2007, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kauriman

Hi Ekka

Excellent vid once again. Great techniques. Just wondering if you in Aus need traffic management when working close to roads?

Here in NZ any tree felling within two tree lengths of the road requires traffic management i.e. signs etc and trafffic stopped when the felling is taking place. Thats whether the tree is leaning towards, away or sideways to the road.

Any comments.

The problem for anyone in Queensland is that outside of the general obligations for WH&S in the Act relating to ensuring a safe workplace there are no regulations and no code of conduct....Yep unlike the other states and territories we have no code of practice to follow at all.

The best we've got is this recommendation from QAA

WORKING SAFELY WITH TREES

We believe that all workers in the amenity tree industry should work to legal and most importantly a safe working standard to protect not only the public and property, but also to reduce the risk of work related death and injury in our highly dangerous industry.

As we are yet to publish the Queensland Arboricultural Association Code of practice, we would like all our members to follow and adopt the Victorian Work Cover code of practice ?Working safely with trees? recommended practices for the amenity tree industry, until such time that the QAA Code of practice has been indorsed.

It is in everyone?s best interest to work to a standard that is recognized, as you, your business and your employee?s will benefit out of working in a safe environment.

We ask all members to familiarize themselves with the booklet and to get back to us with any feedback regarding this matter.
Thats how its been for a fair while now, and frankly it ain't good enough.

If you are members of QAA you should give them feedback

On a practical level if you're working for Roadtek or Main Roads clearing in the road reserve they will require a Traffic Management plan if the work can potentially impact upon road users - and that requires the use of acredited traffic control personnel. But if its only one small job for a private client then from what I've seen trees get dropped processed and the crew move on, and yep that can get pretty damn scary with some of the blokes knocking around

My advice is in Qld err on the side of caution, bigger felling jobs may need temp road closure contact the police in advance arrange traffic controllers written work method so on, and so on.

SF

chris girard · 19th February 2007, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Using side rope and adjusted gun technique.

Witches hats (cones) are set up to show the angles. This is the most heavily viewed video in my collection.

23.4mb wmv

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/sidelean.wmv

This is my favorite video in your collection too.

Like you and I have have discussed before, when felling a side leaner the Adjusted Gun Technique is really the way to go instead of using just the Tapered Hinge Tech. alone.

Though I do still like to sometimes use a combination of both along with a side tensioning line.

Ekka · 19th February 2007, 12:05 PM

Yeah, the tapered hinge wouldn't really move a tree much ... we've been down that track but leaving more wood on the side opposite the lean (tapered hinge) helps hold that tree up.

I dont get enough leaners to fell, did we ever figure out if that forestry calculator was accurate ... where's the link for that thing?

see what the effect of leaving a tapered hinge was (pie cut) and adjusted gun etc.

Conclusion is that leaving a taper doesn't turn the tree but it does help combat the lean.

9.03mins and 42.7mb wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts.wmv

In this next video I use 2 alex palms to demonstrate that pie cuts have little influence on fall direction. In one I "chase the tree down" to try to get some turn, but get very little.

4.51min 23.6mb
www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts2.wmv

In this close up video we watch the pie shaped hinge break the fibres on the LH side first then the lot. The tree only turned as branches struck the ground and then it settled. Close to the end of the video where you have a view of the butt end of the log you can see how radical the pie shaped hinge was.

0.55min and 4.26mb WMV
http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/v...peredhinge.wmv

Ekka · 4th July 2007, 12:05 AM

Some diagrams so the science is understood.

newguy18 · 16th July 2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Using side rope and adjusted gun technique.

Witches hats (cones) are set up to show the angles. This is the most heavily viewed video in my collection.

23.4mb wmv

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/sidelean.wmv

Nice video Ekka,I just have one question not that I am questioning your techniques but would it have been safer to undermine the trees center of gravity?I think thats how I would have done it but I am asking because I am unsure.

Ekka · 19th April 2008, 09:09 PM

Posts 14,15,16 and 17 copied from this thread.
Box or Square Scarf - Notch

First came the paragraph as seen here. It says

Quote:

"Hinge modification consisting of a hinge that is thin on one end and thicker on the other has no bearing on the direction of a falling tree and recommendations that suggest so should be disregarded."

To which you said this:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treelore

I have to say that the last statement of page four is false. I have witnessed on thousands of occasions how by triangulating my hinge wood I was able to succesfully keep a tree tracking straight wheras if I had cut uniformly from the back I would have hinge breakout and loss of direction.

You said it was a false statement. Hence the confusion. Below you state .... I bolded the area of vital importance here, that the scarf determines the felling direction not the hinge. That is the key issue here and that means the statement in H4 is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treelore

I am saying that if you scarf your tree in the direction you wish it to fall then a correct backcut will allow it to fall in this direction if this means having a slightly thicker hinge on one side to prevent breaking of hinge and tree not falling in correct direction then that is how it will eventuate. the amount of supporting hinge is crucial to fall direction. But that direction is predetermined by scarf orientation.

28th January 2007, 12:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Training style vid - felling a side leaner, most viewed video in my collection Using side rope and adjusted gun technique. Witches hats (cones) are set up to show the angles. This is the most heavily viewed video in my collection. 23.4mb wmv http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/sidelean.wmv Post 11 below has some demonstrations of piecuts which shows leaving wedge or pie shaped hinges has little influence on felling direction. Training style vid - felling a side leaner, most viewed video in my collection __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st February 2007, 11:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Lifes like that, it's good when you get to fell trees, man I love it. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

4th February 2007, 07:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
kauriman Gettin' motoring Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NZ Posts: 22	Nice fell. Any traffic management? Hi Ekka Excellent vid once again. Great techniques. Just wondering if you in Aus need traffic management when working close to roads? Here in NZ any tree felling within two tree lengths of the road requires traffic management i.e. signs etc and trafffic stopped when the felling is taking place. Thats whether the tree is leaning towards, away or sideways to the road. Any comments.

4th February 2007, 08:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
a_lopa Astronaut Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 837	In my state(vic)you can have a tempory roadside worksite less than 5 minutes just need workman signs otherwise its full traffic managment/plans etc. __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

4th February 2007, 10:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Frankly, dont know the rules, lot of buck passing here. All I've heard is common sense prevails ... back roads etc that aren't busy no worries and busy roads look out. I asked once what is busy ... some dude said 100+ cars in the time it takes to do you job? 2 lengths on any tree felling operation is standard OHS, try that in many back yards. Just don't make the back cut when a cars coming That area was semi rural. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st February 2007, 11:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Brother Colin Gettin' motoring Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 48	Now that was why I liked working for you ekka. I was always learning something every day.

2nd February 2007, 02:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Super vid, you can really see how much force was working in that stem despite the side rope wood fibres still pulled out in the hingewood on the left looking from the back cut. (In trees with less lean and with good sound timber you can use differences in hinge thickness to pull the tree around slightly in the fell, takes quite a lot of practice and experience to be confident that you have enough control, and you'd always back it up with a static control line) Falling trees with leans really takes careful planning and working through the variables, having a simple check list or felling plan to go through each time helps to make sure we don't neglect anything in the rush to get the job done. There's a great flash animation showing the use of side rope control but no where near as instructive as your vid. (I will track it down though cause they use an friction hitch to keep tension in the side rope throughout the fall) SF

2nd February 2007, 03:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Here's that animation not a leaning tree in this eg but at least gives an idea of backing up control for directional felling esp in really tight spots fellsafety.jpg SF

19th February 2007, 12:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Yeah, the tapered hinge wouldn't really move a tree much ... we've been down that track but leaving more wood on the side opposite the lean (tapered hinge) helps hold that tree up. I dont get enough leaners to fell, did we ever figure out if that forestry calculator was accurate ... where's the link for that thing? see what the effect of leaving a tapered hinge was (pie cut) and adjusted gun etc. Conclusion is that leaving a taper doesn't turn the tree but it does help combat the lean. 9.03mins and 42.7mb wmv www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts.wmv In this next video I use 2 alex palms to demonstrate that pie cuts have little influence on fall direction. In one I "chase the tree down" to try to get some turn, but get very little. 4.51min 23.6mb www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts2.wmv In this close up video we watch the pie shaped hinge break the fibres on the LH side first then the lot. The tree only turned as branches struck the ground and then it settled. Close to the end of the video where you have a view of the butt end of the log you can see how radical the pie shaped hinge was. 0.55min and 4.26mb WMV http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/v...peredhinge.wmv __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors