HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition

playfordtree · 12th April 2008, 06:58 PM

Knocked this one over on Thursday.
Did a bit of DAMAGE

Not too bad though.

Enjoy.

Video is 10min & 35Mb

http://www.weareallabouttrees.com.au...demolition.wmv

newguy18 · 12th April 2008, 07:35 PM

I'm gonna give you some constructive criticism,Your line should have been set higher and you should have used a face cut,it would have saved the fence.Other than that good video,I won't say anything about one handing since i do the same thing only with a 51 husky.

playfordtree · 12th April 2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Your line should have been set higher and you should have used a face cut,it would have saved the fence.......

Correct

newguy18 · 12th April 2008, 08:36 PM

A good face cut is the wide face cut with a gap.Make 2 oppsing angle cuts to the undercut but make them to where the notch doesn't fall out.Take a wedge and bust it out.There should be a noticeable gap,it helps guide the piece over further so you will have more control but if your fairly new to climbing it does make the tree shake alot more.

JohN Dee · 12th April 2008, 09:32 PM

newguy18 · 12th April 2008, 09:59 PM

Are you refering to the video or my advice?

JohN Dee · 12th April 2008, 10:20 PM

Bill, the video. But also, I can't seem to picture in my head what your talking about mate, could you put up some diagrams (just use paint) to educate us?

First of all, let me thank you for taking the time to put up an entertaining video, Simon.

Now here comes the "nagging and nitpicking".

Points that need pointing out:

That Sling you use for knotless rigging
Your Saw Chain
Your tear cuts
That freakin' Barberchair of a topping

Alrighty, we'll go in order of the list.

That Sling, what size is it? It looked to me either 8 or 10mm Prussic line. The 10mm prussic line (based on the various ones I've bought) usually comes in at 1350KGS breaking strain. Not sufficient at all. Get some double braid, or even the same stuff as your lowering line (You could even use any left over part of old climbing lines as a temp fix) for your slings, try to get their rating to be atleast 4,000kgs.

Your Saw Chain. Wtf, why you using it blunt?

16 inch bar, picco chain about 3-9 mins to sharpen and do the rakers. Somebody said it in one of the chain sharpening posts, it's better to hone it up a few times throughout the day then wait til the end of the day or week for that matter to sharpen it. Even if it doesn't need it.

I like to live by this and get the absolute most out of our chainsaws and their components.

Tear cuts. Just gotta say this first before I get into it, the proper name for it is a tear cut not a hinge cut as the wood isn't hinging in anyway, it's tearing. I saw that you were doing quite a few tear cuts where your lanyard was just below... I noticed that the tree was pretty snappy, but come a tree that isn't snappy, if that tears down to and past your lanyard you're going to get crushed, pinned, busted nose ribs and other bones, or get killed.

I know from experience in the early days of my climbing, cutting a 400mm branch of a lemon scent gum with a straight through cut (tear cut). The branch started falling before I could finish my cut, it tore down towards my wirecore lanyard (absolutely no way to disconnect it from my harness at the time if there had of been a load on it) then for about 2 seconds I got crushed against the branch until the strip toar off and slipped out of my lanyard. I was fine, it hurt alot during it but after that everything was fine.

If you wanna keep on using the tear cuts as you do I suggest that you put a nick of about 3-5cm deep on the other side of the branch or trunk just above your lanyard, that way, if it does wanna tear all the way down it's not gunna tear past that point, putting a safe buffer between your lanyard (you) and the wood tearing.

Tear cuts do have their place, but in your video they are used in the wrong place as there are better and more efficient cuts you could have used.

The Barberchair of that top. DUDE, WTF were you thinking?! You almost KILLED yourself. It didn't even tear, that was just down right barber chairing (slabbing). The top of the tree is probably one of the most dangerous parts if not THE most dangerous part of a tree dismantle. If that had of slipped down your side of the trunk - GONER.

The topping of the head of a tree should not be taken lightly and appropriate cuts be used. The head of the tree is just like a smaller version of the tree your climbing, and you felling it. So what cut do we use when we fell it? We use the scarf (notch for you yanks). A correct scarf and back cut, usually with a pull line and we can make the top or tree our bitch and tell it what to do and where to go. 99% control is taken when we use and cut a correct scarf. Using tear cuts ESPECIALLY on vertical limbs, we have about 1% control.

Oh one more thing I thought of. Your step cut... Nothing wrong with using a step cut in the right place just as long as you know of the risks. The tendency for the branch to jam and drag your saw out of the tree is very high with a step cut, to minimise this to the best we can, we put our top cut right next to the bottom cut (around about 1mm apart). Oh and also makesure you keep your cuts parallel, if you don't you're actually creating a pocket for your saw to sit in and be grabbed.

And this post of mine just took like 20 mins of my life, but that's better then a tree taking your life from you for using inferior methods and technique.

JohN Dee

JohN Dee · 12th April 2008, 10:21 PM

Lol, you know Simon, out of all the threads on here, yours seem to get me to write out my longest replies.

Ekka · 12th April 2008, 10:25 PM

Simon

And others.

Since I helped Simon load this video up I got to view it a fair bit.

Hats off to the guy showing what happened, many wouldn't have.

Hats off for making it in the first place too, like many others he's got himself helcammed, means he's serious about his job and got a thick hide. A thick hide is required as you will get some-one kicking it every now and then, depending where you host it (rabid forums) you can get ganged with thugs for just being there.

Now, in the true Aussie spirit of Hey Hey it's Saturday Tree World's Red will say....

Showing how long that tree took means you need to up your skills. Guys skidding around on lowering ropes is just nuts, at 2.52min the guys skidded directly beneath the load and the first guy appeared to not have a helmet.

The final head coming off barber chairing ... you were lucky to have not been hurt.

You were trying to fell the head at a different angle to the lean of it, extremely ambitious without a scarf, however you were lazy often not scarfing or snap cutting and experiencing tearing.

I wouldn't have bothered big shotting it and just gone up it perhaps removing some along the way.

At around 1min in where you snap cut off the first limb, make the top cut directly above or slightly closer to the trunk to ensure your saw doesnt get caught in the falling section.

The next cut at around 1.30min you should have scarfed too ... narrow scarfs can give direction and turn but break off rather than hold the butt up. Have you had any where they land on their head and the butt spears through something?

At 5.38min you block out trunk without a back snap cut, again bark tear down to lanyard not good, cut the back first. This continued right through to the 7min mark and once you had a "bar walker" piece. SNAP CUTS MATE!

Sorry for the heavy critique, but I see accidents coming unless you change your ways.

JohN Dee · 12th April 2008, 10:34 PM

Yes, I also give a hats off to you Simon for showing the damage, again, not many would have. But you need training man. Do a short course, apply at your tafe, hire a bloody good contractor climber for the day and just get him to TEACH you. Otherwise at this rate, you're not gunna be in our industy for long and yet another statistic and then we'd never get that 020 stip and rebuild video.

newguy18 · 12th April 2008, 10:48 PM

Okay John heres a diagram hopefully explaining what i was saying.After yuo make the facecut you can either keep the backcut even with the plane of the undercut or make it in the traditional fashion,just depends on what you prefer.Don't leave too much hinge wood since where you bust the face cut out it will be gapped and it will help guide the piece over further giving you more control with the pull rope.It works great,espically on stuff that leans backwards of where you want it to land.

Ekka · 12th April 2008, 11:05 PM

Bill, it's just an open face notch, that's what I call it.

newguy18 · 12th April 2008, 11:14 PM

You didn't understand,you purposly make your cuts to were they are inline but they don't cross.You have to bust the cut out.After cleaning the hinge you should notice a gap.its a nice trick to know foe getting a little more control out of trees or tops that lean back or of to one side.

Ekka · 12th April 2008, 11:29 PM

You mean like this?

JohN Dee · 13th April 2008, 02:43 AM

One thing about the open face notch, Bill, if you use it within the tree on vertical logs, your going to send the piece into a real big tumble and spin and possibly plant it into the ground or when it hits the deck it's gunna jump around like a bloody lizards dropped tail.

I like using it when you've got a scaffold limb hanging just out over the fence and you don't want to rig it, that way it swings and then folds all the way back into the yard and sits down nice and horizontaly.

12th April 2008, 06:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
playfordtree Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Knocked this one over on Thursday. Did a bit of DAMAGE Not too bad though. Enjoy. Video is 10min & 35Mb http://www.weareallabouttrees.com.au...demolition.wmv __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

12th April 2008, 07:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition I'm gonna give you some constructive criticism,Your line should have been set higher and you should have used a face cut,it would have saved the fence.Other than that good video,I won't say anything about one handing since i do the same thing only with a 51 husky. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th April 2008, 08:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition A good face cut is the wide face cut with a gap.Make 2 oppsing angle cuts to the undercut but make them to where the notch doesn't fall out.Take a wedge and bust it out.There should be a noticeable gap,it helps guide the piece over further so you will have more control but if your fairly new to climbing it does make the tree shake alot more. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th April 2008, 09:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
JohN Dee Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 679	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Wtf! __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

12th April 2008, 09:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Are you refering to the video or my advice? __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th April 2008, 10:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
JohN Dee Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 679	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Bill, the video. But also, I can't seem to picture in my head what your talking about mate, could you put up some diagrams (just use paint) to educate us? First of all, let me thank you for taking the time to put up an entertaining video, Simon. Now here comes the "nagging and nitpicking". Points that need pointing out: That Sling you use for knotless rigging Your Saw Chain Your tear cuts That freakin' Barberchair of a topping Alrighty, we'll go in order of the list. That Sling, what size is it? It looked to me either 8 or 10mm Prussic line. The 10mm prussic line (based on the various ones I've bought) usually comes in at 1350KGS breaking strain. Not sufficient at all. Get some double braid, or even the same stuff as your lowering line (You could even use any left over part of old climbing lines as a temp fix) for your slings, try to get their rating to be atleast 4,000kgs. Your Saw Chain. Wtf, why you using it blunt? 16 inch bar, picco chain about 3-9 mins to sharpen and do the rakers. Somebody said it in one of the chain sharpening posts, it's better to hone it up a few times throughout the day then wait til the end of the day or week for that matter to sharpen it. Even if it doesn't need it. I like to live by this and get the absolute most out of our chainsaws and their components. Tear cuts. Just gotta say this first before I get into it, the proper name for it is a tear cut not a hinge cut as the wood isn't hinging in anyway, it's tearing. I saw that you were doing quite a few tear cuts where your lanyard was just below... I noticed that the tree was pretty snappy, but come a tree that isn't snappy, if that tears down to and past your lanyard you're going to get crushed, pinned, busted nose ribs and other bones, or get killed. I know from experience in the early days of my climbing, cutting a 400mm branch of a lemon scent gum with a straight through cut (tear cut). The branch started falling before I could finish my cut, it tore down towards my wirecore lanyard (absolutely no way to disconnect it from my harness at the time if there had of been a load on it) then for about 2 seconds I got crushed against the branch until the strip toar off and slipped out of my lanyard. I was fine, it hurt alot during it but after that everything was fine. If you wanna keep on using the tear cuts as you do I suggest that you put a nick of about 3-5cm deep on the other side of the branch or trunk just above your lanyard, that way, if it does wanna tear all the way down it's not gunna tear past that point, putting a safe buffer between your lanyard (you) and the wood tearing. Tear cuts do have their place, but in your video they are used in the wrong place as there are better and more efficient cuts you could have used. The Barberchair of that top. DUDE, WTF were you thinking?! You almost KILLED yourself. It didn't even tear, that was just down right barber chairing (slabbing). The top of the tree is probably one of the most dangerous parts if not THE most dangerous part of a tree dismantle. If that had of slipped down your side of the trunk - GONER. The topping of the head of a tree should not be taken lightly and appropriate cuts be used. The head of the tree is just like a smaller version of the tree your climbing, and you felling it. So what cut do we use when we fell it? We use the scarf (notch for you yanks). A correct scarf and back cut, usually with a pull line and we can make the top or tree our bitch and tell it what to do and where to go. 99% control is taken when we use and cut a correct scarf. Using tear cuts ESPECIALLY on vertical limbs, we have about 1% control. Oh one more thing I thought of. Your step cut... Nothing wrong with using a step cut in the right place just as long as you know of the risks. The tendency for the branch to jam and drag your saw out of the tree is very high with a step cut, to minimise this to the best we can, we put our top cut right next to the bottom cut (around about 1mm apart). Oh and also makesure you keep your cuts parallel, if you don't you're actually creating a pocket for your saw to sit in and be grabbed. And this post of mine just took like 20 mins of my life, but that's better then a tree taking your life from you for using inferior methods and technique. JohN Dee __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

12th April 2008, 10:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
JohN Dee Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 679	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Lol, you know Simon, out of all the threads on here, yours seem to get me to write out my longest replies. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

12th April 2008, 10:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
JohN Dee Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 679	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Yes, I also give a hats off to you Simon for showing the damage, again, not many would have. But you need training man. Do a short course, apply at your tafe, hire a bloody good contractor climber for the day and just get him to TEACH you. Otherwise at this rate, you're not gunna be in our industy for long and yet another statistic and then we'd never get that 020 stip and rebuild video. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

12th April 2008, 11:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition Bill, it's just an open face notch, that's what I call it. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th April 2008, 11:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,198	Re: HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition You didn't understand,you purposly make your cuts to were they are inline but they don't cross.You have to bust the cut out.After cleaning the hinge you should notice a gap.its a nice trick to know foe getting a little more control out of trees or tops that lean back or of to one side. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related