HELMETCAM:- Gum Tree Demolition

playfordtree

Knocked this one over on Thursday.
Did a bit of DAMAGE

Not too bad though.

Enjoy.

Video is 10min & 35Mb

http://www.weareallabouttrees.com.au...demolition.wmv

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newguy18

I'm gonna give you some constructive criticism,Your line should have been set higher and you should have used a face cut,it would have saved the fence.Other than that good video,I won't say anything about one handing since i do the same thing only with a 51 husky.

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old schooler

playfordtree

Correct

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newguy18

A good face cut is the wide face cut with a gap.Make 2 oppsing angle cuts to the undercut but make them to where the notch doesn't fall out.Take a wedge and bust it out.There should be a noticeable gap,it helps guide the piece over further so you will have more control but if your fairly new to climbing it does make the tree shake alot more.

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old schooler

JohN Dee

Wtf!

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newguy18

Are you refering to the video or my advice?

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old schooler

JohN Dee

Bill, the video. But also, I can't seem to picture in my head what your talking about mate, could you put up some diagrams (just use paint) to educate us?

First of all, let me thank you for taking the time to put up an entertaining video, Simon.

Now here comes the "nagging and nitpicking".

Points that need pointing out:

• That Sling you use for knotless rigging
• Your Saw Chain
• Your tear cuts
• That freakin' Barberchair of a topping

Alrighty, we'll go in order of the list.

That Sling, what size is it? It looked to me either 8 or 10mm Prussic line. The 10mm prussic line (based on the various ones I've bought) usually comes in at 1350KGS breaking strain. Not sufficient at all. Get some double braid, or even the same stuff as your lowering line (You could even use any left over part of old climbing lines as a temp fix) for your slings, try to get their rating to be atleast 4,000kgs.

Your Saw Chain. Wtf, why you using it blunt? 16 inch bar, picco chain about 3-9 mins to sharpen and do the rakers. Somebody said it in one of the chain sharpening posts, it's better to hone it up a few times throughout the day then wait til the end of the day or week for that matter to sharpen it. Even if it doesn't need it. I like to live by this and get the absolute most out of our chainsaws and their components.

Tear cuts. Just gotta say this first before I get into it, the proper name for it is a tear cut not a hinge cut as the wood isn't hinging in anyway, it's tearing. I saw that you were doing quite a few tear cuts where your lanyard was just below... I noticed that the tree was pretty snappy, but come a tree that isn't snappy, if that tears down to and past your lanyard you're going to get crushed, pinned, busted nose ribs and other bones, or get killed.

I know from experience in the early days of my climbing, cutting a 400mm branch of a lemon scent gum with a straight through cut (tear cut). The branch started falling before I could finish my cut, it tore down towards my wirecore lanyard (absolutely no way to disconnect it from my harness at the time if there had of been a load on it) then for about 2 seconds I got crushed against the branch until the strip toar off and slipped out of my lanyard. I was fine, it hurt alot during it but after that everything was fine.

If you wanna keep on using the tear cuts as you do I suggest that you put a nick of about 3-5cm deep on the other side of the branch or trunk just above your lanyard, that way, if it does wanna tear all the way down it's not gunna tear past that point, putting a safe buffer between your lanyard (you) and the wood tearing.

Tear cuts do have their place, but in your video they are used in the wrong place as there are better and more efficient cuts you could have used.

The Barberchair of that top. DUDE, WTF were you thinking?! You almost KILLED yourself. It didn't even tear, that was just down right barber chairing (slabbing). The top of the tree is probably one of the most dangerous parts if not THE most dangerous part of a tree dismantle. If that had of slipped down your side of the trunk - GONER.

The topping of the head of a tree should not be taken lightly and appropriate cuts be used. The head of the tree is just like a smaller version of the tree your climbing, and you felling it. So what cut do we use when we fell it? We use the scarf (notch for you yanks). A correct scarf and back cut, usually with a pull line and we can make the top or tree our bitch and tell it what to do and where to go. 99% control is taken when we use and cut a correct scarf. Using tear cuts ESPECIALLY on vertical limbs, we have about 1% control.

Oh one more thing I thought of. Your step cut... Nothing wrong with using a step cut in the right place just as long as you know of the risks. The tendency for the branch to jam and drag your saw out of the tree is very high with a step cut, to minimise this to the best we can, we put our top cut right next to the bottom cut (around about 1mm apart). Oh and also makesure you keep your cuts parallel, if you don't you're actually creating a pocket for your saw to sit in and be grabbed.

And this post of mine just took like 20 mins of my life, but that's better then a tree taking your life from you for using inferior methods and technique.

JohN Dee

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JohN Dee

Lol, you know Simon, out of all the threads on here, yours seem to get me to write out my longest replies.

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Eric Frei

Simon

And others.

Since I helped Simon load this video up I got to view it a fair bit.

Hats off to the guy showing what happened, many wouldn't have.

Hats off for making it in the first place too, like many others he's got himself helcammed, means he's serious about his job and got a thick hide. A thick hide is required as you will get some-one kicking it every now and then, depending where you host it (rabid forums) you can get ganged with thugs for just being there.

Now, in the true Aussie spirit of Hey Hey it's Saturday Tree World's Red will say....

Showing how long that tree took means you need to up your skills. Guys skidding around on lowering ropes is just nuts, at 2.52min the guys skidded directly beneath the load and the first guy appeared to not have a helmet.

The final head coming off barber chairing ... you were lucky to have not been hurt.

You were trying to fell the head at a different angle to the lean of it, extremely ambitious without a scarf, however you were lazy often not scarfing or snap cutting and experiencing tearing.

I wouldn't have bothered big shotting it and just gone up it perhaps removing some along the way.

At around 1min in where you snap cut off the first limb, make the top cut directly above or slightly closer to the trunk to ensure your saw doesnt get caught in the falling section.



The next cut at around 1.30min you should have scarfed too ... narrow scarfs can give direction and turn but break off rather than hold the butt up. Have you had any where they land on their head and the butt spears through something?

At 5.38min you block out trunk without a back snap cut, again bark tear down to lanyard not good, cut the back first. This continued right through to the 7min mark and once you had a "bar walker" piece. SNAP CUTS MATE!

Sorry for the heavy critique, but I see accidents coming unless you change your ways.

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JohN Dee

Yes, I also give a hats off to you Simon for showing the damage, again, not many would have. But you need training man. Do a short course, apply at your tafe, hire a bloody good contractor climber for the day and just get him to TEACH you. Otherwise at this rate, you're not gunna be in our industy for long and yet another statistic and then we'd never get that 020 stip and rebuild video.

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newguy18

Okay John heres a diagram hopefully explaining what i was saying.After yuo make the facecut you can either keep the backcut even with the plane of the undercut or make it in the traditional fashion,just depends on what you prefer.Don't leave too much hinge wood since where you bust the face cut out it will be gapped and it will help guide the piece over further giving you more control with the pull rope.It works great,espically on stuff that leans backwards of where you want it to land.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Bill, it's just an open face notch, that's what I call it.

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newguy18

You didn't understand,you purposly make your cuts to were they are inline but they don't cross.You have to bust the cut out.After cleaning the hinge you should notice a gap.its a nice trick to know foe getting a little more control out of trees or tops that lean back or of to one side.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

You mean like this?

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JohN Dee

One thing about the open face notch, Bill, if you use it within the tree on vertical logs, your going to send the piece into a real big tumble and spin and possibly plant it into the ground or when it hits the deck it's gunna jump around like a bloody lizards dropped tail.

I like using it when you've got a scaffold limb hanging just out over the fence and you don't want to rig it, that way it swings and then folds all the way back into the yard and sits down nice and horizontaly.

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newguy18

Exactly,where the hinge is wider it will follow the face further and help guide it longer.

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old schooler

newguy18

Its good for that too,i mainly use it on trees that lean backwards that i'm pulling where i want them just to get more control on the tree but sometimes i use them on tops.It works great but you have to know where and how to use it.Like john said it doesn't work so well on blocks of wood,for those i just make a regular scarf and keep the backcut level with the plane of the undercut and cut the hinge up fine.I always have a pull rope when blocking down that way.

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old schooler

playfordtree

That's all good advice gents.
I'm sure to take some of it on board.

I recommend that everyone who climbs should get themselves a cheap helmetcam.
It's a very educational tool for seeing where you've gone wrong & what you could have done different.

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Eric Frei

You have broad shoulders mate, good on you.

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treevet

Great comments and especially impressed with the knowledge in posts by young arborists. Simon, after all that was said my only advice would be to get an experienced arborist to assist you from the ground or in tree on your next takedown. It will be invaluable and last a lifetime, you certainly have got the balls to do the work. Many just aren t made for this stuff.

newguy18

I gotta get a certain something to mount it to.I got a feeling i'm gonna get chewed out pretty quick here.

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bigshea13

your gonna look back on this someday and

letigre

good on ya mate! good to see people contributing cos i sure dont! haha. i sympathise with you on the breakage front, caused some damage the other day aswell and as you did, i learnt a valuable lesson which luckily will only cost me 30-50 bones (touch wood)! this is a total blessing cos the tree (acmena smithii) was totally encompassed by a wooden deck with uber breakables. ended up (same as you) becoming a tad complacent and at the end of the day (after avoiding bamboo fencing, bbq, antennae, numerous other plants and terracotta pots) i messed up a head that i was felling out and bent the top of an aluminium outdoor gas heater. cut too much holding wood out. haha. silly mistakes when your tired.

so my 2 cents on the vid is that you, like me, need to spend that extra time at the beginning of the job sussing the whole show out and discussing the game plan. to me, i would have snatched larger sections of wood out on a sling instead of blocking it down. a friend once said "trees dont listen" and they dont. blocks will do whatever they feel like (even if you flip it to land flat it doesnt work 100% of the time). i feel (not having been there myself and just working off the footage) that this would have saved you heaps of time and energy, reducing the complacenty. my mistake was tag teaming with another climber with a different approach and having to get up in the tree at midday and create a new strategy because he'd had a different game plan.

as for all that stuff on your cutting and blunt chain stuff, i suspect you knew that anyway. being an arborist/ treeworker is all about feel, knowledge of wooden fibres specific to species, and how far you can go until you break stuff. thats how you get quick. its purely time and an inquisitive mind. nice work tho mate you still got out of it, and how much did you learn! worth every penny!

Jeff Darby

With some quality training, you'll be OK, Simon. Most folk would get up there and lose it!..A lot of no..no's.and I think you realise how close you came to disarster with some the cuts.
When you find some quality training take the man on the ropes with you,Or on the lower smaller branches help him in working out the wraps on the lowering device,You literally have each others lives in each others hand during the dismantling of a tree.
This clip will be a benchmark for you as you get more proficient in what you are striving to do.

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treekiwi

Hi guys,
obviously most things have been said but just thought i would assist with the constructive critisium... I agree with what others have said, especially with the wide scarf cut and the snap cuts when blocking down, this is ESPECIALLY important as alot of accidents happen when reaching over the chainsaw to hold the piece, very easy mistakes when tired, plus it doesnt give the wrists a good work out for those later RSI and gaunt finger days lol... snap cuts are excellent because they give you two hands to control the pieces instead of push off and hope for the best, it alos gives you a breather to make sure your still in control as you get caught up in the moment... for some reason some people also think that ground felling cuts are not appliable in the tree... like scarfing, wing cuts, undercuts etc, our best weapon against our hacking competion is the control, the minimal damage and the professional manner in which we work... remeber that when you say "this cut will be sweet" or 'it will be close but i cant be bothered climbing out there to put the damn rope further" just my two cents,

Otherwise, good video and excellent use of a lowering rope.... Just remember than friction can be your friend, it never hurts to do a couple of wraps around the tree if a porta warp is not your thing... saved me a few times...

Eric Frei

But never ever wrap the rope around your hand or body, also if you are the climber never grip it in your teeth. Some guy lost a gob full of teeth when the rope was yanked quickly.

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newguy18

i heard a story from clearwater,fla once about a guy redierecting his climbline around his arm while cutting and when the limb fell it caught his rope and dislocated his shoulder.The only time i got teeth on a rope is when adjust my flipline.sometimes it needs to be done.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Sorry, I dont get it, why and how on earth are you using your teeth on a flip line?

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newguy18

When the adjustment knot[vt or tautline are what i use]gets tight i sometimes have to grab the tail of the flipline with my teeth so both hands can adjust the knot.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Man, just get a Gibbs camming device.

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