Fir Topping Movie

rbtree

No harness, no nothing? Good gawd.....anyone on the ground with a rope? chip truck? signs?

rbtree

hmmm....i'm not sure it is possible to do that with any hitch and be safe for descending SRT....or, at least, kosher or "legal"

link to the thread, s'il vous plait?!

newguy18

Oh its possible and it exists,i got crafty and said one day i'm gonna make a hitch that descends srt if it kills me,so after alot of t and e i got one i was happy with,i tested it both srt and drt,it is best suited to descending srt,it works without a figure and it maybe the door to better hitches.As for legal,not sure,just as safe as any hitch i guess.
http://www.treeworld.info/f15/newguy...tech-2195.html

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old schooler

treevet

Never leave stubs? That was the doctrine.

treevet

The statement was NEVER leaves stubs. But sometimes sorta kinda you can leave a couple here but we're right anyway.

Jim1nz, maybe when you get a little more experience you will find the use for a stub now and then.

Eric Frei

Of course we all leave the strategic stub.

That B&W pic, well the guy is spikeless.

Anyway, I got a good gut scar from stubs ... and I dare say perhaps got broken or fractures ribs too when it happened.

I figured the stub would "catch me" if I slipped, I was right, caught me around the navel ... dug into my skin but didn't pierce and ran all the way up under my rib cage. Now a big scar. Sure it hurt and I bled, good! I could barely breathe, and I couldn't sleep well for around 2 months, couldn;t breath in deeply etc so that's why I figure ribs were stuffed too.

There's better ways than stubs, ropes, redirects, slings etc wont stab the crap out of you.

Now a days about the only "stubs" I leave is for my high point or rigging point.

I am talking stubs, not cut off stems at 12'+ dia. The stub that got me was maybe 1.5" dia and sticking out 3".

When it got me and slid up under my rib cage like that I had to move up to get myself off it , I thought I was shishkabobbed on a tree!

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treevet

Maybe that stub in the ribs ( have had multi broken ribs but not from stubs) stopped you from a more significant injury.

Most of my stubs are gonna be on the side or back of stem. Esp. don't want one in the nuts like everyone is talking around.

rbtree

If I was the one who said "never", then ya got me. Cause I use em.....and leave some too...say, as in when logging, I'll leave a couple to descend on, when I'm done bringing the stick down to the necessary height. Or, if I want to have a target to later toss a throw line at.....(often, we'll leave sticks for some time, till crane day...and sometimes the crane co makes us (lasy aszes) climb.

And, I'll forget em now and then, being prone to brainfarts.....got chewed out by Cowboy Dave last summer for leaving one. I'd thought it wouldn't matter, but dang it, that was a tough red oak, GRCS and all--and it was well over 90 degrees that day. Dave ended up kicking me out of the tree, which was a good thing. He'd underbid the tree, we worked 12 hours, I'd drug alot of brush...and an hour after being on the ground and dragging more, I felt like I had heat stroke. (It was his job, lousy Oriental customer wanted the tree down-----the most unnecessary removal I've ever been involved in, tree was perfect and easily worth $30k if it were appraised.)

rbtree

I also use multiple stubs for self lowering conifer tops, if I don't wanna be bothered with setting a block. While I have competent ground crew, I do like to self lower as i know I'll get the friction right for a fast trip down ending with a soft stop or landing. Stubs will be on the back and side, and my lifeline is choked-no where to go. Just gotta make sure the LL stays clear of lifeline and lanyard, don't need any ropeburns.

rugburns maybe, but that's for other fun times.

treevet

Man, I just HATE to take down a beautiful healthy tree. But sometimes you got a very important big money established client and say they are adding on. Tree is in the way. You don't take down somebody else will....result, you are less one big money client.

I guess, and I tell people this....look around at all these house. Likely many nice healthy trees came down to build them including (your) house.

You still feel a little "the murderer" anyway after rationalizing.

TreeDimensional

One thing overlooked so far here is how much slack is allowed in any part of the climbing system? I am sure MOST here have a fairly significant "self preservation gland". When climbing, we all take calculated risks, and do our best to make sure we survive if something goes hay-wire.

One of the things that is unsettling for me is limb walking. IMO this part of the job is the most stressful. If you slip, you're going for a a swing, The amount we swing is proportional to two factors. One, the availability to tie in another re-direct, or 2 we plan to be able to position ourselves so we don't hit the trunk going backwards. This is one area where I would definitely make sure ALL stubs are removed from.

The TCC and ITCC competitions have strict rules as to how much slack is too much. I'm lazy today, but I will look it up if required. Basically IF the climber allows their climbing line to sag below their D's they are warned. The second violation is a disqualification.

I have read and re-read this thread several times and come to the conclusion that there are opinions I value and others that aren't worth considering. Some risk takers, some risk calculators and maybe even a goofball! A tree is like your equipment and knowledge, USE all the tools that are at your disposal, and go home at the end of the day in as good a condition as you arrived. The goal is that the dead parts of the tree or perhaps the whole tree must die, NOT the people working on them.

Just to clarify newguy18's curiosity, that black and white picture was NOT me! I can honestly say I have never entered a tree with so little PPE. Nor do I preach safety to those who will not listen. AND furthermore I use methods and knots that have been tried and proven by my peers in the industry. Old school is the foundation and new school is the art of incorporating advancements in knowledge and equipment.

newguy18

You know i was joking right?

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old schooler

Jeff Darby

You seem to answer the question do you leave stubs?..No I dont..in reality, yes we do but the ones that are left, are left for a reason...once the purpose of the stub has been used it is removed.

So my answer to this question put forward now it's been fully explained is as a general rule no I dont...unless I have a specific reason for it being left in place.

Try getting a limb off a stub with out grcs or lifting device, check out the look of frustration as the climber has to climb down and free it for you, or as as another member mentions you take a swing from a limb walk and impale yourself, I slipped while limb walking and was lucky to a point, as I slamed into the trunk...no stub or small dead branch and I hit side on my hip was sore for a couple of weeks. Overall stubs are dangerous and in the way 98% of the time.

When we dismantle trees we use every bit of our experience to our gain and saftey.

I think we answer NO to this question as we know how dangerous and inconvenient a left stub can be and we trust our own experience, but we dont know the level of experience or how the un experienced interperates what we say.

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rbtree

my comments in bold

TreeDimensional

I stand corrected there may be 2 goofs then! The armpit hair, well I'm keeping that a secret!

Back to the purpose of this thread; Mike did you remove those stubs (right tree) pointing at the camera in your first picture?

rbtree

so, there's multiple goofybalz on this thread

The purpose of this thread was long lost, thanks to a bunch of us rude boys...mike was just showing off, doing some of our huge old growth

But, yep, I believe he did skin said behemoths......

Jeff Darby

Welcome to the Cracker Box Palace..LOL.

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Gord

If you're leaving stubs to catch you if you fall you should really re-evaluate your working methods.

Lots of conifers don't have a limb to turn into a stub for 90' or more...what are you going to do then?

rbtree

Acckk, just what we need here, another crazy Canuck....

welcome, big fella!!

Gord

thanks roger...is it always this goofy here?

Eric Frei

Most of the pics Roger puts up of those doug firs have branches closer to the ground. But perhaps in a more shady forest not?

We dont have that many pines here, more eucs and semi tropical stuff.

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treevet

The expected is not always the way it goes down now is it?

You can hang a block above them, stand on them for a little rest or to make a cut, descend on them on the climbing line to the next cut or ground when ready to slam something then flip your line off them and buck in. Hang a pull line on them. And we're not talking about strictly conifers here I don't think.

I guess if if there is no stub for 90 feet then you cannot $hit one now can you?

It is not always this goofy around here. Just waiting for a genius like you to show up.

Eric Frei

I have similar troubles nearly every day leaving stubs or finding them on palms.

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