Draw| hook| clipping saw up

Eric Frei · 2nd February 2008, 03:11 PM

Cut a long story short I'm putting this video up for fun coz some guys dont know about the hook or bungee lanyards.

Only 4.5mb and around 48secs wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/draw.wmv

JohN Dee · 2nd February 2008, 03:26 PM

Yep me and my dad make those for ourselves... I was actually gunna post up about them in the show ya saddle thread. Will post pics later..

JohN Dee · 2nd February 2008, 03:29 PM

Actually... I don't even use a bungee lanyard let alone a manufactuared lanyard... My dad splices me up my lanyards from 3 strand hemp manilla. Hook a shit carabiner to each end one for the harness one to hook into the hook.

Therrin · 2nd February 2008, 03:34 PM

Ekka, nice work on the western vid.

That is HILLARIOUS!!!!! I had to watch it a couple times, couldn't stop laughing!

Liked the two-saw draw =)

JohN Dee · 2nd February 2008, 04:12 PM

Made by JohN Dee and JayD.

quercus · 2nd February 2008, 08:25 PM

something for you guys to think about when constructing your own chainsaw lanyard.
You gotta incorporate a large heavy key-ring somewhere, just to make sure the saw will break away from the lanyard when for instance, it gets stuck in a cut when trying to cut a large limb. If you don't, chances are that you'll be pulled down along with a falling limb if the lanyard doesn't have a breaking device. A large and heavy key-ring should have a breaking strength of about 15 to 30 pounds. That'll hold the weight of the chainsaw real good under normal use, but when pulled down, it'll break and therefore is safer.Imagine that you construct a lanyard out of 8mm climbing line and 2 biners. That'll hold 500 kg's easily without a breaking ring somewhere. You may think that's not a problem, but do you think that your tie-in point will hold that kind of dynamic loading all the time?

Don't rely on manufacturer's guidelines when they say that gear loops are breaking at a certain load. I know this because a few years back, we pulled apart a petzl harness. Petzl claimed the breaking strength of the gear loops was about 5 kg's, but after testing it has shown that they can easily hold 50 kg's wich is a lot more.One of them broke at 61 kg's.... The main reason for those specs is so you wouldn't use them for hauling heavy things, but stitches and used materials are usually much stronger than they claim they are. Also sometimes I clip in the lanyard on a d-ring for better access. Without a breaking device incorporated, that could result in a fatality.

Eric Frei · 2nd February 2008, 09:01 PM

The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks.

Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard.

There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now.

JohN Dee · 2nd February 2008, 09:12 PM

I like the keyring incorporation onto the home made lanyards.

When it comes down to it, the tear away lanyard is one more part of your PPE, but the best PPE is being taught proper technique and applying it - which is what I like to think I do pretty well.

I will include a keyring of somesort after a few tests with other objects the same weight as my saw...

One more precautionary won't hurt.

quercus · 2nd February 2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks.

Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard.

There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now.

What is the rating on that ring on the MS 200, Ekka?
What will happen when a larger saw without such a ring is used?

Eric Frei · 2nd February 2008, 09:21 PM

Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck?

I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds.

Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere.

You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out.

Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks.

Jeff Darby · 2nd February 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck?

I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds.

Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere.

You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out.

Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks.

The only time John has ever dumped his saw was while he was using a tear away lanyard, It was brand new to... the lanyard it lasted about 10 mins...loose chain...step cut..that'll do it..LOL...He learnt a lot from it.He's came a lonnng way since then!

Therrin · 2nd February 2008, 09:40 PM

Q, sorry but I gotta agree with Ekka on this one.

Besides, let me present a scenario.

You're 60 feet off the ground, have your 361 on the lanyard, and while cutting it catches, kick's back! You lose your grasp and it flies out and around on the lanyard (yes, highly unlikely...)

A moment latter it is dangling under your feet (since your lanyard, of course, wouldn't have it dangling at knee-level).

Replay with Key Ring involved... saw catches, kicks back, flies around!!! Ring snaps! Saw goes flying 60 ft crashing to the ground, obliterating itself into litte liny pieces. You consider super glue! Then you wise up and yell @#$%^&*!!!!!

Eric Frei · 2nd February 2008, 09:50 PM

I bet a lot of good saws have been lost to premmie tear aways.

What's a 66 fully fueled, oiled etc weight, dump that and you have 7kg falling 6', total impact force on lanyard/saddle would be?

How about them Ace boys and McMahon, 120 Huskies up there.

I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know.

quercus · 3rd February 2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know.

Yup done that too... and then the saw flies off even if it doesn't get stuck. So you'd rather unclip it so it can plummit to the ground even if nothing goes wrong, then leave it clipped in and still let it break away when something does go wrong?

hmmmm....

arborjockey · 3rd February 2008, 02:57 AM

Do you really need a 066 upin a tree? Your alot stronger then me. The most unsafe I've felt in a tree is always with big saw. . An 044 is ok with me.

Eric Frei · 3rd February 2008, 09:42 AM

Depends on the tree but I have in the past for eucs, the size and hardness of the tree determines it, like ironbark.

I dont think there's even an ANSI standard on enforcing tear away lanyards. Nor have I lost a saw out of a tree.

playfordtree · 3rd February 2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Cut a long story short I'm putting this video up for fun coz some guys dont know about the hook or bungee lanyards.

Only 4.5mb and around 48secs wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/draw.wmv

Where did you get that hook from?
Does it ever get caught on stuff when your climbing?
Looks like a good setup, much better than the stupid Petzel clip i put on my harness.
At the moment trying to put my saw away is like trying to undo a bra one handed.

Thanks for sharing mate

Eric Frei · 3rd February 2008, 05:14 PM

Arborlink up here sell them but apparently a guy in Melbourne makes them.

Make sure if you get a choice you ask for "long shaft".

playfordtree · 3rd February 2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Arborlink up here sell them but apparently a guy in Melbourne makes them.

Make sure if you get a choice you ask for "long shaft".

I can't believe there is a choice, what man wouldn't want a "long shaft".

Thanks mate, i think i might make one like the Dee's did.

By the way what happened to the PM's?
I cant access my file.

JohN Dee · 3rd February 2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon

I can't believe there is a choice, what man wouldn't want a "long shaft".

Thanks mate, i think i might make one like the Dee's did.

By the way what happened to the PM's?
I cant access my file.

If you attach it to your harness the way we do, make sure you find and file off every little nip and bur or you could risk cutting up your harness from the inside out.

Let me know how you go with the paint job too. My one we only put about 3 coats of paint on it and baked it in the oven.

As for the PM's... Read here: Private Messages Server Dump

playfordtree · 3rd February 2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

If you attach it to your harness the way we do, make sure you find and file off every little nip and bur or you could risk cutting up your harness from the inside out.

Let me know how you go with the paint job too. My one we only put about 3 coats of paint on it and baked it in the oven.

As for the PM's... Read here: Private Messages Server Dump

Cheers JohN,

good advice with the filing thing.
Thanks for the heads up with the PM problem.

playfordtree · 5th March 2008, 06:20 PM

And here she is John.
followed your advice and baked it in the oven.
(tip for others, make sure you get it out of the oven before the missus comes home from work)

I've been using it for a few weeks now and love it.

JohN Dee · 5th March 2008, 06:43 PM

Really playfordtree, what kind of a SORRY mess is that pile in your garage you have there? Not how it should be done.
RESPECTING Garage = RESPECTING Cleanliness

Just messin.

It came out good, good stuff

. Love mine, thinking bout adding another one to the other side of the harness...

playfordtree · 5th March 2008, 06:58 PM

Hey, thats the clean side.
You should see the other side.

Therrin · 6th March 2008, 08:38 AM

So Playford,

I'm having trouble figuring this out, since the hook is only a few inches long.

Is that a short shaft or a long shaft?

Looks like it's got a decent amount of hang to it either way

Victor Lindsay · 6th March 2008, 08:56 AM

I've got to get me one of those chainsaw hooks. I use a carabiner now.

jim1nz · 6th March 2008, 11:51 AM

Hahaha hey Ekka did you put that micro pulley on ya harness just for the photo or what?

Im going to go a bit with both sides on this, i have heard of a good mate who just about got lifted off the top of a spar when he was craning a big section off, over cut and didnt realise until he was being hoisted up with the section because the saw was stuck in it.

I reckon a saw breakaway is important but it has to hold a 020 being dropped from less than half a meter.

Those aussie chainsaw strops like Ekkas got are the best i have ever used, real good stretchy cord and plenty long enough.

George Hayduke · 7th March 2008, 06:04 AM

Thirty five years ago when I started climbing I used a j-hook to hang my Mini Mac 6. Of course, no lanyards back then.

The j-hook was made from a galvanized strap that slips into the ends of chainlink fences to tension the fabric to the corner posts.

Very few new ideas---lots of rediscovery.

Jeff Darby · 7th March 2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hayduke

Thirty five years ago when I started climbing I used a j-hook to hang my Mini Mac 6. Of course, no lanyards back then.

The j-hook was made from a galvanized strap that slips into the ends of chainlink fences to tension the fabric to the corner posts.

Very few new ideas---lots of rediscovery.

Good observation, George, Just because it's an old idea doesn't mean it's still not a good idea thirty five years later, This hook is as simple as they come, I've done some thinking about this hook and there's really only one thing more that could be done IMO,....Can you or anyone else think what it might be?
It's just as simple as the first hook...What else could we do to make this a better tool?
Add your answers here and lets see what we come up with.

George Hayduke · 7th March 2008, 08:14 AM

JD,

Just spill the beans...what is your idea?

2nd February 2008, 03:11 PM	#1
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Cut a long story short I'm putting this video up for fun coz some guys dont know about the hook or bungee lanyards. Only 4.5mb and around 48secs wmv www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/draw.wmv Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd February 2008, 03:26 PM	#2
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Yep me and my dad make those for ourselves... I was actually gunna post up about them in the show ya saddle thread. Will post pics later.. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

2nd February 2008, 03:29 PM	#3
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Actually... I don't even use a bungee lanyard let alone a manufactuared lanyard... My dad splices me up my lanyards from 3 strand hemp manilla. Hook a shit carabiner to each end one for the harness one to hook into the hook. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

2nd February 2008, 03:34 PM	#4
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Ekka, nice work on the western vid. That is HILLARIOUS!!!!! I had to watch it a couple times, couldn't stop laughing! Liked the two-saw draw =)

2nd February 2008, 04:12 PM	#5
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Made by JohN Dee and JayD. Attached Thumbnails __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

2nd February 2008, 08:25 PM	#6
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 368	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up something for you guys to think about when constructing your own chainsaw lanyard. You gotta incorporate a large heavy key-ring somewhere, just to make sure the saw will break away from the lanyard when for instance, it gets stuck in a cut when trying to cut a large limb. If you don't, chances are that you'll be pulled down along with a falling limb if the lanyard doesn't have a breaking device. A large and heavy key-ring should have a breaking strength of about 15 to 30 pounds. That'll hold the weight of the chainsaw real good under normal use, but when pulled down, it'll break and therefore is safer.Imagine that you construct a lanyard out of 8mm climbing line and 2 biners. That'll hold 500 kg's easily without a breaking ring somewhere. You may think that's not a problem, but do you think that your tie-in point will hold that kind of dynamic loading all the time? Don't rely on manufacturer's guidelines when they say that gear loops are breaking at a certain load. I know this because a few years back, we pulled apart a petzl harness. Petzl claimed the breaking strength of the gear loops was about 5 kg's, but after testing it has shown that they can easily hold 50 kg's wich is a lot more.One of them broke at 61 kg's.... The main reason for those specs is so you wouldn't use them for hauling heavy things, but stitches and used materials are usually much stronger than they claim they are. Also sometimes I clip in the lanyard on a d-ring for better access. Without a breaking device incorporated, that could result in a fatality. Last edited by quercus; 2nd February 2008 at 08:35 PM. Reason: not complete

2nd February 2008, 09:01 PM	#7
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks. Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard. There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd February 2008, 09:12 PM	#8
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up I like the keyring incorporation onto the home made lanyards. When it comes down to it, the tear away lanyard is one more part of your PPE, but the best PPE is being taught proper technique and applying it - which is what I like to think I do pretty well. I will include a keyring of somesort after a few tests with other objects the same weight as my saw... One more precautionary won't hurt. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

2nd February 2008, 09:21 PM	#10
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck? I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds. Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere. You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out. Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

2nd February 2008, 09:40 PM	#12
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Q, sorry but I gotta agree with Ekka on this one. Besides, let me present a scenario. You're 60 feet off the ground, have your 361 on the lanyard, and while cutting it catches, kick's back! You lose your grasp and it flies out and around on the lanyard (yes, highly unlikely...) A moment latter it is dangling under your feet (since your lanyard, of course, wouldn't have it dangling at knee-level). Replay with Key Ring involved... saw catches, kicks back, flies around!!! Ring snaps! Saw goes flying 60 ft crashing to the ground, obliterating itself into litte liny pieces. You consider super glue! Then you wise up and yell @#$%^&*!!!!!

2nd February 2008, 09:50 PM	#13
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up I bet a lot of good saws have been lost to premmie tear aways. What's a 66 fully fueled, oiled etc weight, dump that and you have 7kg falling 6', total impact force on lanyard/saddle would be? How about them Ace boys and McMahon, 120 Huskies up there. I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

3rd February 2008, 02:57 AM	#15
arborjockey Mature tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 260	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Do you really need a 066 upin a tree? Your alot stronger then me. The most unsafe I've felt in a tree is always with big saw. . An 044 is ok with me.

3rd February 2008, 09:42 AM	#16
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Depends on the tree but I have in the past for eucs, the size and hardness of the tree determines it, like ironbark. I dont think there's even an ANSI standard on enforcing tear away lanyards. Nor have I lost a saw out of a tree. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

3rd February 2008, 05:14 PM	#18
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Arborlink up here sell them but apparently a guy in Melbourne makes them. Make sure if you get a choice you ask for "long shaft". __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

5th March 2008, 06:43 PM	#23
JohN Dee Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Climbing around the world Posts: 855	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Really playfordtree, what kind of a SORRY mess is that pile in your garage you have there? Not how it should be done. RESPECTING Garage = RESPECTING Cleanliness Just messin. It came out good, good stuff . Love mine, thinking bout adding another one to the other side of the harness... __________________ We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT... Red : Green : Blue

5th March 2008, 06:58 PM	#24
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind Your Sister! Posts: 331	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Hey, thats the clean side. You should see the other side. __________________ Euthanizing South Australian Trees since 2007

6th March 2008, 08:38 AM	#25
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up So Playford, I'm having trouble figuring this out, since the hook is only a few inches long. Is that a short shaft or a long shaft? Looks like it's got a decent amount of hang to it either way

6th March 2008, 08:56 AM	#26
Victor Lindsay Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 421	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up I've got to get me one of those chainsaw hooks. I use a carabiner now.

6th March 2008, 11:51 AM	#27
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: International, Germany Posts: 476	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Hahaha hey Ekka did you put that micro pulley on ya harness just for the photo or what? Im going to go a bit with both sides on this, i have heard of a good mate who just about got lifted off the top of a spar when he was craning a big section off, over cut and didnt realise until he was being hoisted up with the section because the saw was stuck in it. I reckon a saw breakaway is important but it has to hold a 020 being dropped from less than half a meter. Those aussie chainsaw strops like Ekkas got are the best i have ever used, real good stretchy cord and plenty long enough. __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

7th March 2008, 06:04 AM	#28
George Hayduke Former Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 87	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Thirty five years ago when I started climbing I used a j-hook to hang my Mini Mac 6. Of course, no lanyards back then. The j-hook was made from a galvanized strap that slips into the ends of chainlink fences to tension the fabric to the corner posts. Very few new ideas---lots of rediscovery.

7th March 2008, 08:14 AM	#30
George Hayduke Former Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 87	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up JD, Just spill the beans...what is your idea?

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