Draw| hook| clipping saw up

Ekka · 1st February 2008, 08:11 PM

Cut a long story short I'm putting this video up for fun coz some guys dont know about the hook or bungee lanyards.

Only 4.5mb and around 48secs wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/draw.wmv

JohN Dee · 1st February 2008, 08:26 PM

Yep me and my dad make those for ourselves... I was actually gunna post up about them in the show ya saddle thread. Will post pics later..

JohN Dee · 1st February 2008, 08:29 PM

Actually... I don't even use a bungee lanyard let alone a manufactuared lanyard... My dad splices me up my lanyards from 3 strand hemp manilla. Hook a shit carabiner to each end one for the harness one to hook into the hook.

Therrin · 1st February 2008, 08:34 PM

Ekka, nice work on the western vid.

That is HILLARIOUS!!!!! I had to watch it a couple times, couldn't stop laughing!

Liked the two-saw draw =)

JohN Dee · 1st February 2008, 09:12 PM

Made by JohN Dee and JayD.

quercus · 2nd February 2008, 01:25 AM

something for you guys to think about when constructing your own chainsaw lanyard.
You gotta incorporate a large heavy key-ring somewhere, just to make sure the saw will break away from the lanyard when for instance, it gets stuck in a cut when trying to cut a large limb. If you don't, chances are that you'll be pulled down along with a falling limb if the lanyard doesn't have a breaking device. A large and heavy key-ring should have a breaking strength of about 15 to 30 pounds. That'll hold the weight of the chainsaw real good under normal use, but when pulled down, it'll break and therefore is safer.Imagine that you construct a lanyard out of 8mm climbing line and 2 biners. That'll hold 500 kg's easily without a breaking ring somewhere. You may think that's not a problem, but do you think that your tie-in point will hold that kind of dynamic loading all the time?

Don't rely on manufacturer's guidelines when they say that gear loops are breaking at a certain load. I know this because a few years back, we pulled apart a petzl harness. Petzl claimed the breaking strength of the gear loops was about 5 kg's, but after testing it has shown that they can easily hold 50 kg's wich is a lot more.One of them broke at 61 kg's.... The main reason for those specs is so you wouldn't use them for hauling heavy things, but stitches and used materials are usually much stronger than they claim they are. Also sometimes I clip in the lanyard on a d-ring for better access. Without a breaking device incorporated, that could result in a fatality.

Ekka · 2nd February 2008, 02:01 AM

The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks.

Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard.

There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now.

JohN Dee · 2nd February 2008, 02:12 AM

I like the keyring incorporation onto the home made lanyards.

When it comes down to it, the tear away lanyard is one more part of your PPE, but the best PPE is being taught proper technique and applying it - which is what I like to think I do pretty well.

I will include a keyring of somesort after a few tests with other objects the same weight as my saw...

One more precautionary won't hurt.

quercus · 2nd February 2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks.

Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard.

There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now.

What is the rating on that ring on the MS 200, Ekka?
What will happen when a larger saw without such a ring is used?

Ekka · 2nd February 2008, 02:21 AM

Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck?

I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds.

Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere.

You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out.

Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks.

JayD · 2nd February 2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck?

I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds.

Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere.

You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out.

Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks.

The only time John has ever dumped his saw was while he was using a tear away lanyard, It was brand new to... the lanyard it lasted about 10 mins...loose chain...step cut..that'll do it..LOL...He learnt a lot from it.He's came a lonnng way since then!

Therrin · 2nd February 2008, 02:40 AM

Q, sorry but I gotta agree with Ekka on this one.

Besides, let me present a scenario.

You're 60 feet off the ground, have your 361 on the lanyard, and while cutting it catches, kick's back! You lose your grasp and it flies out and around on the lanyard (yes, highly unlikely...)

A moment latter it is dangling under your feet (since your lanyard, of course, wouldn't have it dangling at knee-level).

Replay with Key Ring involved... saw catches, kicks back, flies around!!! Ring snaps! Saw goes flying 60 ft crashing to the ground, obliterating itself into litte liny pieces. You consider super glue! Then you wise up and yell @#$%^&*!!!!!

Ekka · 2nd February 2008, 02:50 AM

I bet a lot of good saws have been lost to premmie tear aways.

What's a 66 fully fueled, oiled etc weight, dump that and you have 7kg falling 6', total impact force on lanyard/saddle would be?

How about them Ace boys and McMahon, 120 Huskies up there.

I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know.

quercus · 2nd February 2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know.

Yup done that too... and then the saw flies off even if it doesn't get stuck. So you'd rather unclip it so it can plummit to the ground even if nothing goes wrong, then leave it clipped in and still let it break away when something does go wrong?

hmmmm....

arborjockey · 2nd February 2008, 07:57 AM

Do you really need a 066 upin a tree? Your alot stronger then me. The most unsafe I've felt in a tree is always with big saw. . An 044 is ok with me.

Ekka · 2nd February 2008, 02:42 PM

Depends on the tree but I have in the past for eucs, the size and hardness of the tree determines it, like ironbark.

I dont think there's even an ANSI standard on enforcing tear away lanyards. Nor have I lost a saw out of a tree.

1st February 2008, 08:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 729	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Yep me and my dad make those for ourselves... I was actually gunna post up about them in the show ya saddle thread. Will post pics later.. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

1st February 2008, 08:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 729	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Actually... I don't even use a bungee lanyard let alone a manufactuared lanyard... My dad splices me up my lanyards from 3 strand hemp manilla. Hook a shit carabiner to each end one for the harness one to hook into the hook. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

1st February 2008, 08:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Ekka, nice work on the western vid. That is HILLARIOUS!!!!! I had to watch it a couple times, couldn't stop laughing! Liked the two-saw draw =) __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

2nd February 2008, 01:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 426	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up something for you guys to think about when constructing your own chainsaw lanyard. You gotta incorporate a large heavy key-ring somewhere, just to make sure the saw will break away from the lanyard when for instance, it gets stuck in a cut when trying to cut a large limb. If you don't, chances are that you'll be pulled down along with a falling limb if the lanyard doesn't have a breaking device. A large and heavy key-ring should have a breaking strength of about 15 to 30 pounds. That'll hold the weight of the chainsaw real good under normal use, but when pulled down, it'll break and therefore is safer.Imagine that you construct a lanyard out of 8mm climbing line and 2 biners. That'll hold 500 kg's easily without a breaking ring somewhere. You may think that's not a problem, but do you think that your tie-in point will hold that kind of dynamic loading all the time? Don't rely on manufacturer's guidelines when they say that gear loops are breaking at a certain load. I know this because a few years back, we pulled apart a petzl harness. Petzl claimed the breaking strength of the gear loops was about 5 kg's, but after testing it has shown that they can easily hold 50 kg's wich is a lot more.One of them broke at 61 kg's.... The main reason for those specs is so you wouldn't use them for hauling heavy things, but stitches and used materials are usually much stronger than they claim they are. Also sometimes I clip in the lanyard on a d-ring for better access. Without a breaking device incorporated, that could result in a fatality. Last edited by quercus : 2nd February 2008 at 01:35 AM. Reason: not complete

2nd February 2008, 02:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up The attachment point on the back of a 200T is designed so that it breaks. Dont know about the rating on gear loops on harnesses but I sure hope they go way over 5kg as many saws weight over that with fuel/oil/bar/chain and lanyard. There's also break away or tear away bungee lanyards now. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

2nd February 2008, 02:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 729	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up I like the keyring incorporation onto the home made lanyards. When it comes down to it, the tear away lanyard is one more part of your PPE, but the best PPE is being taught proper technique and applying it - which is what I like to think I do pretty well. I will include a keyring of somesort after a few tests with other objects the same weight as my saw... One more precautionary won't hurt. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

2nd February 2008, 02:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Find me 1 person yet who has been pulled out of a tree coz the saw got stuck? I haven't found one yet. And I have spoken with hundreds. Most saws will dislodge themselves or break somewhere. You are also supposed to have 2 attachment points when cutting, you are suggesting both break out. Yes you can argue but for me, I don't need one. I'll stick with the rigid set up and keep my saws aloft rather than watch them sail to the ground thanks. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

2nd February 2008, 02:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Q, sorry but I gotta agree with Ekka on this one. Besides, let me present a scenario. You're 60 feet off the ground, have your 361 on the lanyard, and while cutting it catches, kick's back! You lose your grasp and it flies out and around on the lanyard (yes, highly unlikely...) A moment latter it is dangling under your feet (since your lanyard, of course, wouldn't have it dangling at knee-level). Replay with Key Ring involved... saw catches, kicks back, flies around!!! Ring snaps! Saw goes flying 60 ft crashing to the ground, obliterating itself into litte liny pieces. You consider super glue! Then you wise up and yell @#$%^&*!!!!! __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

2nd February 2008, 02:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up I bet a lot of good saws have been lost to premmie tear aways. What's a 66 fully fueled, oiled etc weight, dump that and you have 7kg falling 6', total impact force on lanyard/saddle would be? How about them Ace boys and McMahon, 120 Huskies up there. I have in the past on critical dodgey cuts unclipped it from my saddle just in case, that's always an option too you know. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

2nd February 2008, 07:57 AM	#15 (permalink)
arborjockey Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 127	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Do you really need a 066 upin a tree? Your alot stronger then me. The most unsafe I've felt in a tree is always with big saw. . An 044 is ok with me.

2nd February 2008, 02:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Draw\| hook\| clipping saw up Depends on the tree but I have in the past for eucs, the size and hardness of the tree determines it, like ironbark. I dont think there's even an ANSI standard on enforcing tear away lanyards. Nor have I lost a saw out of a tree. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors