Double Block Bucking

Streyken

Got to play groundie and camera man today, nice change. Here is a 12.5MB clip of how we buck the majority of wood, since it's going to end up as firewood anyway. Doing it this way you never have to put your saw down.
Double Blocking

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

George Hayduke

That scares my pants off!

Second tie in?
One handing?
Chain brake?
Running saw laid across lanyard?

All of the alleged time you 'saved' will go away if/when you get injured/die.

I could only watch the first minute

Streyken

Good. Don't like it don't do it.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Fairfield

ok ok... so if you had a second tie in in place and you used the break and what ever other things we all nit pick on, I think it was a very effective way of doing it.

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Streyken

Thanks Fairfield, I only posted it because I though others might find it interesting. I'm not trying to teach anyone anything. Second tie in isn't mandatory here in BC. I use a 91 strand 5/8th cable as my lanyard. I've never used a second tie for bucking and never will. Been doing this for 20 years (in July) now and have never seriously injured myself, never injured anyone else, and have never had an insurance or WC claim, but I guess I'm just lucky.

For those who want to criticize, until I see some of your work, you're just an armchair arborist, how can I take you seriously?

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Sean Freeman

Well before we all get into bashing Streyken for what we think he should or shouldn't do OH&S wise, lets just admit what we actually do on the job ourselves. (I've already said in the one handing thread that I do it even though I know there's other safer methods.) I think that the vid shows very clearly a very specific application of that technique used on a specific tree species. We don't buck fire wood here, its 22'C even in winter! The only pine species I've worked on are in state forestry and that was manual felling of dangerous trees impossible to harvest mechanically, I have done some pines down the Gold Coast way but they were babies compared to the trees Streyken is cutting.

I won't be adopting that technique, but I can absolutely understand why you use it, what I will say is that you make my loud complaints about carry a MS260 up the tree look very pathetic, I would struggle to be able to one hand your saw with that bar even if I did want to, let alone get each cut so level.

I don't have any video of my cutting, and its unlikely that I'll get any, photos are as good as I can do, so when I've got some I'll post them and you can see my methods/faults an all. Till then you'll just have to trust what I say is fact...thanks for posting the vid mate.

Streyken

That ain't one-handed bucking, this is: Left and right one-handed bucking action

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Sean Freeman

Point taken, also the pics of the beetle hit pine TD are very good too esp the last one..throw it to me! throw it to me!

Streyken

Thanks Boa. Just added my maple pics as well. My comments weren't directed specifically at you; I know you do tree work.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

TrevMcRev

Ok im not an armchair arborist either, but when ANYONE posts a vid or even a pic expect some critisism, or at least some questioning. The great thing about these forums is we see techniques, situations, gear, and species from the other side of the world we've never encounted before.

I dont mind your technique, and can think of times i might use it. For me though its unusal to do it just for the sake of cutting firewood in the tree. Thats what groudys are for. Unless i have to take small blocks at a time due to targets in dropzone i say get it down as big as possible. Either rig or fell out sections about 6 foot long and let the groundies cut it up.

Less time in the tree, especially in spurs, the better.

My only critisism is i reckon the bar is way oversized for the application, but im fussy about the right size saw for the wood im cutting. On a big removal i might switch from ms200(12-14") - 260(16") - 440/460(20/25") - 660(25/30+") as i get to bigger diameter stuff.

Good on ya for posting it, keep em coming. Like boa im stuck at pics at the moment but want to have some video soon.

Streyken

Hey Trev, oh I defiantly expect criticism, just not from an engineer or programmer, etc., their opinion means less than nothing. Very seldom do we get the room to fall larger chunks, except in municipal green-belts; everyone here spends tons on their yards and gardens. I hate rolling/fiddling with logs and the groundie is usually cleaning something else up; I run a very small operation. Just got a chipper and had my first 2k day yesterday, just the wife and myself. Usually we'd use the 266 for something that small, but I ground the chain to nothing the other day and haven't had time to replace it.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

TrevMcRev

Yeah cool i can definately see the sense in it if your on your own more or less.

Eric Frei

Here's a link to Stryken's similar thread on one handing.

One Handed Chainsawing

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George Hayduke

Sooo...where is the criticism in my post? I said that it scares me, you do as you please. It must work for you because you've had years to perfect the technique. That sort of reasoning doesn't fly though. For centuries people thought that the earth was the center of the universe. Look what happened to the astronomers who proved that the sun was the center.

I'm not an engineer or programmer. I've been a full time arbo/climber for around 32 years. Started in treework years before thatMade my share of mistakes and had some accidents for sure. Does that quailify me to share an observation?

If you were under my supervision you can bet dollars to donuts that you wouldn't be doing that.

Streyken

Exactly it George, thanks. Hey, post some pics.

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Tim Craig

That technique's as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker

Thanks for posting the vid though!!!!

Streyken

LOL. Sort of like the vast majority of your posts, hey? Want me to take your opinion seriously, show some of your work where you have to buck 100' of 80cm + wood. Gotta remember that saying though, thanks.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Tim Craig

Hi Streyken,

Firstly, I don't want to have a forum fight with you, OK?

I've been climbing long enough to know that it doesn't really matter how long you've been doing the job, what matters is your approach to your work.

I just feel the technique you've shown in the video is pointless.

When performing that technique do you ever hear a voice in your head saying, "gotta be an easier way of doing this"?

Multiple cutting/vertical bucking of a spar is a recognised technique in treeclimbing especially in confined areas or when you've got a tree that is unsafe to rig from, or too low to use rigging etc. I accept that notion.

But I try whenever possible when workjing down a spar to avoid cutting multiple discs/logs/small sections, as it is hard on the climber and a blatantly inefficient and unsafe way of working down a spar. You just end up getting frustrated and this leads to trying to go faster to get out of the tree, I've worked with over 30 experienced climbers of all ages, not one of them ever said they liked this technique, in fact they all actively tried finding ways to avoid using it.

Leaving the 1st log on top as you cut the 2nd as in your video is just adding insult to injury.

You or your boss must be under a lot of financial pressure if your goal is to work down the spar without ever letting go of the saw.

As for photos of my work, people here don't have to justify their opinions with material evidence, photos vids etc.

You can't claim authority over another member's opinion just because you've shown videos or photos of your work.

I'm still working out how manipulate and post photos, when I do, I'll be happy to accept opinions from people regardless of whether they've posted photos/videos or not.

Take it easy

Streyken

And all I'm asking for is to see an alternative. Bucking on the ground is not more efficient. 90 percent of my work is in confined spaces. And letting down the saw and picking it up again is definitely more tiring. I don’t see the problem with having a block on top, it doesn't bind the saw as the cut is only part through when the top block is sent down. I have tried many methods and this is the fastest without having 3 guys on the ground. Even lowering larger chunks does not get the job done as efficiently. I'm under no financial pressures and I usually only work five hours a day. I choose to work this way because I find it relaxing.

Show me a better way, before calling it "useless." You really did put a smile on my face this morning when I read your post though.

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Tim Craig

LoL!!!!!

Maybe you should try fly fishing or yoga?

If you find that technique relaxing what do you do for kicks??? bank heists!!

I guess you've got into a way of doing something that just feels right for you.

If I attempted to try that technique, a loud voice in my head which would be speaking from experience would say, "STOP!, don't be stupid"

I probably do stuff that you would find pointless.

Ah well, that's life.

Later.

Streyken

Another reason I don't like laying chunks of wood on the ground is we get a mean annual precipitation of just over 98 inches (January of last year it rained for 29 out of 31 days. Try rolling a log that's buried 6"-8" in the ground and then cutting through the dirt that's embedded in the bark ridges. When I get down, the job is done, just the way I like it.

Have a good one.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Fairfield

hey now boys.. lets just all agree that no matter what each one of us are going to cut to a way we are most comfy. No matter what you will always be the last one to answer to after all the back seat drivers have gone home. Not to mention this will be a debate for he rest of are life.

29 out of 31!!!! good god... I thought we had it bad with are floods!!

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Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

Fairfield

It's funny I was working down a spar the other day and I love to use a high line when ever I can, dont know why really just like it I think its fun and we are fast with it soo.. But anyway another tree guy stopped and said he would fire his guys for taking more time to set it up and do it that way all the time. Now I dont do it all the time like that but as much as possble. It made me think of this post. Everyone likes doing things the way they like and who are we to say other wise about it, unless there is danger to property or life.

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Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

Eric Frei

Now this threads getting good, Stryken technique vs ?

The ? is alternatives ..... which are so far

1. Rig it down (top stropping)
2. ?
3. ?

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Drouin Tree Service

A good climber has no problem blocking down,then again not many "climbers" use a saw that can block down...

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TrevMcRev

The main advantage for the stryken style is no need to cut up on the ground.
And with the soft wet ground he has(we sure dont!) and little groundcrew help it may be worth it.

In my typical case, I'd rig out logs if the dropzone was sensitive to damage. We work in a lot of manicured gardens, so often have to. But if i can let blocks fall to the ground they might as well be 2-4 times firewood sized blocks. Less work in the tree the better. So long as a groundcrew can keep up, no point making a too bigger pile of crap at the base.

jim1nz

Hey Stryken, i actually like the way you block spar pols down, you cut the first one then the second one which you can rest the saw in while you push the first block off and change position, then repeat.

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Sean Freeman

We just don't have the trees up here that Streyken has, the only pines I've climbed were in the Gold Coast all the others I've experienced were in State Forestry. hen we block out the stem generally its to reach the point that it can be felled safely, so as Trev said its big pieces to get down to that point.

Even if we had those pines and Firs I don't think I could handle the saw like Streyken, he moved that 66 so easily I thought it was a 26, 46 max !!! I think I need to go back to the gym!

Tim Craig

I work on many large Scots and Corsican Pines, Norway and Sitka Spruce, Western Red Cedar, Western Hemlock, Lawsons Cypress, Silver, Grand and Douglas Firs etc. Next to property or targets like fences, walls etc under the tree.

Options -

1. Rig it down (top stropping)

2. Rig the sections off another tree although the rigging point has to be high enough to allow for good control to avoid long swings, which would mean setting up a holding rope to counter-act the swing.

3. Fell the tree as soon as is practical, if the ground is wet make a landing pile from the branches or timber you've already removed from the tree. This also allows for easy bucking/crosscutting.

Alternatively in some situations I've used 8 x 4 plywood sheets with tyres on top to avoid ground damage, altough this is not always suitable for large trees. I've even heard of some people using soft furniture foam!

4. Crane it out

5. Take bigger sections than log size, 6 to 8ft or longer, make a landing crash barrier as before, use a pulling rope and get the ground guys to pull it over.

One of the biggest problems with blocking out is that in many situations you have to throw the piece into a drop zone, this involves lifting the log and rotating the spine to throw into a specific area. This causes compression of the lower vertibrate resulting in excessive wear over time, your cartilage will deteriorate and you will be left with chronic back pain.

I have a real problem with seeing climbers making more cuts than necessary, I also don't like seeing that kind of tree removal where the climber is manual hand holding everything puttin extra pressure on his body and mind while he is climbing. I know that there are times when it is unavoidable, but when climbing surely you have to find the safest and most efficient way of approaching your work.

Use your ground crew to the your greatest advantage, rig out big branches, instead of hundreds of hand held sections etc, that's what they are there for to make your life as a climber easier.

I try to avoid using big bars when they're not needed. Like in Streyken's video.

Climb safe people

JohN Dee

Streyken that is a very interesting technique, I may give it a go in the future but to ease my mind it'd probably be secondary tied in and chain braking.

Alot of palms I TD they have to be chunked down in firebox sizes like the ones in your vid, as soon as I find a palm that isn't compressed i'll give it a go.

Good job and video, keep safe mate.

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