Double Block Bucking

DBS

which way??? from Oz to ..munchkin land??

-Daryl

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treevet

Was typing w one hand while on phone so didn t explain.

Streyken
You ve got a section above your lanyard that you re cutting in 2 pieces.

I reach up and push with my left hand and cut through and push piece off.

I do the same with the second

You do your tech and make 2 cuts.

You ve still got 2 pieces sitting there and I ve got none.

I am moving down to the next section (let the saw go) with the saw on my right hip running.

You are pushing one piece off and you have let the saw go (running) in the cut and then move down to next section.

It would be close. Funny thing is your technique that got so much bad press is probably safer than mine.

PS To give my credentials that you will ask for in advance as you have done thru thread. Been chunking wood out for 38 or more years (along with the rest of the job). Done all the work in tree by myself w a gm and still do. Never had an accident or insur claim either. Refreshing old thread based in honesty for a change.

Also.

The interesting part comes when you can no longer run the saw thru the piece because it is too heavy. This is where my technique of cutting down on a slant and stop just before pinch and insert 2 twigs in cut where you would put wedges and then finish cut pushing (sliding) piece off.

These techniques by both of us are only for the vastly experienced which do not include most of those objecting to them.

newguy18

I already use that tech,i waas just gonna give streyken's tech a test and see if it works for me.I also when i can take 10' sections and make a deep face cut over half way through and match it with a backcut level with the under cut and cut it up to about 3/8s of an inch and it always free falls where i want it.If i think need be i'll set a pull rope.

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newguy18

Isn't oz also munchkin land?ekka is kinda short.

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treevet

That deep back cut you mentioned, I like to not go over half, w a matching incoming cut is a great cut to use with a big crane pulling a lead into the boom.

PS As Therrin said, you are a bit of an enigma. That is not a bad thing.

newguy18

Man the deep notch works great but its best to keep it about 30 degrees opening.I usually don't even have to push the piece[so noone can ride me about one handing =P].it works best obviously with stuff thats either level or leans where you want it but a pull rope or wedge helps to.=)

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quercus

Still at it guys... But it's sooooo busy lately I can't follow all threads anymore. Gotta work saturdays and sunday mornings too to get it done and it's still pouring in. I am in desperate need of a few mates to get it done, but no-one is qualified.
I'll get up to speed after a while...

Bill, I'll never pound on you again since you got that good climbing line ok...
Don't get me wrong. But my grammar doesn't always allow me to say things the way I want say them.

newguy18

Thanks,i thought i was busted for admitting to one handed blocking.

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Streyken

Treevet, basically the same idea. I often use the one hand push, keep the saw in my hand, step down and start the next cut. As soon as I need to put the saw down, or if I need two hands to place a block, I go to the double block - I hate having to put my saw down. 400-500 blocks into the day and the energy you save is considerable, guess I'm getting old.

Most of the time I block left-handed so the bar is on the bottom, the extra few inches of space means that I don't have to have my lanyard as slack or at as much of an angle - I find it easier on my back when I have a lot of blocking to do.

Just a quick note to those who do block one handed, while keeping the block from pinching the bar by pushing on the top of the block with the other hand, make sure your bar is long enough! I've never used a wedge, but know many guys do - not a bad idea.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

treevet

I hear you, I ve been old for a while.

So far as blocking with the real heavy stuff, and it may be these pines you re doing in mass don t taper out to real heavy stuff, at some point the piece is so heavy and unleverageable with the one hand push/cut tech. that the piece WILL pinch and the alternative to this (in the no law world) is to, as I said, get some twigs the dia. of the saw cut hole/slot, and when mostly thru cut (cut has to be on a downward slant to slide), stop saw and insert twigs in 2 spots where you would put wedges (just break them off in cut hole as the rest can be re-used)
then feather trigger until mostly thru and just when about to finish cut, gun trigger and push piece and the whole works -that is the saw and the piece go over the cliff at once. Pretty long sentence, huh?

Anyway this will make the safety buff cringe. I ve been using this tech for decades and is safest out of a bucket obviously but I use it on spikes and do not advocate it for anyone as saw, sometimes an 088 or 090 is swinging, running (below my feet as I lean with the movement) but idling at this point.
I would never allow an employee to do this, though. Like Streyken said, when you do thousands of td s you may develop technique that doesn't meet the Ansi standards for the masses that it is intended for (to include the relatively inexperienced).

newguy18

kind of like slice cuts,those aren't taught in schools or recomended by the ansi but i've used them alot.

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treevet

You ve just got always know where the kick back quadrant is and where it is going.

newguy18

Yep so true.You also gotta watch your lines and know where they are.

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treevet

That is true and obviously the saw ropes relationship. GM should assist in that as part of his job and at times be asked to pay more attention.

JohN Dee

Most times when I'm chunking, I get a groundy to spot me and on the big wood I ALWAYS make sure i've got their attention. (Throwing a small log at them usually helps)

Groundy has a BIG duty of care whilst the climber is in the tree, if the climber somehow kills himself cause' he cut his lines while chunking, you can bet that the groundies balls are going to get anywhere from burned to CUT OFF by Work Cover.

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newguy18

Thats great for some but alot of the time,i'm by myself so i have to be extra careful not to mess up.

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JohN Dee

Yes, I'm aware there are MANY people out there that work trees alone. Just means you have to be EXTRA SUPER CAREFUL and if a shortcut presents to you in your face, don't take it. Thats my take and opinion on working by yourself...

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newguy18

I don't take shortcuts on anything,it almost always leads to an accident and shows poor workmanship and it shows you have no pride in your work.

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Grais

Wow, thanks for letting me know that your opinion is completely unvalid and useless.
You say youve climbed for 20 years, yet you seriously feel it is more efficient to buck a tree as you climb down it, wake up man.
That video is scary, that dude is too fast, of course though, he's trying to show off for the camera, I mean christ hes so fast he doesnt even have time to knock the one block off before he starts cutting again, or God forbid, check his lanyard placement, but hey I understand,I mean how much time do you need to waste right.....
One day hes going to be making that super fast cut, with his great big falling and bucking saw, and slice right through his lanyard and then land on the ground in a heap.
Have fun cleaning him up.

Id say stay safe, but I really dont think it would make a difference, instead Ill just say,
Good Luck.

Bruce Hopf

Just a question. Since that you have to handle the block to get the Bar from under the block of wood that you just cut, why wouldn't you just shove it off the trunk of the tree, and handle the block once, instead of handling it twice like you have shown it here? Just a question, but it looks like a little extras work unnessasarily. Bruce.

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JohN Dee

I use this technique as often as I can. I love it and I reckon it it so much more efficient then bucking up on the ground. It comes down to your endurance, strength and personal (not bureaucratic) safety conscientious (not particularly in that order) which brings you home safely to your family at night.

Hey Grais at this point in time you are an arm chair arborist - one that hasn't even proven himself yet. Put up or shut up.

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Therrin

Awww, poor older guy. Too much noise and mess for you?

You use spikes while pruning and "gaff em good" eh? You sound mighty proud of that.

You might choose not to so strongly lambast someone for the way THEY do things, when YOU have your own shit to deal with.

Wake up??? Blocking down a tree is MUCH easier than cutting it on the ground. You sound a little how you argue the point. I'm guessing you just don't have the muscle to hold the saw that long anymore.
When it's still upright you don't have to worry about ground conditions. Rocks, landscape, dirt, etc etc etc, that can make bucking on the ground slower and more difficult. Why do something twice if you can do it the first time?
Granted, you're welcome to do things the way you do, but slamming his technique because you don't have the finesse for it is hardly the way to go.

Also, he most likely wouldnt "SLICE" right through his lanyard. You apparently havent read the rest of this thread. That is a 91 strand 5/8th" cable, not prone to just slicing right through.

Victor Lindsay

This is an old tread.

I once saw a youtube of a chainsaw cutting threw a cable lanyard, so I'm not over confident with them. He had a second TIP, right? And they where spaced appart, right? It's early, I don't know.

Therrin

This IS an old read, but he (as well as you) apparently didn't read it.

You can't compare HIS steel lanyard to "typical" wire-core lanyards. They're two completely different ball games. His is significantly beefier and stronger.

He stated that using a brand new & sharp chain, on a 90degree angle, it took him four entire seconds to cut through his lanyard material. (yes, he ran a test, and that's using his BIG saw)

Typically if you accidently hit your lanyard it wouldnt be at a full 90 degree angle, and HOPEFULLY you wouldnt sit and grind on it for a full 4 seconds.

Victor Lindsay

No reason for caution then.

Streyken

Bruce, this technique really shines on 60cm + diameter rounds. It allows two hands for pushing and block placement. It does take some getting use to, I remember dreading bucking large trees when I first started, I was sore and tired, but now I really do find this technique relaxing.

Grais, I've done a lot of work in your area (Kamloops, Kelowna, Shuswap, Salmon Arm, etc.) and, in general, the majority of the trees in your area are easy to access and are little more than over-sized shrubs. An 80' tall 50cm diameter pine on hard ground may be easier to buck on the ground, three cuts and you're down and the pieces can be rolled by hand. I think we're talking about completely different circumstances; the climate, terrain and trees are entirely different. We get about 4 times more annual precipitation than you. The trees, in general, are much larger on the coast. Lot size, population density, vehicle access, etc., etc., etc. - all different.

Please share your technique; how do you move a 3000 lb + log by hand? What is your speedy method for removing the dirt and pebbles embedded in the bark ridges? Then do you stack the wood in a pile, or just leave it all over the yard? How about a log on a slope, still easier on the ground? I live in a rain forest at the base of a mountain. I think you knew all this, you probably just had a few and decided to take the rod and tackle out.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

Therrin

aww don't sulk vl2007

There's plenty of reason for caution.

I'm just saying that the reason you stated isn't what you thought it was.

Now if you said something like "constantly reaching your arm up and across the bar like that gives you a much more likely rate of having some kind of accident one day when something unexpected happens."

I just can't refute that.

Victor Lindsay

Bruce Hopf

OK, now I understand. Once the Bar of the chain Saw is in the Cut for the next Block, you don't have to worry about the Chain Saw falling when you are rocking the Finished Cut Block off the Trunk of the Tree.
Before it didn't make any sense to me to handle the Block of Wood twice, but now it does. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I learned something new today. Thanks. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

boreality

I entered this thread picking apart the negatives of the technique, but tried it , liked it, and realized this is the best use of these forums. Unless we work with different companies, or hire climbers who get around, or go to climbing comps, we will be stuck with the same old techniques. I've learned a couple tricks off these videos and thanks to those who have taken the time to share them. I'd still be hip thrusting, and footlocking, if Ekka hadn't posted the vid of placing a long lanyard high on the stem and walking up the stem, effortless, works great. Keep 'em coming and don't be too critical, information is power.