Double Block Bucking

cut-right

what? do you know where he is in this video. Then what are you commenting for. Really?

Streyken

Thanks, Cut-right. I started using the bigger saw when the chain on Husky 266 got trashed and I didn't have the time to pickup a replacement. Now, I like the long bar so much, I use it for almost all my bucking, even when I don't need to.

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Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

boreality

Cut-right I like the double buck, but I like to have a glance at the ground before dropping a 30lb object from 50 feet. Accidents happen, and it only takes once.

quercus

I'll be adopting the double bucking tech too, looks great when using the 441 in the tree and never really thought about doing something like that... BUT...

I'll be using two tie-ins like I always do...
I'll be using a smaller bar because this one is a bit oversized for what we have here
I'll be using the chainbreak when I take my hands off of it...
I'll never ever let a saw bar touch my primary tie in, not even when in resting or chainbreaked condition... (the exhaust can melt the rope...)
I'll be looking down when I throw some blocks off...
I'll be holding the saw with two hands...


I'm used to cutting right through when blocking down... even with the 200T I do crossovers with my forearm, but I'm wearing chainsaw cut resistant sleeves all the time. Really I like the tech and already tried it on a big pine but...

The pics you posted about one handing the big saw gave me a bit of a scare though... The cinema inside my head displayed a film of a kick back with your forearm falling down while the large bar sliced and diced a piece out of your upper torso with lungs falling out, and stopped eventually before reaching your spine wich would hold you together for a period of time... your heart stopped pounding before you had the chance to ever reach the ground, leaving you suspended in the tree for about 30 minutes with blood pouring out of the wounds a bit...A firetruck came and people with helmets and fire resistant pants came out and started vomiting all over the place while they were drawing straws to decide who was the lucky soul that would have to go up into the ladder to get you down... Second place was the one to collect forearm and lungs... Then there was a scene of a cop who came to your house and having to tell your wife and kids about how you died, but fact was that it wasn't really going to help her remembering you by allowing your wife to ever see you again, not even to identify you... they assumed that it was really you whilst it wasn't really necessary to get a positive ID from a relative or friend, so the license plate of your truck was enough... A lot of shouting and crying, and fainting was going on too, whilst parents were ariving to comfort your wife and kids a bit...Then guys with a coffin came, and they started vomiting all over the place too, because this was really not an everyday scene for them... One of them even decided to get out of the business the next day... They bolted the coffin down firmly with loc-tite on the screws to never ever have to open it again and showing to the world what kind of a ????ING IDIOT YOU WERE TO NOT EVEN WEAR ONE CUT RESISTANT SLEEVE ON THAT FOREARM THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS FRIGGIN' RIDICULOUS SITUATION.

That goes for all of you guys who one-hand big saws without protective sleeves or protective vests. And I don't care about how warm it is where you guys live , or whatever situation it may be or what you might think of this, but the scenario posted above is a real live situation we've had here a few years ago with a treeguy who planned on staying alive FOREVER!!!

Therrin

Correct me if I'm wrong guys,

But I think Streyken's flip is a 5/8" trawler cable. Immune to melting from resting a hot saw on it, and probably likely to stop a fully running chain dead in it's tracks.

There's a good chance he's not looking down if he knows the entire DZ is safe to "let the big wood fly and pound the garden", especially if there's noone down there.

The rest I don't have too much to comment on, except:

If we're talking about the scenario you just posted Q, I'm seriously doubting that your little sleeve thingie is really gonna stop a big burly saw bar dead still. I'm thinking that pure momentum alone would sever your sleeve into two nice neat sections, with a part of your arm in each. I don't know aobut the whole slamming into the chest part after that... I'm sure a sleeve would help to choke it up and stop it eventually, especially if it's Engtex, but I just can't see all that power just dying when coming into contact with your sleeve material.
I'd be more of an advocate of not reaching across with it running, sleeves or not.

You painted a pretty detailed picture though. I'm surpised that a kickback and relaxed guy like you has any strong opinions about anything, usually you'r so quiet on here. ()

Streyken

Thank-You! This is what I was trying to say before. There was NO chance of anyone getting in the way or a block rolling.

As for the rest - LOL. Get off the pulpit and put some muffs on, I think you must already be deaf, so as not to be able to hear yourself. It's amazing what people think they can read into a situation they know only a fraction about.

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

arborjockey

I was waiting for the mighty oak to step into this thread and ream that vid. as for me im out of this one

JohN Dee

I think those sleeves actually promote more one handing... "She'll be right mate, my sleeve will stop her if it happens."

Its been said many times before, the best form of PPE is knowing/learning proper technique and deploying it.

I use this technique quite abit, with all sizes of saws. It's a great technique.

You know how different climbers use different friction hitches that help them out in different ways to perform their job as efficiently and safely? Well I think it's the same here with this situation.

Sean has developed his way of being comfortable and safe whilst performing this technique. I've developed my own (two tips and chain break). Now you're developing your own, Quercus.

It all comes down to each to his own.

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Red : Green : Blue

quercus

It happened with a 200 once and stopped it... I guess a 441 or a 660 could get it ripped a bit, but I guess I'll have to try that in the next couple of days. Guys, don't get me wrong... I like the double bucking tech wich streyken proposed to us and I use it too now... The cutting right through thing too... I do that all the time... But one handing a very big saw and crossing over with my forearm is definitly a NO-NO....

No shit, What I posted really happened a few years ago here...I'm guessin' it wouldn't be bad to learn from it. But hey, every one has his own technique, I guess...

Streyken

Q, I personally know 9 guys who use this technique on a daily basis - as seen in video. They have 13 to over 40 year of individual experience (yes the over 40 is still climbing!) and in that time there hasn't been one , not one, injury. You seem like a good guy, which is why I'm not going to get into it, but if you're going to stand on the soapbox you'd better damn well be a saint and not just a preacher. A broad awareness of context is always key.

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

DoG

I have to ask. What is the logic in this technique?
I respect your years of experience and safety record as mentioned, but
I'm just guessing that you have been doing this so long and are so good
at what you do, you found something to make your days a little more
enjoyable and found this technique safe.

Am I correct in my assumption? We just hope you don't cut a little too
low one day!

Enjoyed the vid by the way, you are comfortable on the tree and I
learned a bit more.

Streyken

Hey DoG, no it's not for my amusement. I was taught this technique when I was first starting out. The point of it is energy conservation and speed. Depending on who's cutting, I'd estimate it to be 1.5 - 2 times faster than most other methods. Checkout how many blocks came off in the video in a minute. On one tree you may say what's the point, but it's not uncommon to do 6-9 trees a day where everyone of them has to be pieced down, and a short fir or hem is still about 100'. It's not for everyone or every situation, I just put it out there. There are many things I see online that would never work here, or that I would never consider doing, given my overall work environment (trees, weather, location, etc., etc.), but I still enjoy seeing how you guys do things.

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

kailas

Ehm...I guess I have to correct you... cause here some guys made tests about the wire core lanyard and... yes is safer than a rope but,
is not lasting more than 2 - 3 seconds if you go through it with a chainsaw...
ok 020 is not so powerful but already a 036 has a great power and speed.


Same story for the protection sleeves, I do wear 'em too but, this should never makes you feel out of danger. Their protection, at least of the one I use that are from Pfanner, are rated "klass 1 chainsaw protection 20m\s" that means 20 meter per second. 020 has a maximum speed of 29 m\s....so you can figure it out what can happen if you cut down straight at the maximum speed!!
you can imagine a bigger saw!

The same is for trousers and jacket, sure they do help for protection but they never be a total shield.
there are also klass 2 and 3 protection garments but they are so thick that are not confortable and not suitable for climbing.

This was just to make the point out.

About the method streyken use, I think that is quite nice, for particular situation or when you don't have groundies cause evryone is climb in a trees (this is quite common in my evryday work), and you want to have the piece made when you reach down.
and as I see is quite fast when you get rythm. Sure if I cut the tre in only 2 or 3 part I'll definetely prefer, but if I need to make little piece cause of narrow place, but no problem for throwing it down, then this way could be really interesting.
Usually when I need to do this I make a double cut one over the other, then I pull the chain break, let it hangs down, and with both hands I pushed it down or throw it wher it has to fall.
But yr is very fast.
I like very much when you rest your saw (little to big yes!) in the cut and you step down, for sure you have always to know where you are cutting and where is your lanyard. But is a way to do fast the work... and after go ...



And I don't think is too much dangerous ( except for the second line that I us e always exept in easy and low trees), even if he don't break the chain, cause is not really need I think, because he is cutting continuosly.


Many people...many opinion!

Cent co, cent crap, cent cù ducent ciap!!!

(that is my dialect... it means:
100 head, 100 mind, 100 butt, 200 butt cheeks!!!)

Funny No!

Therrin

Ya quoted me and still managed to get it wrong.

Streyken's flip is 5/8" TRAWLER CABLE, it's NOT a wire-core lanyard type of flip.


I've got those kevlar sleeves from when I was a glass tempering technician in Chicago. Cept I wouldn't think of using them as chain protection!!! I just wear em on brushy/spiky stuff to keep from gettin my arms torn up by the tree.


Hmm, I just downloaded his vid and watched it again. And after the argument on here about checking the DZ... it looks like the guy is actually doing that. Everytime he throws a block off he's lookin in the direction it's going. Did you guys see that?

newguy18

I'm gonna try the double block bucking on my next td.Its gotta be quicker than cutting with one hand and pushing with the other.definatly quicker than haveing a groundy pull each block over too.I know one handing and not using step cuts,q's gonna get on my case here pretty quick.

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old schooler

Therrin

Ohhhhh stoppppp.... Q's a good guy. We probably harass him too much. Besides, I haven't seen him around lately, where's he been?

He kinda reminds me of Legolas the Elf, on Lord of the Rings.

newguy18

Yeah hes a good guy,never said he wasn't he just goes by the book on everything and gives those of us who admit to doing no nos a hard time.probabley give me a hard time about not wearing gloves or sleeves or chaps while climbing.It isn't required acording to the z[except for ground operations].

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old schooler

Therrin

Bill... you're an enigma.

newguy18

How do you figure?I never said q was a bad guy i just give him a hard time for giving me a hard time.I've always lived on the wild side i'm just more careful while running a chain saw.

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old schooler

Streyken

LOL... Le'me tell ya whipper-snappers bout' a guy who never wore gloves, said he never would, cuz... etc., etc., then he got married... 15 years later, the guy's still wearing gloves - Perspective. To be honest, I did a test - 266 sharp chain- taught lanyand, 90% angle -- cut through in over thee seconds less than four. I've only seen a lanyard cut into twice in 20 years. Both times the chain was useless, obviously not a 90% angle. Most sane people are well aware of the limitations and conditions; absolutes don't apply. Want to get me started, just say the magic words, "this is the only way!"

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

newguy18

What are the magic words?

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old schooler

Streyken

"This is the only way..." I've seen too much B.S. for that!

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

newguy18

This is the only way.

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old schooler

Streyken

LOL! You're luck I've had my rum for the night, or I'd buy a ticket to Florida right now to track you down!

__________________

Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all...
but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

newguy18

No need to track me down,just follow the yellow brick road.

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old schooler

Therrin

Find the path of destroyed trees, broken quads, old trucks for sale, and used piles of Lowes rope!


Appreciate the insight Streyken. So you actually have cut through the trawler cable then? Sounds like it'd be hell on a chain.

I stand corrected on the indestructability issue...

kailas

What is a trawler cable?...he said is 5/8" 91 strand?...
I don't know about this , i thought it was a normal wire core lanyard..

And I was not meaning kevlar sleeves, which are nice but just for handsaw or spikes or scratches, I was meaning real chainsaw protection sleeves, here is a picture


they are by pfanner stretch air from austria, but either this I will not trust so deeply..

this brand makes very nice chainsaw protect. trousers, stretchy and very strong. I have it for 4 yrs now and still in good condition.

kailas

PFANNER - Funktionelle und innovative Schutzbekleidung für Arbeit und Freizeit.

here's a demo test video from pfanner, and the trousers are blocking a 026 (seems) at full power, but i'm not sure about the trousers type, this could be also the klass3, which has more thick protection..

newguy18

Destroyed trees?Just because most of my work is removals doesn't mean i destroy trees.My quad just needs a new air filter so it can be ridden again.

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old schooler

treevet

I think one handing and pushing with the other would be faster than this tech.