Cuban royal palm removal using undersized 18" bar on MS440 accurately

Ekka · 23rd March 2007, 04:44 AM

Well, it was good, it was fun, and it was a good recording.

You know, so often I see people running around with like 30" bars on small 44's to git 'r' done! Heck, the saw shop sells plastic home-owner Stihls with 25" bars, I dont even have that on my 66

Just improve your saw skills, accuracy is not an issue really.

Anyway, this video is about 3.30mins long and 18.5mb WMV

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/cuban.wmv

Kevin · 23rd March 2007, 05:36 PM

Nice video and felling job.
You would be wasting energy using a small saw on a large tree.
Use the right tool for the job.

Grizzly · 4th April 2007, 06:22 PM

Ive been in that kind of a bind before and it was a real pain to drop that pine with out a kanger pushing it over. I ended up hooking chains to it and my truck. It ended up sliding off the stump before it got cought in the lawn and fell like a ton of bricks. So much for digging a hole for a small backyard pond.

4stroke · 4th April 2007, 10:19 PM

Great video and a nice soundtrack

Tim Craig · 6th April 2007, 12:07 AM

Ekka,

Do you guys always start your notches off with the lower horizontal cut then go onto make the top angled cut down to meet it?

Over here we do the exact opposite, just wonder why you guys do it that way?

Thanks

TC

Ekka · 6th April 2007, 12:19 AM

Coz we're better.

Kevin · 6th April 2007, 06:19 AM

Tim, do you know why it's done in the manner you describe?
It is the proper method.

Ekka · 6th April 2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tim, do you know why it's done in the manner you describe?
It is the proper method.

Dream on

Tim Craig · 6th April 2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tim, do you know why it's done in the manner you describe?
It is the proper method.

I always assumed that it was because you can judge the direction of fell much better by doing the top cut first, you can see the sight lines on the saw(Husqvarna+Stihl). It also allows for a more comfortable hand position which in turn allows for more precise control of the saw and direction of fell.

Just seemed to make perfect sense when I was shown it.

Why do some people do the undercut first?

TC

Tim Craig · 6th April 2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Just improve your saw skills, accuracy is not an issue really.

Accuracy is a big issue for me.

Accurate cuts mean precise felling.

Does that foam really work as a protective barrier?

I use plywood with tyres on top.

TC

Kevin · 6th April 2007, 12:09 PM

Tim;
It allows the top to drop off the spar faster decreasing the bending moment on the spar.
I use an open face on those most of the time.

For real accuracy on the ground I use gunning sticks to mark the corners of the notch.

TREE-SURFER · 6th April 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Coz we're better.

I love you Ekka.

I find it alot more accurate to place the bottom cut first and then drop in from the top to make the felling cut; Even though when I done my NPTC's it is the reverse ("The proper way") . I suppose you establish what is best and better for yourself. I'm pretty sure Ekka and the boys would criticise me on my climbing ways, like not using a wire core flipper, or not wearing a skid lid when installing my lines when making my primary climb....Every 1 is different.

Ekka · 6th April 2007, 01:38 PM

Some put the flat cut first, some put the angle, some do a conventional notch, some do a humboldt, some people open it up real wide etc.

Forestry fellers tend to put the angle in first, I work with one here occasionally and that's what they were taught.

When we did our course we were told neither is absolutely correct over the other but do what works for you. I have been cutting doing the flat one first for so long it's spot on.

But you still use the gunning sights on the saw. You'll notice many people of either persuasion also lie the saw in the notch flat then check by looking down the gunning sights.

Also, I cut a lot of my scarfs from standing at the front of the tree, and same when I'm up a tree. Surprisingly I have done so many of them they're pretty bang on by tracing the gunning sight over my left shoulder. You simply cannot in all circumstances cut a notch comfortably from behind.

Tim, when I wrote this,

Quote:

Just improve your saw skills, accuracy is not an issue really.

I mean if you improve your saw skills accuracy isn't an issue coz it comes with practice, to me cutting with an undersize bar ... I fear not to be accurate coz I know I will be. Yes, perhaps I could have worded it better (accuracy is not really an issue if you improve your saw skills to gain it)but the idea is if you can be well accomplished in many situations you'll be a better sawyer for it.

Some guys simply are stuffed when the bar cant deal with the tree in one easy swoop. However if you were production felling that's a different story. I like to shake it up a bit, also the largest bar I have is a 25" on a 66, and I aint been caught out yet but I am in suburbia.

Tim Craig · 6th April 2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tim;
It allows the top to drop off the spar faster decreasing the bending moment on the spar.
I use an open face on those most of the time.

For real accuracy on the ground I use gunning sticks to mark the corners of the notch.

Kevin,

I think you misunderstood my first post re notches, I was refering to order of the cuts of the notch, I was taught Top cut 1st, Undercut 2nd, felling cut 3 rd.

What the guy did in Ekka's video was Undercut 1st, Top cut 2nd, felling cut 3rd.

Why did the guy do the undercut 1st?

I agree with you re angles of notches for different situations.

When felling at ground level, I almost always go for a 60 degree cut, as this allows for more control if the hinge holds long enough, I am normally felling decidous hardwood species which are not evenly balanced straight poles like spruce. Also, i am nearly always felling in tight areas with not much room for error.

I used to use 45 degree notches for felling until i noticed the hinges were breaking too early and the tree began to go whichever way it was weighted.

I'm having much more success the last few years with the 60 degree cut.

I do this by making the normal 45 degree top cut 1st then on the undercut I make the cut about 15 degrees to come up and meet where the top cut ended.

When climbing, it varies from extreme closed notches to wide open notches(yelling mouth).

Ekka · 6th April 2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Craig

Kevin,

I think you misunderstood my first post re notches, I was refering to order of the cuts of the notch, I was taught Top cut 1st, Undercut 2nd, felling cut 3 rd.

See, we weren't, we were allowed individual freedom and flair but it had to be right, no overcuts, no Dutchman, lined up straight and level etc.

23rd March 2007, 04:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Cuban royal palm removal using undersized 18" bar on MS440 accurately Well, it was good, it was fun, and it was a good recording. You know, so often I see people running around with like 30" bars on small 44's to git 'r' done! Heck, the saw shop sells plastic home-owner Stihls with 25" bars, I dont even have that on my 66 Just improve your saw skills, accuracy is not an issue really. Anyway, this video is about 3.30mins long and 18.5mb WMV www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/cuban.wmv __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

4th April 2007, 06:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Grizzly Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California Posts: 24	Ive been in that kind of a bind before and it was a real pain to drop that pine with out a kanger pushing it over. I ended up hooking chains to it and my truck. It ended up sliding off the stump before it got cought in the lawn and fell like a ton of bricks. So much for digging a hole for a small backyard pond. __________________

6th April 2007, 12:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Coz we're better. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

23rd March 2007, 05:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kevin Sappling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 19	Nice video and felling job. You would be wasting energy using a small saw on a large tree. Use the right tool for the job.

4th April 2007, 10:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
4stroke I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1	Great video and a nice soundtrack

6th April 2007, 12:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tim Craig Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 94	Ekka, Do you guys always start your notches off with the lower horizontal cut then go onto make the top angled cut down to meet it? Over here we do the exact opposite, just wonder why you guys do it that way? Thanks TC

6th April 2007, 06:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kevin Sappling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 19	Tim, do you know why it's done in the manner you describe? It is the proper method.

6th April 2007, 12:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kevin Sappling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 19	Tim; It allows the top to drop off the spar faster decreasing the bending moment on the spar. I use an open face on those most of the time. For real accuracy on the ground I use gunning sticks to mark the corners of the notch.