Chain filing - sharpening chainsaw| sharpen chain video

Eric Frei

This is by Vellorbe, pretty useful for those not in the know.

5.24mins and 28mb WMV

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/v...sharpening.wmv

__________________

DBS

Great Vid Ekka.. i represent one of those "not in know".

but i know now...

__________________
Stihl MS 200T
Stihl MS 361

shaggs

Another good'un. cheers

Eric Frei

Some talk about gullets lead to these pics.

Also I'll reveal the ACME Palm Slayer Version 1.0 profile for a good days slaughter.

Here's a pretty typical tooth that needs attention. This has been filed a lot using one of those guides and it may not allow the file deep enough to "clear out the gullet".



Now here's the same sized file used free hand to file out the "gullet".



And don't be afraid to experiment, years of experience has taught me different courses for different horses. This is the palm slayer profile. I achieve this by tilting the head on the Oregon grinder as far as possible and dress the wheel accordingly with an acute angle and for clearance of the rakers.

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________

newguy18

similar to my oregon filing guides.I never use the as I can freehand pretty well but I do use my depth gauge and everyforth sharpening I basically reset the chain.

__________________
Have your say join us today.


old schooler

Bruce Hopf

Pretty Interesting information. I could never Free Hand Filing of sharpening my Chains. Dad couldn't either, and that is why we used one of those Oregon Filing Guide for a lot of years.
7 or 8 Years ago, I purchased a Tecomec Chain Grinding Machine, that is built in Italy, the same Factory that builds EFCO, and Oregon Chain Grinders.
I still use my Filing Guide, just to File down one of the Dept Gauges, and then I e=set the Grinding Machine, and I do the rest of the Depth Gauges. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Therrin

I use a Stihl electric hand grinder or a dremel using stihl's coolgrind stones.

I can sharpen a 20" chain on the saw, to razor sharp in about 2 or 3 minutes.

I've got the hand ones I just never really use them. I can use a 3/8" Pico stone to go in and clean out the gullet really well on normal full size 3/8" chain.

This system is also really effective at reshaping the cutting head after you've nicked something stuck in the bark, like concrete or metal. Often the cutting head will have a big nick out of it or will be deformed and you can grind and reshape it to maintain its useability.

Bruce Hopf

Wow Sharp Looking Dude. Has any one ever used or heard of the Miracle Chain Saw Sharpener before. I got one in a bunch of stuff from eBay, and I never heard of it before.
It clamps onto the Guide Bar, and it has two Guides one for the Left Side Cutter, and one for the Right Side Cutter. You insert a Grinding Wheel into a Wheel Drive Bushing, either a 5/32", or a 7/32", and you install it into the Chuck of the Drill, or Dremel Grinder. I'll try and Post some Pictures of it later. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Therrin

That'd be interesting to see.

I think I tend to take a tad too much off the rakers because I dont use a depth guage when I do it. I think I've heard mixed stories about this. Do lower rakers make for uneven and difficult cutting or do they make the cutting more aggressive?


Oh, and yes Bruce, it's amazing what a little soap and water can do. I was suprized walking around all day to not find sawdust in my slacks or shirt pocket =P

spartek

Ive hand filed by hand for years without gauges, only a wooden handle for fil and a depth gauge to give an idea of where I'm at on the rakers. I confess that I finally pussed out and bought an Oregon grinder , Im runnin about fifteen saws now and cannot keep up.I have got piles of chains only used once . The carpel-tunnel voices in my head said, "BUY THE GRINDER"

spartek

Low rakers allow more wood to be cut. The key is to find YOUR sweetspot. It is probably a mortal sin to do so ,but I like mine about .040'' . You need the umph to hang on ,as the saw shutters at first, but when you hook up into the wood , LOOK OUT BABY.

Therrin

Yeah I hear ya on that one, I'd LOVE to pick one up. I've a relatively small inventory compared to most of you guys, but still, sharpening 28 chains is a real PITA.

I usually set aside an evening for it... turn some music up, sit outside at my "saw work table", and let the kitten roam around while I'm working. Get in a kinda groove for a couple hours and just go with it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spartek, that's .040" below the level of the cutter? Where's it measured from?

spartek

Yeah ,Its measured off the highest point of the cutter.If you dont keep them even though , your cutters work at different rates and thus wear at different rates, leading to premature wear. I have a standard raker gauge of .025''. I file and then hold gauge on chain to check, I know that I should be .015 below the gauge. you get a "feel" for it .I can go through 12 trees sometimes, so I know I'm doin sumpn right.

bobdoesit

All that fancy tackle, you could get you Mrs to do the chains for you..... But seriously i personaly have only ever sharpened by hand and after 2 or 3 sharpenings i take my saw with chain on it and use my bench grinder on the guides. It is heavy going with the bigger saws and longer bars but for me very effective. I do find if i do take the guides just a tad to low the chain does grab a bit but i then compensate by holding the weight of the saw a bit. Find with softer timber its usually ok. This is probably not a technique that all could use comfortably but you could say i am a dab hand at this now.


Oh, Climb safe out there.

Rob.

spartek

Get the mrs. to do the chains ? , thats an awesome idea. She starts training tomorrow.

treevet

I do the rakers on my Stihl chain grinder and do the cutter heads by hand. I take just a "c" hair off of new chain rakers before putting them on. If I was doing a clearing job with somewhat unskilled cutters I prob would resort to also doing the cutters with the machine (lots of dull chain and need for quick replacement), but they take too much off and take the temper out of the steel (don't care what anyone says ...it does).

The grinder cuts all the rakers evenly and if rakers or cutters are uneven then the cut is going to banana on ya. Take too much raker and you are cutting real dead wood and it can get a little hairy bouncing and the cutting loses efficiency.

spartek

Just letting everyone know, that the new Oregon grinder is the "CATS ASS".After about four chains, I am somewhat of a pro now. Definately beats hand filing, with or without gauges,HANDS DOWN. I highly recommend the grinder. You can hand file all you want, but at some point you have to have some point of reference to compare all cutters to, so as to keep uniformity amongst all the links. And the grinder does just that, its like starting over with a brand new chain

treevet

Had this one for over 30 years and still like to do the cutters by hand if not dinged up too bad.

Can we see a pict of it Spartek? Have you got it on a bench or a stand?

Attached Thumbnails

 

spartek

My grinder got bolted to the table of my radial arm saw, cause I was in a hurry to use it. I'll think I'll keep it there cause it works good sitting in a chair. I will try to post pic

Eric Frei

I got an Oregon bench grinder ... the bloody spring in it is broken so I got an octopus strap on the handle to a beam in the shed roof.

Rarely use it though but I grind up some wicked chains when I do. The secret to not overheating is ... dress the wheel a lot, get the metal out of the stone, take small bites and go around a few times if need be.

I do like the consistency it gives and it is very sharp, great for cleaning out the gullet too.

I file a lot though these days, too lazy to take the chain off the saw I suppose, just do it in the field and motor on.

__________________

Bruce Hopf

I found one of the Very Key Things while using the Bench Grinder, is to have a Clean Chain. I now always Soak my Chains in Oven Cleaner, over Night. I throw them into a Tub of Hot Soapy Water, then I stretch them out on a Board with one Nail, and I use a Brush for the Grill for a BBQ, and I scrub them down, both Sides.
I then race them off in another Tub of Clean Hot Water, and I hang them up to dry.
I find by doing this, it saves you a lot of work Dressing the Wheel, because of the Oil, and Gunk, that is on the Chain. I've been doing this since the fall, and I haven't had to dress the Wheel. After I sharpen them, I toss them into a Tub of Bar Oil, and let them soak for about an hour or two, and I hang them up, till I need to use then again. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

JohN Dee

You know we used to use the oregon grinder all the time.. I wrote it off when we discovered the world of files...

I can get a chain back to like brand new within 10 mins (25" bar) of concentrated time in a vice with a file guide/depth gauge, ~20-30mins if I have to get all the cutters to the same length.

Thanks to Treevet I can now point out another pro of a grinder, which is all cutters come out equal, which equals great cutting quality! I still won't go back to using the grinder as files are damn well more convenient in the field, but when anyone comes asking what is so good about them, I can point out that new pro I just realised.

You know what would be great, if they made a grinder that clamped onto the bar instead of having to take off the chain and put it on the grinder guide.. Wouldn't be too complicated and someone like Oregon could do it very easily...

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

Red : Green : Blue

treevet

I agree, maybe a rig of sometype for the Dremel.

Bruce Hopf

Have a look at this outfit. Special Machine . I got one in a bunch of Chain Saw stuff I got for a guy on eBay. I never tried to use it yet, but it looks like it can do a pretty good Job of sharpening a Chain.
You can use it with a Cordless Drill, or a Dremel Grinder. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

treevet

Looks to have some promise. Us tree guys hate to take the bar off if we can avoid it.

Do a Tree World exclusive trial and give us a report on it Bruce.

Bruce Hopf

I'll see if I can make a Video of the Outfit in Operation, once I figure out the Camera, and the Outfit, and Post it. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Bruce Hopf

I gave this out fit a Try, with my Cordless Drill. The only Problem that I could find with it, is Slightly Flimsy, but not too Bad.
I couldn't really get it to do a good job, because all my Chains are ground with the Bench Grinder, and the Cutters are not that Round, for the Grinding Wheel to fit in Right.
I feel if I was sharpening a Chain, that I was sharpening with a File, it would work good. The Angles are set for 30 Degrees, so that part is good. For use with the Collar for the Grinding Wheel, Cordless Drill, or Dremel Tool, it is recommended to use some type of Lubrication, to stop from Premature Wear. It also has a Collar, that you can use with a File.
Personally if I was to Rate this Tool, out of 1 to 10, I would give it a 7 or an 8, compared with the Bench Grinder, that I use. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Tree Machine

Of all the pros and cons of grinders vs filing, and there are many, there was one negative that I found compelling. I've never heard it expressed, and there is no real scientific evidence one way or the other and the issue is essentially invisible.

This was years and years ago when I was trying out carbide coated chain. I found it would take my files out in a few strokes. This is not the negative part, I should have expected that, duh. I went to the carbide thinking I wouldn't have to sharpen chains anymore. Another duh. I had 15 or 20 chains on the wall, just looking for a better way. At least I get credit for trying.

With these carbide-coated chains, and a a rack of dull regular ones, going to a grinder made sense.

Tree Machine

I went in halvsies with another arborist and we bought a good grinder, the model by Stihl. I went to town on my chains and got the same results all of you would get; not quite the sharpness I could get by hand, but close. The biggest benefit I personally found was akin to what treevet mentioned, and that positive to me was not having to take a sharp chain off a chainsaw to put a dull chain back on it.

But the negatives stacked up, regardless of carbide coated or regular chain. #1 became what treevet also said,You can fiddle with the depth and take less off, but grinders eat chain pretty quickly. Having them less sharp than hand-filing cost me time and patience in the field, all in all, I was having to take a step down in effectiveness.

I tried touching up the stone-ground chains with hand file, just to get it to the sharpness level that is utter joy. But as was pointed out, the temper of the steel changes. The wheel heats the tooth very quickly, though very briefly. This hot edge cools very quickly. This is how steel is hardened; heat it up, then cool it very rapidly. The cutting edge was now as hard or harder than the steel in the hand file. As well, tiny micro-particles of stone embed in the tooth's gullet. These two factors make it so you essentially can't use a hand file to touch up a machine-ground chain as you will trash your files in short order. Common knowledge with experienced sawyers, but this was a looooong time ago for me, back before I knew crap about anything. Back before these forums existed when we'd have to stumble through the experience to achieve the goal, rather than read a thread and take the advice of the seasoned pros.

(I thank you all so very much for this.)

But this was still not the negative of what I am getting at. The real deal-breaker was one morning, early, I was grinding away, my safety goggles coated with grit, the black line of stone/steel particles building up on the back wall, a ray of sunlight light piercing through the window and coming across in front of me. I saw all these particles suspended in the air, a real 'wow' moment. Like, "Wow, I'm breathing this crap into my lungs, and though I don't like to make assumptions, this can not be a good thing."

There are plenty of health hazards already present in our industry. All factors combined, I went back to hand-filing, and set out to find a way to make the hand-filing process easier and more effective.

KevinE

does anyone else have one those cheap generic Chinese electric chain grinders? I was given one that I use on the polesaw chains & the wheel has worn out on one side. I tried flipping it over, but now I can't get the spindle to stop spinning while i'm doing the retaining nut up, so I can't tighten it back up! There isn't any hole in it to put a driver in like there is on an angle grinder. Any ideas! Throw it away & get another one? They're about $60 at Bunnings.