Rigguy Wirestop fasteners for cable

treevet · 24th February 2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

And then it there's always the weather event that could blow out whatever system is installed. That is regardless of whether we're talking about strength of materials, or degree of invasiveness/tree response

All true, Treevet. I totally respect experience in the Arborist on this one. You have probably hundreds more installs, and I'm fairly certain you have dissected trees from both your own cable systems and the operable or defunct cables of Arborists past. If you're like me, you take the opportunity to split the wood at the site of install, and keeping the CODIT model in mind, inspect and look at the affected site, look, touch, smell, whatever for clues the tree might offer as to that site-specific decay profile. Take in the clues the tree has to offer, attempt to better understand, and then get ya azz back to work.

I cable trees ONLY to preserve them. If the tree wasn't offering me a bleak picture of its likely future, I wouldn't consider it. I don't really enjoy cabling, it takes an entirely other set of tools than regular treecare, cabling is WORK, no matter how you cut it, only made easier by not having to climb (bucket).

I do, however, actively pursue trying to save savable trees by stabilizing the questionable fork.

If I thought the life was only ten years I would have to reconsider how I currently do things. I am here to learn.

We are obviously on the same page on everything.

Nobody has ever purchased an exotic cruise on profits made through cabling.

I know you are a highly experienced and information seeking arborist.

At the top of your post you mentioned an extreme weather event nullifying any efforts we have put forth. Couple of years ago the largest burr oak in Ohio, my client's tree and just down the block from me was struck with a violent downshear wind event. It snapped the cable installed previous to me being involved. I wanted to replace the entire system before this happened but HO could not see spending twice no matter what I said.

It deposited a branch that a 20 ton crane situated right next to the house, could not budge and blew dark ominous black smoke. It crushed the entire south side of the structure and it had to be rebuilt.

We brought in some larger equipment and upon clearing the leader, I found 2 other huge leaders (3 foot dia, over 100 foot lgth......tree was 130 feet in ht. overall) that had major splits in crotches that leaned over the house.

Risking my life and having quoted 10, 000 $ bcs of the danger involved I cut back the entire 500 year old tree (increment boring-not mine) approx 33 percent, and it has done quite well despite the injustice and the client is happy. I also installed a real nice rope swing and I think this softened the huge expense a little. Their kids love it and the tree.

Point being, as you suggested, no system would have altered this destiny, but maybe the ass would be covered bcs of extreme circumstances.

treeseer · 24th February 2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

I wanted to replace the entire system

vet, it's a rare case when I see the old cable doing more harm than good. Usually I look to add one above, and leave the old one below. I hope you comment on ansi when it rolls around again in 2010.

Today I'm going to cambistat 2 old oaks; no pruning on them this year.

re depth of wound with wirestops vs width of wound with lags, hmmm...

treevet · 24th February 2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

vet, it's a rare case when I see the old cable doing more harm than good. Usually I look to add one above, and leave the old one below. I hope you comment on ansi when it rolls around again in 2010.

Today I'm going to cambistat 2 old oaks; no pruning on them this year.

re depth of wound with wirestops vs width of wound with lags, hmmm...

The one instance I see old cable instigating, that would be worse than none at all would be where a gaping co dom had been drawn up to closure, neglected for many years (not identified for life span) and failure of cable occurred. This would go beyond the original untreated state into an episode of "throwing" the leader, and the ensuing inertia/momentum could cause the catastrophe that was attempted to be prevented.

Usually a screw rod would be a back up/lateral stabilizer to this installation but this could fail also with such a force.

Ekka · 27th February 2008, 03:54 AM

How come you guys like cable (static) over dynamic systems?

I'm thinking there's a reason other than looks or price.

treevet · 27th February 2008, 06:16 AM

To "sort of" support a co dom that has been identified as a candidate for failure doesn t compute in my little birdbrain. Perhaps you could give some insight as to why you would install a rubberband when you could more certainly limit movement with wire. I do not cinch them up, but allow a little movement.

I know it is nice to allow a little sway for aesthetics, or ?, but we have some unbelievable weather extremes here (ice storms, big blows from odd angles, etc.) and you d have egg on your face with you and HO standing next to huge limb laying on kitchen floor with bungee attached to it they paid for and you recommended.

treevet · 27th February 2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treevet

To "sort of" support a co dom that has been identified as a candidate for failure doesn t compute in my little birdbrain. Perhaps you could give some insight as to why you would install a rubberband when you could more certainly limit movement with wire. I do not cinch them up, but allow a little movement.

I know it is nice to allow a little sway for aesthetics, or ?, but we have some unbelievable weather extremes here (ice storms, big blows from odd angles, etc.) and you d have egg on your face with you and HO standing next to huge limb laying on kitchen floor with bungee attached to it they paid for and you recommended.

I am not how the tone of above sounded. It is not some kind of a challenge. I am really interested in knowing what I should about this system. I can see it with some situations were targets are lacking or the failure threat is marginal.

Tree Machine · 27th February 2008, 06:48 AM

To sum up treevet's statement,
When you're dealing with the huge tonnages aloft, and the ferocity and forces that mother nature can throw at you......

Ice storms can be wicked. Treevet got an early, wet October snow a few years ago before the trees had shed their leaves, I remember, it walloped you.

We get tornados. My place is reknowned in the Spring with storms that produce downdrafts, just a fierce, vertical downward punch from out of the sky.

Treevet and I live in a setion of the US called the central hardwood belt, it has been here since the beginning of time, and so has been the wildlife.

Squirrels here have been around forever and are rodents and chew whatwever they find novel to chew on. Around here they like electric line insulation, for some reason, and maple and hackberry.

I set a temporary 'cable' fashioned out of 11,000 lb tensile stable braid. Within one month they had chewed completely through it, not just chewed at it. It was severed.

They're like that. Here's a shot from yesterday's pile of brush about to be chipped (although off-topic, slightly). Thes furry buggers are a real and true threat to dynamic systems, and I imagine wherever there are squirrels there would be that possibility. If you have a large stem on the house, the client doesn't care if it was weather, squirrels, your bad splice, ultraviolet radiation.

If the system you install fails, it could come back to haunt you. In fact, it will almost certainly come back to haunt you.

newguy18 · 27th February 2008, 08:38 AM

I remember when i lived in akron a squirrel got inside a transformer by my grandma's house and the whole meighborhood was without power for about 3 hours.Those squirrels up there are a menace.

treevet · 28th February 2008, 06:00 PM

[quote=Tree Machine;23583]

Ice storms can be wicked. Treevet got an early, wet October snow a few years ago before the trees had shed their leaves, I remember, it walloped you.

Right, TM, but last year in Feb we got hit with a major ice storm, 1 of 3 I ve been involved in my 38 years of tree service. It gave us 3 months of non stop storm damage 6 days a week. The first day I was out clearing driveways so people could could go to work and it was like a war zone (been there too) as big snaps, cracks and wooshes and huge crashes as limbs rained all around you.

You d have to go in and get out as fast as possible. It was extremely profitable but way dangerous, too.

A cable story out of this. HO Calls and a whole side of a tree was on her house. Showed up and you could see the dark wood in the split that meant it had been split for a while and cable would have corrected the problem.

It was in the teens and limb was lying on 4 inches of snow and other end was still attached to stem about 40 feet in air. It was behind house in deck and unreachable with my picker and/or crane. Big problem was tree was encased in ice about 3 to 4" thick. No climbing from ground was happening. Decided to leave until ice melted.

We waited a few days then ice started melting. Problem was ice was still thick on tree and weight of limb, melting snow and damage from impact was allowing water to just pour inside the house in torrents.

Got a 120-ft sub crane, and it was cool. He couldn t boom me over tree and down to crotch as canopy was in way. I hooked up to ball and he aimed it at crotch I wanted in and he kind of injected me in the canopy of the tree. I never dropped more than 2 feet below the shiv and he boomed out the full extent while feeding cable and put me right on the limb ready to tie in and then disconnect lanyard from ball. What a magician! I tied in, and yes, I was wearing spikes in a live tree, but these were extraordinary circumstances. The melting snow was flooding the house and things were being destroyed. Besides, ice was so thick, I was barely entering the wood with spikes.

Anyway, I tied in, slid down, hooked a choker, he tensioned, I cut leader off, and sat back and watched him boom entire lead in air as I was worried it would break loose and crush me. Big buck$ on that job

Big fun, too.

treeseer · 28th February 2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

11,000 lb tensile stable braid. Within one month they had chewed completely through it, not just chewed at it. It was severed. .

you gotta tell that one to andy detter, the guy who wrote the german standard that is based on dynamic. he said there was only one case in the workd reported.

you are sure it was skwerl?

Tree Machine · 29th February 2008, 05:01 AM

Great story, Treevet.

I remember that ice storm.

Me and Treevet are west-to-east of each other about 300 K, but almost on the same latitude, TV is south a bit of TM.

We see these ice storms coming from the west. Treevet's storm had me freaked out. Ice storms are fairly rare events, but when all the conditions line up, they can be really bad. Treevet's was a whopper. It missed me, the northern edge being 50 K south of here (WHew!)

We haven't had a decent ice storm in 12 years here, which means the trees have grown to proportions, unbridled by any major natural forces. Lots and lots and lots of trees with overextended leads, full, lengthy stems, elm trees so dense with peripheral canopy.... When an ice storm hits here, like Treevet says, it will be a warzone.

For now, I try to identify trees that are at risk of splitting and install a cable. A lot of times the tree will really tell you whether or not it's predisposed. Sometimes it's just plain obvious, numbers of clues the tree can give, all stirred and poured into a glass. This is our cabling solution..

treevet · 29th February 2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Great story, Treevet.

I remember that ice storm.

Me and Treevet are west-to-east of each other about 300 K, but almost on the same latitude, TV is south a bit of TM.

We see these ice storms coming from the west. Treevet's storm had me freaked out. Ice storms are fairly rare events, but when all the conditions line up, they can be really bad. Treevet's was a whopper. It missed me, the northern edge being 50 K south of here (WHew!)

We haven't had a decent ice storm in 12 years here, which means the trees have grown to proportions, unbridled by any major natural forces. Lots and lots and lots of trees with overextended leads, full, lengthy stems, elm trees so dense with peripheral canopy.... When an ice storm hits here, like Treevet says, it will be a warzone.

For now, I try to identify trees that are at risk of splitting and install a cable. A lot of times the tree will really tell you whether or not it's predisposed. Sometimes it's just plain obvious, numbers of clues the tree can give, all stirred and poured into a glass. This is our cabling solution..

Yeah TM, those ice storms do correct Mother Nature"s (God"s IMO) intended structure with wild abandon. Trees were meant to grow in an excurrent form in the woods (except for edge trees I guess). But if they all grew in the woods and in that structure, who would need an Abhorist (

).

Looks like you and me ain t getting much done today TM. Snow and rain most of day. I bought my Hi Ranger at Altec in Indy. What a great town! Couldn t win the Super Bowl again this year, tho. What s up with that.

Tree Machine · 29th February 2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

you gotta tell that one to andy detter, the guy who wrote the german standard that is based on dynamic. he said there was only one case in the world reported.

you are sure it was skwerl?

Either that, or a rat and we really don't see much of them in our hardwoods. Raccoons don't gnaw, but we have a lot of those, too. They find material for their nests, though.

I don't have pics of where squirrels have chewed the insulation on utility lines, but here's a couple pics of yesterday's cleanup. The Arborists who did the work said they've never seen anything like it. I said, "Hang around awhile."

I doubt this rodent behavior is isolated. Rodents gnaw, it is what defines their species, this, sentence #1 taken from Wikipedia (see Rodentia)

Rodentia is an order of mammals also known as rodents, characterised by two continuously-growing incisors in the upper and lower jaws which must be kept short by gnawing.

My thought is the furry buggers used my high molecular weight polyethylene as bedding for their young ones.

Tree Machine · 29th February 2008, 05:27 AM

27th February 2008, 03:54 AM	#29 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,527	Re: Wirestop fasteners for cable How come you guys like cable (static) over dynamic systems? I'm thinking there's a reason other than looks or price. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

27th February 2008, 06:16 AM	#30 (permalink)
treevet Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 1,123	Re: Wirestop fasteners for cable To "sort of" support a co dom that has been identified as a candidate for failure doesn t compute in my little birdbrain. Perhaps you could give some insight as to why you would install a rubberband when you could more certainly limit movement with wire. I do not cinch them up, but allow a little movement. I know it is nice to allow a little sway for aesthetics, or ?, but we have some unbelievable weather extremes here (ice storms, big blows from odd angles, etc.) and you d have egg on your face with you and HO standing next to huge limb laying on kitchen floor with bungee attached to it they paid for and you recommended.

27th February 2008, 08:38 AM	#33 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,790	Re: Wirestop fasteners for cable I remember when i lived in akron a squirrel got inside a transformer by my grandma's house and the whole meighborhood was without power for about 3 hours.Those squirrels up there are a menace. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

28th February 2008, 06:00 PM	#34 (permalink)
treevet Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 1,123	Re: Violent weather, tornado belt [quote=Tree Machine;23583] Ice storms can be wicked. Treevet got an early, wet October snow a few years ago before the trees had shed their leaves, I remember, it walloped you. Right, TM, but last year in Feb we got hit with a major ice storm, 1 of 3 I ve been involved in my 38 years of tree service. It gave us 3 months of non stop storm damage 6 days a week. The first day I was out clearing driveways so people could could go to work and it was like a war zone (been there too) as big snaps, cracks and wooshes and huge crashes as limbs rained all around you. You d have to go in and get out as fast as possible. It was extremely profitable but way dangerous, too. A cable story out of this. HO Calls and a whole side of a tree was on her house. Showed up and you could see the dark wood in the split that meant it had been split for a while and cable would have corrected the problem. It was in the teens and limb was lying on 4 inches of snow and other end was still attached to stem about 40 feet in air. It was behind house in deck and unreachable with my picker and/or crane. Big problem was tree was encased in ice about 3 to 4" thick. No climbing from ground was happening. Decided to leave until ice melted. We waited a few days then ice started melting. Problem was ice was still thick on tree and weight of limb, melting snow and damage from impact was allowing water to just pour inside the house in torrents. Got a 120-ft sub crane, and it was cool. He couldn t boom me over tree and down to crotch as canopy was in way. I hooked up to ball and he aimed it at crotch I wanted in and he kind of injected me in the canopy of the tree. I never dropped more than 2 feet below the shiv and he boomed out the full extent while feeding cable and put me right on the limb ready to tie in and then disconnect lanyard from ball. What a magician! I tied in, and yes, I was wearing spikes in a live tree, but these were extraordinary circumstances. The melting snow was flooding the house and things were being destroyed. Besides, ice was so thick, I was barely entering the wood with spikes. Anyway, I tied in, slid down, hooked a choker, he tensioned, I cut leader off, and sat back and watched him boom entire lead in air as I was worried it would break loose and crush me. Big buck$ on that job Big fun, too.

29th February 2008, 05:01 AM	#36 (permalink)
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 569	Great story, Treevet. I remember that ice storm. Me and Treevet are west-to-east of each other about 300 K, but almost on the same latitude, TV is south a bit of TM. We see these ice storms coming from the west. Treevet's storm had me freaked out. Ice storms are fairly rare events, but when all the conditions line up, they can be really bad. Treevet's was a whopper. It missed me, the northern edge being 50 K south of here (WHew!) We haven't had a decent ice storm in 12 years here, which means the trees have grown to proportions, unbridled by any major natural forces. Lots and lots and lots of trees with overextended leads, full, lengthy stems, elm trees so dense with peripheral canopy.... When an ice storm hits here, like Treevet says, it will be a warzone. For now, I try to identify trees that are at risk of splitting and install a cable. A lot of times the tree will really tell you whether or not it's predisposed. Sometimes it's just plain obvious, numbers of clues the tree can give, all stirred and poured into a glass. This is our cabling solution..