UK Arborists| Tree ambiguity| Swansea’s new Welsh-medium school, at West Cross Lane

swansea

As a further update ONE of the reports that was put to councillors in this week's meeting is available here.
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/media/pdf/..._JUNE_2008.pdf
It is a page of over 200 pages long on a lot of things to do with planning permissions BUT the monkey puzzle tree is on page 122 and may be found by searching the PDF for the word "monkey"


There is another report written by the Education Dept that contains the references to Hand grenades. If you want to see that send a personal message.

Eric Frei

Interesting, they trenched 2m away tearing 1.5cm dia roots.

If the tree was approved for removal then usually you do that first rather than make a hazard.

If the tree were being retained then why the breach of RPA? And if that breach of RPA means felling the tree now who gets the fine?

I'm just wondering. Going by The independent Safety Audit and Risk Assessment undertaken by Alarp Safety;

We better close down our parks, seek out any Monkey Puzzles in public places and fell them all!

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Sean Freeman

I'm assuming that the community group has contacted the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) and discussed with them what the assessable risks from this tree are and how best to sensibly manage them. Get Swansea to sign up to sensible risk http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/signup.htm...if you haven't already tried!

HSE Principle of sensible risk management (Accessed 6/2008)

There is always subjectivity in any assessment however benchmarks do exist, and the HSE is the major actor in OH&S in the UK, their own bench mark is the limit of acceptable risk;
HSE 1996

None of whta I have read about the so called risks associated with this tree stand up to the slightest of examinations.

This of course doesn't mean I think the tree won't be removed...more ridiculous things have happened here and in the UK.

Bermy

In relation to this case the latest Arboriculture and Urban Forestry ( the Scientific Journal of the International Society of Arboriculture) , has an absolutely EXCELLENT article that addresses trees and nature as social elements. 2008 34(3):152-156

Many times developers, Governments, councils completely underestimate the social and historical value of trees and how deeply those in the community identify with them and have, perhaps without completely realizing it, incorporated those trees or features into their sense of self and identity and personal history.

The title is "The Importance of Trees and Nature in Community: A Review of the Relevant Literature" by William Elmendorf.

To quote some excerpts from page 153:

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...the natural environment plays a significant role inthe healthy and successful social lives of people by providing shared and structured symbols. These symbols (e.g. historical buildings and landscapes, monuments, trees, hills) help ground people in their everyday lives, and as change occurs, they provide residents with a consistent sense of place and comfort (Appleyard 1979; Hester 1990). Trees and landscapes can be shared and structured symbols, caring and supportive symbols that become part of the identity and features of a place that invoke pride, attract outside attention and stimulate economic activity (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency 2002). Alexander et al. (1977) pointed out:

Trees have a very deep and crucial meaning to human beings. THe significance of old trees is archetypical: in our dreams they often stand for the wholeness of personality. The trees people love create special places; places to be in and places to pass through. Trees have the potential to create various kinds of social places (p. 798)

Trees, parks, and other components of the natural environment become powerful social symbols when they are percieved as being part and representative of a social group (such as a neighborhood) .....

Nature again proves important because the sense of self in place is more important than simply a sense of place, and people's relationship with their natural environment can help build a stronger connection to their place...

Trees and other natural features help to create and maintain a sense of place; that is a feeling of identification and belonging that is important to people's enjoyment and well being and to the process of community.

Very strong emotional ties can exist between people and elements of natural settings such as trees (Dwyer etal. 1991, 1992). Greider and Garkovich (1994) argued that landscapes can be "the symbolic representation of a collective local history and the essence of a collective self-definition. Social meaning and intention can heighten in cases of environmental conflict or opportunity, and inversely, environmental conflict and opportunity occurs in cases in which social meaning is especially critical (Appleyard 1979). Greider and Garkovich (1994) discussed the social connection between people and their natural environment:

...That what is important in any consideratin of environmental change is the meaning of the change for those cultural groups that have incorporated that aspect of the physical environment into their definition of temselves (p 21).

Taken together, these values of trees and nature support the capacity of community to develop and the process of community. They illustrate the important connections between people and nature even in highly urbanized places and their value in community development strategies.

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Good luck to you all in Swansea, I sincerely hope you prevail in saving the tree!

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Keep smiling, people will wonder what you are up to! (especially if you're gunning a chainsaw!)

swansea

Hi again folks,

Just an update on the tree. No decision has been made yet. The council decision has been deferred until a meeting in a few weeks time.

In the meantime if anyone us interested there is more on the website
West Cross Heritage: Home Page

Eric Frei

Heads up UK citizens and ex-pats, you can sign an online petition.

Petition to: stop the Swansea Council from felling the 150 year old Monkey Puzzle Tree.

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swansea

Hi Folks,
The saga of our Monkey Puzzle tree has taken a step towards its end. After new reports from the Residents' Group the councillors took a vote and the planning committee to reject the application by the council's education department to cut down the tree. It was rejected by 19 votes to 1 with 2 abstentions.

There is a newspaper report on this link. There application does still. however, have to go before a full council meeting.
this is swansea - news, entertainment, jobs, homes and cars

Garry Brockley

Lets hope the application to fell it is rejected and sets a pressident for felling comunity trees in UK. good luck swansea.

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Eric Frei

Good work, congratulations, people power does work.

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swansea

Our tree is safe!. It came before the council today and we won . The application was turned down by about 33 to 0 with 2 abstentions.

Some of the councillors were really scathing about what they had been told by their officers.

Garry Brockley

Nice one swansea congratulations on a good fight and a great win

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swansea

Oh and I forgot to mention. The council does not normally place legal Tree Preservation Orders on their own trees. They are now looking to revise that policy and put an order on this tree.
The media stories are below.



Swansea's monkey puzzle tree is safe - officially!

BBC NEWS | Wales | South West Wales | Monkey puzzle tree avoids chop

Greenman UK

Swansea!!

If this case is still in dispute i would be happy to offer some advice and guidance!
Councils can be hard work and once they set a course its hard for them to change as they think it will make them look silly/stupid!
Yet another example of Tax money being spent in a productive, cost effective way to better the local people!
I like the fruit of this tree!! Most edible! Taste's as bit like Liche from China, almost like a white grape!
Would love to go to Chile and see forests of them!
Drop me an email if you need me to pick this case up for you!

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BSc (Hons) For, HND For, M.Arbor A. CEnv
Consultant Arboriculturist

Sean Freeman

Well done to all envolved great outcome

Eric Frei

Great news and I liked this comment from that news article.


The councillors (politicians) did their job, as elected representatives they listened and made amends.

Important to note here that where a bureaucracy runs rampant they are answerable to causes other than their own. Don't assume because some boffin from some department has a particular view that it is in stone. Of course the flip side is when a councillor or Mayor over rides an experts view and changes things like with the New Farm jacaranda's here .... a politician decided to to prevent the removal of trees and more fell ..........

........ knowing the difference is the art. For both cases it was the logical decision that won, not the emotional. It was logical that the Monkey Puzzle tree had to stay, logical that some Jacarandas had to be cut down.

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shaun05

Trouble is, the tree isn't 'hazardous' unless you're inside the fall zone of the cones. The question is, can the tree be isolated from pedestrians

How many people have you heard off dying or even being injured by a falling aracauria cone? the area doesn't need to be fenced off from the public allow them to enjoy the tree within arms reach. the ROH from a falling cone is well within the threshold.