Tree Lopping Design Project help???

Mick Anderson · 11th March 2008, 12:12 AM

Hi all...

I am a 4th year Industrial Design Student from the University of Technology, Sydney. For my Major work I have chosen to look into the OH & S issues in Tree Lopping. I have no idea about this industry except to say I have heard of many cases of various injuries caused from accidents on the job through a friend who works at a hospital.

I endeavour to observe and understand the job, learn from it, and ultimately design a new product to combat one specific problem area. Looking at anything from climbing trees/ using chainsaw / dealing with ropes/ alternative climbing devices/ harnesses, plus the many other aspects of the I know nothing about.

If you are posting on this forum I assume you work in the industry. If so it would be so greatly appreciated if you could email me and give me some direction on potential problems areas of the industry where a new product may overcome these troubles. Maybe you already have an idea for a product that would overcome an issue in the industry. Please let me know if you have time for a phone interview or email interview.

Michael.P.Anderson@student.uts.edu.au

Any help at all would be amazing.
Thanks alot.

Mick

Ekka · 11th March 2008, 01:56 AM

Straight off the bat here's a serious one where the rule makers are generally not the rule takers .... in other words do as I say regardless.

Country Energy NSW and perhaps other energy organisations around the place often need tree climbers to remove trees within the close approach distance of a power wires.

They mandate that the trees must be climbed spurless, that's for a removal not a prune as you do not spur living trees only removals. Now imagine trying to do that without having spurs on, imagine trying to use a large saw to block out wood. It's downright dangerous!

Their argument is that if you or the tree were energized your feet would get blown off. Generally the spurs are made from steel, alloy or carbon graphite. All capable of carrying voltage.

Now you need to do the research on the rules of these places ... then market research if there are any insulated spurs, which I doubt otherwise they'd be using them.

The shafts and pads could be made from some polymer that's non conductive and the actual spur that sticks in the tree from ceramic or bakelite etc. There cannot be any steel, screw etc. Velcro pads would solve the strap problem except the cinching clip cant be steel.

These would have to be tested and tagged according with OHS voltage safety limits as per the energy company rules, could be a global market.

Quintrex · 12th March 2008, 02:20 AM

Mick, a good place to start would be obtain the Workcover code of practice for the amenity tree industry, NSW, 1998. This document is currently under review.
Workcover NSW should be able to supply you with information and history of industrial accidents and incidents in this industry.
Steve

playfordtree · 12th March 2008, 04:56 AM

That's f*****g brilliant Quinny!

Mick, listen to Steve.
Do your research, find the most common tree industry accident.
Then, invent something that prevents that accident from happening so often!

With that sort of advice not only should you earn a Phd, but you might make a small fortune along the way!

Ace Master · 12th March 2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Straight off the bat here's a serious one where the rule makers are generally not the rule takers .... in other words do as I say regardless.

Country Energy NSW and perhaps other energy organisations around the place often need tree climbers to remove trees within the close approach distance of a power wires.

They mandate that the trees must be climbed spurless, that's for a removal not a prune as you do not spur living trees only removals. Now imagine trying to do that without having spurs on, imagine trying to use a large saw to block out wood. It's downright dangerous!

Their argument is that if you or the tree were energized your feet would get blown off. Generally the spurs are made from steel, alloy or carbon graphite. All capable of carrying voltage.

Now you need to do the research on the rules of these places ... then market research if there are any insulated spurs, which I doubt otherwise they'd be using them.

The shafts and pads could be made from some polymer that's non conductive and the actual spur that sticks in the tree from ceramic or bakelite etc. There cannot be any steel, screw etc. Velcro pads would solve the strap problem except the cinching clip cant be steel.

These would have to be tested and tagged according with OHS voltage safety limits as per the energy company rules, could be a global market.

Ekka
Who's making these stupid rules, what a load of shit, now i've heard it all, looks like i have to use the sky hook to climb on now

, what about the steel D rings,pole straps,chainsaws,bar,etc........

Live lineworkers can work on the live power lines just by wearing safety gloves

May be we can wear the gloves over our boots

i will look into this more Mick

desk jockys

playfordtree · 12th March 2008, 05:10 AM

Hey Ace,

make sure it's an insulated Skyhook!

Ekka · 12th March 2008, 10:58 PM

Ace, they pic on the spurs coz that would be the path if the tree or you were energized. The D's on your harness ... hmmm, unless they're touching the tree nope, not the same.

Playford, most accident are people unclipping and not checking their biners, not clicking in right, not tying the correct knots.

How many are "tree loppers" anyway? Just guys with a saw! Sure they can climb trees and cut them down but they have no idea of rigging forces, knots, OHS, ropes, SWL etc etc etc .... I know, I have hired enough of the fools.

How many fed themselves into a chipper? Pretty smart eh? Workcover claims will give you a distorted perspective, perhaps if they regulated and licenced the industry we wouldn't have so many idiots in it.

Quintrex · 13th March 2008, 02:25 AM

ErgonEnergy in Qld also calls for climbing with a prussik or similar. Metal ascending devices are not to be used for the same reason, ie; conductivity.
As in many things, the people who make the rules have never done the work!

Mick Anderson · 16th March 2008, 06:15 AM

Hey Gents,
Thanks for your input... i've had to do some reading on general terms, like spurs and prussiks, i'm getting there.
Thanks for the work cover suggestion, i'll be sure to do some reading on the laws around power lines, that seems to be a common area of probelm within the industry.

Thanks for your suggestions...
Please keep posting anything that may come to you on the job, i'll keep checking back on this topic over the next few months, and i'll keep you all up to date with my findings and get your opinions on things..

Cheers

Mick

Treelore · 16th March 2008, 09:53 AM

If who regulated and licensed it ekka???

Ekka · 16th March 2008, 03:39 PM

In Qld BSA under State Legislation enforces the building trades.

They could accommodate us however there's no legislation requiring them to.

I have talked to hundreds of whining plumbers, carpenters, electricians, fencers etc about the BSA, they whine coz they see BSA as a money grab, some $600 a year.

I then say can I just buy some rollers and brushes and start painting?

Can I just start building fences?

What happens if a non ticketed tiler starts undercutting you?

Can you report illegitimate advertisers and operators?

Then they realise how much better they have than us coz we have nothing like that.

I also worked for a BSA field officer who handed fines out and busted illegal operators, he said (from memory) first offence is $750 second is $3250 and I don't remember what happens after that but yeah ... they're serious.

Also contractors using the BSA approved quotes/conditions system have legal back if they've gone by the book and don't get paid. They also have enforced payment terms regardless of disputes. The bill for services must be paid and if there's a dispute over damage/quality of work etc that is a separate issue to be resolved.

So from our perspective the system is there and workable, don't have to reinvent the wheel here. The system needs to fund itself and have legal rights ... BSA does all that.

11th March 2008, 12:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mick Anderson Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 3	Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Hi all... I am a 4th year Industrial Design Student from the University of Technology, Sydney. For my Major work I have chosen to look into the OH & S issues in Tree Lopping. I have no idea about this industry except to say I have heard of many cases of various injuries caused from accidents on the job through a friend who works at a hospital. I endeavour to observe and understand the job, learn from it, and ultimately design a new product to combat one specific problem area. Looking at anything from climbing trees/ using chainsaw / dealing with ropes/ alternative climbing devices/ harnesses, plus the many other aspects of the I know nothing about. If you are posting on this forum I assume you work in the industry. If so it would be so greatly appreciated if you could email me and give me some direction on potential problems areas of the industry where a new product may overcome these troubles. Maybe you already have an idea for a product that would overcome an issue in the industry. Please let me know if you have time for a phone interview or email interview. Michael.P.Anderson@student.uts.edu.au Any help at all would be amazing. Thanks alot. Mick

11th March 2008, 01:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,664	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Straight off the bat here's a serious one where the rule makers are generally not the rule takers .... in other words do as I say regardless. Country Energy NSW and perhaps other energy organisations around the place often need tree climbers to remove trees within the close approach distance of a power wires. They mandate that the trees must be climbed spurless, that's for a removal not a prune as you do not spur living trees only removals. Now imagine trying to do that without having spurs on, imagine trying to use a large saw to block out wood. It's downright dangerous! Their argument is that if you or the tree were energized your feet would get blown off. Generally the spurs are made from steel, alloy or carbon graphite. All capable of carrying voltage. Now you need to do the research on the rules of these places ... then market research if there are any insulated spurs, which I doubt otherwise they'd be using them. The shafts and pads could be made from some polymer that's non conductive and the actual spur that sticks in the tree from ceramic or bakelite etc. There cannot be any steel, screw etc. Velcro pads would solve the strap problem except the cinching clip cant be steel. These would have to be tested and tagged according with OHS voltage safety limits as per the energy company rules, could be a global market. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th March 2008, 02:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Quintrex Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 414	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Mick, a good place to start would be obtain the Workcover code of practice for the amenity tree industry, NSW, 1998. This document is currently under review. Workcover NSW should be able to supply you with information and history of industrial accidents and incidents in this industry. Steve __________________ Heightmaster

12th March 2008, 04:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
playfordtree Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? That's f*****g brilliant Quinny! Mick, listen to Steve. Do your research, find the most common tree industry accident. Then, invent something that prevents that accident from happening so often! With that sort of advice not only should you earn a Phd, but you might make a small fortune along the way! __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

12th March 2008, 05:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
playfordtree Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Hey Ace, make sure it's an insulated Skyhook! __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

12th March 2008, 10:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,664	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Ace, they pic on the spurs coz that would be the path if the tree or you were energized. The D's on your harness ... hmmm, unless they're touching the tree nope, not the same. Playford, most accident are people unclipping and not checking their biners, not clicking in right, not tying the correct knots. How many are "tree loppers" anyway? Just guys with a saw! Sure they can climb trees and cut them down but they have no idea of rigging forces, knots, OHS, ropes, SWL etc etc etc .... I know, I have hired enough of the fools. How many fed themselves into a chipper? Pretty smart eh? Workcover claims will give you a distorted perspective, perhaps if they regulated and licenced the industry we wouldn't have so many idiots in it. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

13th March 2008, 02:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
Quintrex Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 414	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? ErgonEnergy in Qld also calls for climbing with a prussik or similar. Metal ascending devices are not to be used for the same reason, ie; conductivity. As in many things, the people who make the rules have never done the work! __________________ Heightmaster

16th March 2008, 06:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mick Anderson Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 3	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? Hey Gents, Thanks for your input... i've had to do some reading on general terms, like spurs and prussiks, i'm getting there. Thanks for the work cover suggestion, i'll be sure to do some reading on the laws around power lines, that seems to be a common area of probelm within the industry. Thanks for your suggestions... Please keep posting anything that may come to you on the job, i'll keep checking back on this topic over the next few months, and i'll keep you all up to date with my findings and get your opinions on things.. Cheers Mick

16th March 2008, 09:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 117	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? If who regulated and licensed it ekka???

16th March 2008, 03:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,664	Re: Tree Lopping Design Project help??? In Qld BSA under State Legislation enforces the building trades. They could accommodate us however there's no legislation requiring them to. I have talked to hundreds of whining plumbers, carpenters, electricians, fencers etc about the BSA, they whine coz they see BSA as a money grab, some $600 a year. I then say can I just buy some rollers and brushes and start painting? Can I just start building fences? What happens if a non ticketed tiler starts undercutting you? Can you report illegitimate advertisers and operators? Then they realise how much better they have than us coz we have nothing like that. I also worked for a BSA field officer who handed fines out and busted illegal operators, he said (from memory) first offence is $750 second is $3250 and I don't remember what happens after that but yeah ... they're serious. Also contractors using the BSA approved quotes/conditions system have legal back if they've gone by the book and don't get paid. They also have enforced payment terms regardless of disputes. The bill for services must be paid and if there's a dispute over damage/quality of work etc that is a separate issue to be resolved. So from our perspective the system is there and workable, don't have to reinvent the wheel here. The system needs to fund itself and have legal rights ... BSA does all that. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

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