Record $118,000 fine for tree clearing

Eric Frei

Record fine for illegal tree clearing - News

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Garry Brockley

you see this is exactly the type of person that should be harrassed by the mob, i dont think his fine was high enough for that amount of destruction.

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Josh Wrigley

Well said Sir!

Tony Knight

Depending on what he was/is going to use the land for $150,000 odd (including costs) might be just a drop in the ocean. I witnessed the "overnight" clearing of a block on the red dirt by a large stock nursery a number of years ago and they to were fined what was considerable sum, which they easliy recovered in the first quarter with sales from the cleared block. . Pure economics and what seems to be consider as risk over reward in some business's today.

Cheers

Tony

Jeff Darby

To true Tony, some of these fines appear to large but in the grand scheme of things there no more than a mere speeding ticket...

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George Valentine

I totally agree, and so do they after all, in between the fine after the "bush" is cleared and the read tape they would get to go through to follow the rules, with a 90% probability that, they are not going the be allowed to clear what they want if any at all, the land value and therefore the profitability from stocking such a large area, the fines imposed are a well worth investment and after they get the job done, is to damn late to get it back so, is a win/win situation for them.

I have witness the clearing of 24.000 acres out of 61.000 of the total area of this property in central Queensland, in fact, only a few hundred miles from where this place is...! I only wish that I knew then what I know now, and I would have had thousands of tonnes of some of the best Aussie woods growing in the Outback, very large trees many, may years old...! out of there before they starting burning if all of, all where they fall

I could have made a lot of money as many of the species destroyed where species such as Sandalwood, Ironbark, and many other protected or semi protected wood species. Watching the 2 D10's and that gigantic chain being dragged, is something that I will never forget...!

The fires after, burnt for weeks and no one done anything about it. The place was so remote/out of the way that no signs were visible form either the highway 60km away and or from the closest town, 50km North of it. The smoke went South and the nearest town that way was about 100km away.

The stuff I saw the land owners get away in regards to land clearing in that area, was mind bothering indeed...!

Cheers
George

colinjely

Surely the point is that if the Crown wanted those trees, they should have, under Sect 51 of the Constitution, paid for them? Tree clearing costs money and no-one will clear more land than they can profitably use.

Surely education is better than regulation?

If the government tried to dictate to those of us in suburbia what we could and couldn't do in our backyards, their would be blood in the streets!

Mark Noy

Holy sh#$, Thats alot of land to clear. And only $118k?
Iv valued solitary trees to be more than that, and they wernt even natives.
Thats quite pathetic really, that amount. A Score of cattle could pull quite close to that amount if not a little more if the cattle are in good condition.
( I have had in the past cattle on my land )

Id be curious as to why he cleared so much of the land, Theres not much you can really do with that size of land. Unless hes sub-dividing ? or something along those lines, or building a run way
or just an insanely cool 4wd track. Either way.

Apocalypsse

1800 hectares and only $118k fine, it just makes me feel empty on the inside. You could build a city with that much land.

KevinE

They do tell us what we can't do in suburban backyards Colin! Just think significant trees! I've lost count of the number of extremely angry people that I've had to advise that they are unable to prune/remove a tree they've planted themselves without obtaining almost impossible to get approval from their local government.

George Valentine

And that in my view KevinE, is ones of the most insensible, provocative and damaging rules/policies, any government authority can force upon all of us...!

People need to be given support and alternatives, when it comes to these issues, most are willing to compromise if authorities themselves are willing to compromise also, creating a situation where people would not have any problems is working with authorities to resolve their trees issues, particularly when they have planted them, themselves...!

There are many other circumstances where the general public, would have a totally different attitude towards trees, if authorities had a much better workable attitude and fairer laws. One has to have experienced to be on both sides of this problem to have a true understanding of what I'm talking about.

This terrorizing and scaring council campaigns, are not, and far from the right way to go about it and they know it but, is the greediness of many of these "greenies" that infiltrated themselves into positions of power (council and some government departments) that have "carved" the tree laws in such an unworkable and unreasonable state...!

Does one need to be a rocket scientist, to work out why, so many trees are "destroyed" by whatever means, particular by poisoning, every day, everywhere...???

How many of you have bother to do a web search under this title "undetectable ways to kill trees" or many other title searches that provided all you need to know of how to kill trees...??? read and see who and why they are either asking for that information or providing it to anyone that wants to know...! why...???

Is this the game the authorities want to play...??? because that is a lost battle that, will only get worse, unless a complete change of attitude and mentality, by those behind the power positions. In fact, if this is to continue, we all will lose in the end as we all will lose trees that didn't need to die...!

Does this all get's up my goat...??? bloody hell, it does...!

Cheers
George

KevinE

Here's yet another story from Today's paper:

Felled tree passed a 'hug test' | Adelaide Now

The ironic thing is that my understanding is that the tree is not covered at all under the new legislation, being that it's a Corymbia & certainly looks to be within 10m of the building.

colinjely

As someone who grew up in the, mostly, treeless western suburbs, we all appreciate the leafy suburbs of places like Camberwell and Surrey Hills. My own little suburb of Blackburn has its trees. However would a council indemnify you if one of your trees fell on a neighbours house, particularly if they were home and you killed them!? I remember coming back to my car one day when I had parked outside Caulfield Racecourse and seeing a large tree inside the racecourse which had come down and squashed some poor fellows car.Wonder if the racing club bought him a new car?

George Valentine

Hahaha...! in your/their dreams, I bet someone (protecting the race club) has classified that felled tree, as an "act of god/nature" so, no compensation whatsoever...!

I've seen that happening, far too many times, and if you/they didn't had the vehicle fully insured for replacement at market value, you walk home and even have to pay to have the vehicle taken to the wreckers...!

Cheers
George

pukunui

$118,000 for 1800Ha of land.
That's a slap with a wet bus ticket if i've ever seen one.
They should make him replant it all with local species and maintain it until its established.

Im a bit confused about some attitudes towards this case though, in one hand condemning the clearing but then calling for regulations trying to prevent this (and smaller scale examples) to be abolished.

Without the threat of at least some legal action then this sort of thing will only become more common, in both rural and urban areas.

yeah, just think if everyone was allowed to remove any tree they like, regardless of it's historic/amenity value, because its dropping leaves in their gutters, lifting a few pavers or blocking a view they think they should have.
But hey we could make a fast buck selling the wood.

colinjely

#pukunui
Presumably the resident has freehold title to this land. So under English law, from which ours comes, he has the right to lay waste to his own land (Although why you would after paying good money for the land somewhat escapes me) You say he should be made to purchase more trees and plant them and look after them, are you personally going to pay for this or are you going to impose an impossible economic burden on the owner?

What we need to know in this case is the type of vegetation, was it something worthwhile, or simply Brigalow scrub, or that well-known Australian Weed of National Significance, the Eucalypt! What use is the landholder putting the land to use now?

If the land clearing ban was put in place by the state government to enable the commonwealth government to meet its Kyoto commitments, then under Sect 51 of our Constitution, then the owner has a right to just terms compensation from the Commonwealth.

pukunui

So why has he been fined?
In this country we have laws that forbid this sort of thing in an attempt conserve natural bushland because of it's importance in conserving native biodiversity.

He went to the effort and expense of clearing it illegally so why shouldn't he go to the effort and expense of restoring it?

Why the hell would i pay for it? He is the one who destroyed it illegally.

Dale Stiller

Reading the comment thread so far it appears to me that much has been said with very little knowledge of what actually transpired or with very little perspective of what is relevant to this geographic situation, the eco-system, the industry being legally operated on this landscape. For example those living on quarter acre blocks in suburbia may believe that 1,800 ha is a sizable area but in this part of the country it isn’t. For the return achieved off this country I believe that a fine of this size would be greatly felt to this persons bank balance.
I suggest that people interested in this case google – mulga fodder harvesting

Apocalypsse

4,500 acres cleared, illegally... So tell us about the geographic situation, tell us about the eco-system which has been destroyed, in this case it doesn't look like the 'industry' has been operating legally either. Don't just come here saying we know very little about these things and not provide anything to back your case, it doesn't get anyone, anywhere.

Dale Stiller

@Apocalypsse
Did you look up, mulga fodder harvesting? The common practice of feeding to livestock in drought conditions a very common tree in these areas called mulga. This is what this landowner was doing; feeding hungry livestock.
To do so requires a permit under current Qld law. This landowner failed to bother to do so & of this he is guilty.
Many other landowners have been very frustrated by the time they have to wait from time of application to approval for a mulga fodder harvesting permt. They make an application when the season is turning dry & it is only a matter of time before the grass cuts out. But the department isn't processing the application & the livestock are losing weight. Do you break the law in regards to clearing laws or do you allow an animal welfare issue to come to fruition?
Why use the word, destroy? How was this landscape destroyed; what evidence do you have that it is to this day in a state of destruction?

Eric Frei

Well, I found this, DERM reckons 10 days for approval:-

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/factsheet...etation/v8.pdf

I would have to say it in my opinion that a professional farmer who lives off the land not being able to forecast or foresee drought issues and make adequate arrangements within a reasonable time window is perhaps a little incompetent in their vocation. I would say that had the judge seen evidence of a reasonable attempt or perhaps bureaucracy stifling progress then the fine may have been a lot less.

Now the article states:-
Which is aligned with what I think, and what in fact happened. No sorry from me, tough cheddar, do the crime and pay the fine.

Attached Files

v8.pdf (120.8 KB, 9 views)

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Dale Stiller

@Eric
It would be good if the time to assess an application is only 10 days; other landowners are finding that this process can drag out for months.

You have correctly pointed out in this case and so have I in my comments above, Mr Scriven didn’t even bother with the application process and yes he is under the law guilty of conducting fodder harvesting without a permit.

As for the investigating officers saying From my experience the opinion of these DERM “tree police” have little value. They are usually hell bent on a prosecution using whatever means they can.

Eric Frei

We do not know what the zoning was for the area cleared, we do not know what % was cleared, we do not know how it was cleared and if it would regenerate (grow again).

So on that part I am sceptical too.

If these farmers are between a rock and a hard place then they need to have evidence of a reasonable attempt to get permission. If DERM is slow etc they need to rally their local pollys out there and get the ball moving.

If the judge saw a list of emails, letters, dates, calls etc he'd understand the reasoning, at the same time if DERM is trumping it up exaggerating their opinion saying that the clearing was way worse than what they allow then it needs to be demonstrated why the volume of clearing was done and that perhaps DERM does not provide sufficient clearing to sustain the livestock .... also woodland density matters, volume per hectare of trees, size of trees etc.

So I think there's a bit of an example being made here too, DERM throwing their weight around and a big deterrent stick being shown.

It is wide open country and getting caught is no longer a matter of an eye witness but technology. They used satellites, easy enough for a program to overlay imagery and flag discrepancies for investigation, that is the new way and what happened here.

On a small scale we do that here (suburbia) using Google and Nearmap, look up locations and go back in time. Out there it's satellites for govt data, they'd know if you built a new building etc too.

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