The official Aussie dob in a door knocker thread

[Ekka]

I'd like it if you all could place it in one spot, as much info as you can. Then the officials etc can see for themselves what we have to deal with and how they're mainly islanders. (I have never seen other!)

Today a client nearly called in the door knockers to do my job!

Now this guy calls himself Eric (yeah right, that's his real name to I bet)

Attached is his card.


Now here's my homework on this one.

ABNLookup - Current details for 71?352?473?118

L S Proffesional Tree Lopping, 13 Rothon Dr, Rochedale South, Qld, 4123

And put his ABN in here https://www.workcoverqld.com.au/eol/...o?function=voc and you'll see no insurance yet claims fully insured.

Just in case his advertising link breaks here's the info
L S Proffesional Tree Lopping

Address:
13 Rothon Dr, Rochedale South, QLD 4123
Phone: (07) 3341 5665
Mobile: 0401 238 483

Entity name: LEMUELU, SOOTAGA
Entity type: Individual/Sole Trader
Main business location
State: QLD
Postcode: 4123
Trading name(s)

L & S Tree Lopping


Now tell me, what sort of professional

calls themself a tree lopper?

Advertises tree topping/finishing?

Sunday to Friday, no Saturday as they are 7th Day Adventists?

Here's the Qld laws on door knocking
Fair Trading Qld

Monday to Friday between 9am and 6pm

Saturday between 9am and 5pm

Calls on Sunday or public holidays are prohibited.

Also, you can get them on their verbal bullshit, they must supply a contract and cooling off period.

If a customer decides to buy a good or service valued more than $75 from a door-to-door salesperson, the law provides additional protection. They must be given a written contract setting out the terms (eg. full amount to be paid) and there is a mandatory 10 day cooling off period enabling consumers to change their minds without penalty during this time. A statement that the contract is subject to a 10 day cooling-off period must be provided in upper case writing (18 point type) and placed immediately above the space provided for the customer's signature. The contract must include the total price, including GST, of the goods or services provided or spell out how the total price is to be calculated.

During the cooling off period, you:

? should not ask for, or accept, any payment including deposits

? should not supply any services or commence work

? can leave goods with the customer, but this is at your own risk.



Customers must receive a copy of the contract after they sign it, a notice explaining their right to cancel and a form which they can easily use to advise you in writing that they wish to cancel the deal if they change their mind within the 10 days.

[Quintrex]

They're all over sydney too, started out west and spread their operation.
I've heard rumours of them standing over people for payment and not completing work, and also claiming to have authority from councils to do what they like.A lot of older clients go along with them as they will lop and hack to requirements.
A couple of councils have prosecuted them, but when court day arrives the named offender has left the country.
Plenty more to replace him though!

[mdvaden]

"Finishing" - now that's one I've never heard before. Sounds so complete, doesn't it !!

[Ekka]

Yeah that's what I thought, like they must plane/sand the flat tops!

[Roller]

finnishing lol

[Roller]

friends of my father inlaw recently had work carried out by door knockers down on the NSW central coast a small town called Engerdene, my father in-law was there at the time, he said they we're white Australians, the barstewards charged the old guy $1000 for 30mins work, they felled 12 [15'] small palm trees and left all the cr@p on site, 3 men 1 ute...

[Ekka]

Need a good floggin' the mongrels!

[JohN Dee]

Check out these guys that I just hired Walked down to my local mosk and knew they were just right for the job... They're commision based too

[Done it]

Maybe he means he actually finishes the job, instead of leaving a heap of branches & stumps. I'm forever getting calls to "finish" what these guys didn't. I've got a heap of these cards just from home, well maybe we do have a few trees but it looks good to me.

[newguy18]

Can the aussie cops do like a sting op on them like they do drug dealers and car thiefs here?

[Done it]

Hi Ekka, I just got another call, old lady: "Can you help me, I've just had these people come" etc. I'm going in the morning. Here are some of the cards left in our flyscreen door over the last couple of months, I don't have a scanner yet so I took pictures, I hope you get them ok. You'll like number 5, especially the Veiw/ , I like 6, even his card is crooked. For Mike/ Micheal read Mustaffa. Usually only mobile numbers.

[Ekka]

Yeah, I bet I know how they knock down any old thing in their bloody way too, not only sheds! LOL

[Therrin]

What do they mean they knock down sheds or garages????

They're proud of that? WTH?

[Ekka]

Ya got his number, ring him up.

[windthrown]

Funny terms there down under. Makes little sence to an Amurikan. Tree lopping, door knockers, standing over people, ringing up, and all that. Never thought of my chainsaws as tree loppers!

Fosters... now, I can understand your lager there mates!

[Ekka]

Check this out.

From the police and even the bank staff help.

Scoop: Beware Tree Pruners And Others Who 'Cold Call'

Beware Tree Pruners And Others Who 'Cold Call'

Thursday, 7 August 2008, 1:42 pm
Press Release: New Zealand Police

Tree Pruners And Others Who 'Cold Call' At Your Back Door


New Zealand Police Canterbury News Release
1:09pm 7 August 2008

Christchurch Police Community Police officer Deborah Smalley appeared on Fair Go this week on the perennial story of the tree pruners and others who 'cold call' at your back door offering gardening and hedge trimming.

"Many of these groups - and they often work in groups of five or more, come 'cold calling' at homes, knocking on doors and windows and walking around properties without consent," she says. "They are well known for overcharging, particularly the elderly, for basic jobs."

Customers are often persuaded to pay outrageous prices for what are really just small jobs however they are not done professionally and often ruin trees.

"They often take advantage of the elderly and vulnerable. I've been told of tree workers pretending to not understand language, and then try to push up prices they had early quoted," says Deborah Smalley.

The two worst recent incidents in Christchurch she knows of, both involved people in their 80's.

"One was seriously overcharged for poor and incomplete work. The trimmers then returned several times to be paid over and over for the same work. The second person was being charged $350 to have work done, however payment was collected twice weekly for the same job."

In both of these instances bank staff have become concerned and intervened by refusing to cash large cheques to protect their customers.

In the earlier years of operation the workers showed little knowledge or skill in their work. They tended to mostly use rudimentary tools such as machetes for trimming and very few chain saws. The quality of work was reported to be extremely poor and frequently brutal to vegetation. It is very unlikely that any of the operators had any formal training as an arborist despite claims to the contrary.

In more recent times the trimmers have become more confident and bold in their methods of operation. Outwardly they appear professional, wearing high visibility fluro vests and work with proper equipment and machinery. The skill involved or quality of work carried out is believed to have not greatly improved.

"One of the features about groups and individuals involved in these activities is suspicious or overbearing behaviour and failure to leave any contact details at properties visited," Senior Constable Smalley says. "They often claim to be raising money for community groups such as a choir or a church group."

Senior Constable Smalley says that there are problems in tracking these groups down later because groups have multiple business cards, different names, and are very hard to find because they have no business or street address.

Senior Constable Smalley has advice for dealing with the 'cold caller'.

„X Anyone who comes to your door offering goods or services uninvited should be treated with suspicion.

„X If a deal seems too good to be true it probably is.

„X If there is pressure to accept any offer on the day, steer clear of it.

„X Don't be afraid to ask for a quote.

„X Ask your friends, family and neighbours for support in making decisions.

„X If there is anyone on your property whom you don't want there, ask them to leave. If they do not do so promptly, call the police.

„X Family, friends and neighbours, please keep an eye on each other - be a good neighbour.

[JohN Dee]

I thought this would be the apropriate place to put these up.

Found these along with an islanders license in an empty wallet that I found at the tip. Usually I would return the wallet, but this case was indeed a different one being one of my scourge-hack-islander-competitors.

There was a 3rd business card with the Henry guy again with the same number, but I can't put my hand on that now.



These islanders have no regards for any standards or laws at all. Ever seen the piles of brush down the main road or swerved to miss them cottom palm fronds on the road? Well that's from their un-secure loads. I'll post more pictures later on of these illegitimate operators.

Another thing that is the go nowa' days. They quote the job 1k-1.5k over so they can go and hire ALL OF THE GEAR to complete the job. Ranging from the chainsaws to the stumper to the ute/truck. One job I quoted - the guy before me quoted I think it was $1700 for this piss easy conifer removal that I put $350 on. That huge price tag came after he told the customer that he had to hire ALL OF THE GEAR to complete the job. Again I'll post the pictures a little later, just gotta find em' first!

Anyone else here in Sydney or Melbourne got these stories to tell with pictures to back it up? Well post it all here, let it fly. Now is the time to speak up and be heard to make a difference.

[Ekka]

And how could we miss this rascal!

Notorious Door Knocker Juliamafina Bloom| Current Affair Footage

[newguy18]

I can't see them getting much business after being on the news.

[TrevMcRev]

Heres a card.

I'll call a few customers to try to get more details on others.

[Ekka]

On another forum a NZ poster wrote this.

Originally Posted by TimberMcPherson

These guys are found throughout NZ to. In our region we have a large well organised group of them who link themselves to various samoan churches. One lot calls themselves COSAC

Heres there website, its kinda funny-branches in NZ, AUS and looking at getting into the US (yeah right).

cosac - COSAC Profile

They are big guys and push jobs on people and triple quotes once the job is done. When they did a job for one of my clients mothers they upped the price many times over and put her in there truck to take to the ATM.

Most are collecting the dole and aside from there shocking work, no safety gear they also like to have kids work for them as well. They often only take payment in cash and will make clients (or victims) write them a reference afterwards.

They have been exposed by alot of media but knock on every door in our region, but rip off enough people to make it worthwhile.

I think alot of the groups all over NZ are linked, (and the cosac site says they are) it seems strange that it seems to be samoans always doing it but no cook island, tongan, fijian, rarotongan or Nuiens involved.

[TrevMcRev]

Here's a job we got called in to complete. Left unfinished by the doorknockers.

2 trees, both left like this, stumps high, branches scattered everywhere (including neighbours property), logwood left so big you had to be a samoan to move it

The unsuspecting customer was left with all this to get rid off in addition to what he paid the doorknockers.

They tried to get him to do 1 more due to 1 only borer hole, telling him it had termites, fortunately that tree still stands as he was suspect.

The whole street and area was full of similar looking front yards.

This are requires planning permits for tree removal. This process usually takes several weeks in this area, i'm sure every 2nd house didn't happen to just have one handy.

[Rebel9]

I totally agree to catch these people who give us tree loppers a bad name.

I am disgusted by the way we are all going about this "dob the tree lopper". I can not help but feel stereotyped by calling these people "Islanders". I know for sure there are always going to be bad fruit amongst any crop and thats how i see this. I will agree that, YES! lets get these people outa here and expose them. But lets also be sensitive to people like myself who is Samoan and am a tree lopper, trained with certificates from Arbortrim Training Consultancy back in 2002. I am a very honest person who runs a honest business. If you think its hard for you to have these cowboys running around using their chainsaws like pistols in the wild west, then what do you think it does for my business and some of my friends who we are also certified tree loppers? Very hard indeed. I am in no way condoning this sort of shocking work as shown in ACA, I say take them down, but on the same note, lets not stereotype. To be honest, I have cleaned up after many many bad jobs over the years of those tree loppers who were not "so called Islanders" or Samoans. So i would like to humbly request that we should have reliable proof and be very careful with the business cards we put up. We cant just get cards out of doors and letterboxes and jpeg it up and say, these are the bad guys!

Dob in these guys and have a safe industry.

[Rebel9]

Originally Posted by Ekka

And how could we miss this rascal!

Notorious Door Knocker Juliamafina Bloom| Current Affair Footage

not happy with this juliamafina at all. Its people like this that give me us a bad rep. Lock em all up

[Ekka]

Rebel9,

The irony is they can post just like you and have their say, but they dont.

We have covered extensively on the forum the requirement that people should post up their qualifications, you can get blogs for free these days, there's no excuse. Having some crappy chainsaw ticket with a first aid course is not qualified in my book, the industry expects a certain level of qualification before some-one makes recommendations for removing a tree or calling it dangerous. Yes, door knockers use that technique all the time, they even suggest deciduous trees are dead and need to be cut down.

We also have a pack of Indian's or Pakistanis, not sure which that do the same however they're not as prevalent as the islanders have been over the last few years. I'd say they have been "out knocked."

I dont see other nationalities doing it, never had complaints of Aussies door knocking and ripping people off, rarely see it, you might see it when they have a truck load of mulch to unload or working in the street and talk to neighbours ..... in cases like that I give a free written quote, no BSing around about cash or do now cheap etc. If a neighbour comes out and invites you then that's different and doesn't apply under the act because you were invited.

Maybe you can influence these people to change their ways and live by Australian law.

There's also a law for unconscionable conduct. It's there to protect the elderly, vulnerable etc. I would call it unconsionable to raise the price $300 after the job making a total of $900 to cut down (no stump grind) 1 small alexandra palm that took them 20minutes all up and the customer was 81 years old.

Every time I get some phone, electric account sales person or charity collector at the door they have photographic ID and when asked to leave they must.

Sure anyone can door knock, the rules are simple, with written fixed price quotes with cooling off periods.

Also watch the hours you door knock.

Current Queensland Law. Fair Trading Qld - Door to Door Sales - Door to door trading hours exemptions

Under the Act, companies in Queensland can trade door-to-door only between the hours of 9.00am – 6.00pm Monday to Friday and 9.00am – 5.00pm on Saturdays.

No trading is permitted on Sundays or public holidays.

It is illegal for door-to-door salespeople to visit Queensland homes outside these hours unless their business has received a special exemption from the Office of Fair Trading, which allows them to trade until 8.00pm on weeknights.

From 1 November 2008, no exemptions from normal door-to-door trading hours have been granted.

Anyone found to have breached the Act faces fines of up to $40,500 for individuals and $202,500 for companies.

Another Law: Department of Tourism, Racing and Fair Trading

Door-to-door sales contracts worth $75 or more are covered by the Fair Trading Act 1989, but there are exceptions - insurance and credit sales have their own laws. Telephone, internet and Pay TV services must comply with these rules if sold door-to-door.

A 10-day colling-off period applies during which you can cancel your contract worth more than $75 and no money or goods should change hands or be installed before the cooling-off period ends. You must receive forms explaining your rights and how to cancel.

The whole concept being ... NO PUSHY PAY CASH LYING BS!


Victorian Consumer Affairs Door Knocker Warning

NSW Law: Door-to-door sales and telemarketing - NSW Office of Fair Trading

5 day cooling-off period

There is a cooling-off period of 5 clear business days during which a consumer may cancel a direct commerce contract.

Consumers must be given written information about their cancellation rights before the contract is made. Telemarketers must give consumers the information over the phone and follow up with written information.

Consumers can cancel their contract by giving written notice to the dealer or supplier during the cooling-off period. They can give notice in person, by mail, fax or email and the following applies:

*
door-to-door sales – within 5 clear business days from the day the contract was made

A dealer or supplier must not collect any fees during the cooling-off period for services provided by the dealer or supplier during that period.

Example: A roof repairer who calls uninvited and charges more than $100 for a job cannot collect payment if the repair work is carried out during the cooling-off period.

[Rebel9]

Ekka
thanks for the reply, i have read all the forwarded from previous remarks by yourself AND MAY I ADD, i totally agree about these cowboys. Yes we all have an opinion and that's democracy. Like I said before it ills me when people stereotype with "ISLANDERS or "SAMOAN". I dont know if you can tell a Korean from a Chinese? or a Japanese from Taiwanese? I am just shocked how people can tell a Tongan from a Samoan or a Maori from a Samoan or any Pacific Island for that matter!!

I am just giving across my opinion that not all doorknockers are bad. We can't say that either. Like I said, I run a successful tree lopping business and a very honest one at that, but am I bad or worse because Im Samoan?
If one sparky does a dodgy job for me or you does that mean all sparkies are bad? "NO", so we cant say, "Samoans are all bad in this Industry"

[Sean Freeman]

Rebel you are right it should not be stated that all the members of any ethnic group are this or that, since none of us can ever meet or get to know intimately what is going on with every memeber of that group.

It is however a tendancy in conversation to oversimplify our terms, and often in doing so we unitentionally cause offence to those against whom our comments were not intended...at least thats my opinion..can't speak for anyone else here but my experience with almost all the different Islanders (I have not met people from every Pacific Island) I have met has been totally positive, that does not mean that I think what Eric has experienced is incorrect, merely that we have met different people....

Some of the hardest working most honest people I have had the pleasure to know are from our Pacific neighbours, but clearly that does not excuse what is going on the Brisbane and elsewhere...ethnicity does not make a person make the wrong choices, and behave illegally.

[TrevMcRev]

G'day Rebel9

Thanks for having your say on Treeword!

It has crossed my mind how this current situation would affect any legit tree service operation that appears to be of "islander" descent.

You will have a tough time getting across your point of difference to your customers that you are not "one of them". That's going to be a challenge, and i dont envy the situation it puts you in.

I've thought carefully about stereotyping or appearing racist when discussing this situation.

The problem isn't that they are predominantly islanders. I myself have employed a few maori workers in the past. Some good, some bad.

The problem is doorknocking, deception, pressure tactics, conning, ripping off, bad workmanship, illegal work without council permits, demanding increased prices when 1/2 finished or else not finishing, driving old ladies to the ATM to get their cash & dumping them there to find there own way home etc etc.

The people doing this have done thousands of jobs across melbourne alone.

It is fact that in every instance that i'm aware of it involved a group of people that are of "islander" descent.

If one sparky does a dodgy job for me or you does that mean all sparkies are bad? "NO", so we cant say, "Samoans are all bad in this Industry"

That would be like saying one tree service does a dodgy job all tree services are dodgy.

The question should be more like "If hundreds of "Islanders" do thousands of dodgy jobs are all islanders bad?"

The answer is still no.

But thanks to their actions, it is unfortunately harder for legit operators to not have their business effected, and even harder for a legit operator who appears to be of islander descent to distinguish themselvel from these crooks.

Good Luck

[Ekka]

Like I said, it's predominantly Islanders that door knock, with a few Indians/Pakistanis thrown in.

The exact origin of those peoples I do not know, however the word on the street is they are not Maori's but Islanders who apparently easily come into the country via NZ and a New Zealand passport. Every other nation that comes here has stringent rules to abide bide, they need visa's, work visa's etc, even the English and they used to own the place and still have a Queen over us. However, anyone coming from NZ is exempt from all that stuff. So I take it then the debate can go further and say something like, well if they have a NZ passport they must be NZ residents ... maybe, maybe they were born there, maybe they migrated, I dont know nor do I care because what we see is a workforce with privaledges no other has from overseas. So we also then have a situation where this workforce comes in unchecked, 5 door knocking islanders becomes 50 over night as they come in no questions asked with a NZ passport.

To then go semi-legit they can get a TFN and ABN online these days, transfer their drivers licence to Australian, rent or buy some sort of ute or truck, start door knocking and life is great!

But back on track.

This is about door knocking, and the fact that hitting people up the way they do is illegal.

If you dont door knock, like people ring your business for quotes etc then that's different.

If you look through the forum you'll see plenty of other issues for all denominations where we have shown shoddy work, poor practices. This isn't about any particular people, but about particular practices.

Those practices are then performed predominantly by a certain groups of peoples, then that evidence and statistical fact can be interpreted however you choose but they remain just so.

They can change their practices though, or bugger off, I dont really care but as long as anyone door knocks, no matter who they are they go under the scope. Just so happens that it's predominantly "islanders".

We can't say that either. Like I said, I run a successful tree lopping business and a very honest one at that, but am I bad or worse because Im Samoan?

Obviously makes no difference what nationality anyone is as to the work they perform.

What makes a difference is their attitude, skills and qualifications. That is what we try to drum into customers heads here. Look for the paperwork, look deeper than some business name too as there's plenty of business owners who never ever climbed a tree or have a clue, who possibly hire monkeys for peanuts or have unqualified people quoting and more unqualified people hacking trees. It happens.

The customer needs to ask and see ...

1/ Qualifications of the operation
2/ Insurances including workers comp
3/ Full details, name number ABN etc
4/ Fixed price written quote

There's some more about this here and they do say avoid people who call themselves or their operation "tree loppers".

Avoid people who present themselves as a ‘lopper’ or who offer you ‘lopping’services. Tree lopping (indiscriminate branch removal) and tree topping (cutting the top off a tree) are internationally discredited practices because they increase the risk of tree failure.

[Rebel9]

Ekka & TREVMcREV

I hope your having a cuppa

Again, in what you have both stated is true. "I AGREE" work ethics is of great importance. Thats why i say to get these dodgy guys out. I know its easy for you to say its not about, "ISLANDERS" or "SAMOANS"......... however, for me, Im Samoan and as TREVMcREV said, its harder for me. But my works will prove itself in quality and experience and good customer service.

If you were Samoan or Islander, i think our opinions would be the same.