Newcastle Avenue Fig Trees Dispute $70K plan

Jeff Darby · 7th February 2012, 09:38 AM

The dust has not even settled as the last fig is removed and political aspirations seem to be appearing. Form an outsiders point of view it is starting to look like the real reason for this costly fiasco was to gain a public face as a base for election to council...imo, however I ask you our readers to read and look carefully in the coming months that unfold in Newcastle elections...

Quote:

Greens quiet on council aspirations
BY BEN SMEE, CIVIC REPORTER
07 Feb, 2012 04:00 AM
PROMINENT fig campaigners John Sutton and Fee Mozeley would neither confirm nor deny yesterday persistent rumours they had been preselected by the Greens for upcoming Newcastle City Council elections.
The party has not publicly announced its candidates despite holding preselections more than four weeks ago.

‘‘At this stage we’re not making any announcements,’’ Newcastle Greens convener Claire Charles said yesterday.

The Newcastle Herald has confirmed through a source that Mr Sutton, a former councillor, will run for lord mayor and will also head the Greens ticket in Ward 4.

Ms Mozeley is understood to be the party’s lead candidate in Ward 3.

Councillor Michael Osborne will recontest Ward 1, which includes areas such as Cooks Hill and Islington where Greens traditionally receive strong support from voters.

Mr Sutton said the party was ‘‘in a process at the moment [and] we’re going to make an announcement at some time in the future’’.

‘‘I’m neither confirming or denying that [I’m a candidate],’’ he said.

Ms Mozeley would also not confirm her candidacy, and said the party would decide when candidates were announced.

The ALP is expected to hold preselections for its Newcastle City Council ticket in April.

Labor councillor Nuatali Nelmes, who is considering nominating for lord mayor, said she did not understand why the Greens would not release information about their candidates.

‘‘I don’t know why it’s a secret,’’ she said.

Mr Sutton has been prominent in the campaign to save the Laman Street fig trees and is the public officer for Save Our Figs.

Ms Mozeley has the public face for much of the fig campaign and is one of the group’s public spokeswomen.

Work to remove the canopies of the Laman Street fig trees is expected to be complete by tomorrow afternoon.

Greens quiet on council aspirations

Jeff Darby · 7th February 2012, 06:03 PM

The last fig falls...

Quote:

Final fig falls on Laman Street
BEN SMEE
07 Feb, 2012 03:25 PM
The final fig fell in Laman Street today, and Newcastle City Council says the road will be open to traffic again by the end of the month.
The final section of the green canopy was removed about midday, marking the end of a two-year debate about the future of the street.

According to the council, the 14 tree stumps will remain in the ground until work to rehabilitate the road begins.

In the meantime, work will focus on cleaning the street so it can be opened to traffic and the fences through Civic Park can be removed.

The city’s library and art gallery will both be open to the public tomorrow.

only the clean up and stump grinding left to until the job makes the half way mark...it's just a shame about all the money that was wasted, hopefully this can be a thread to look back on when other councils have to make hard decisions, I commend the council for their final actions in this matter making hard calls in the face of an angry mob...

Quote:

Sometimes managers need the courage to make unpopular decisions, as in the case of an avenue that can no longer be maintained and must instead be completely replanted to re-create a lovely townscape for our children and their children.We must learn to see not only the particular case but to design concepts for the whole. Thus there may be individual trees in a valuble, historic park which cannot be made safe without prohibitive cost and which will otherwise be lost one by one.

Matteck C & Broleor H (1994) The Body Language of Trees pg8

last Fig falls on Laman Street

Eric Frei · 7th February 2012, 07:36 PM

Who'd vote for them? Just a nut job.

And there's plenty of them around, also plenty of imbalanced, one eyed, tree hugging idiot arborists.

Eric Frei · 8th February 2012, 04:20 PM

From Youtube:-

Quote:

Listen to Dr Caitlin Raschke (medical practitioner in Medowie) scream obscenities at a police officer around the 10 second mark in this vid.... I hope this is enough evidence for them to fine her for offensive language in public!! Who would go to a doctor like Dr Caitlin Raschke???

I can hear "you fuggen *unts"

Listen for yourselves.

Dr Caitlin Raschke Medowie.3gp - YouTube

Eric Frei · 11th February 2012, 10:49 PM

Well, I diagnosed nut jobs belonging to that MOB long ago, but this one also seems to be able to thwart the law like the other well known phone menace.

Seems being a nut job gets you off the hook.

Police find fig death threat caller - Local News - News - General - Newcastle Herald

Quote:

Police find fig death threat caller
BY IAN KIRKWOOD
10 Feb, 2012 04:00 AM

POLICE believe they have identified the person responsible for alleged fig-related death threats against Newcastle councillors but are unlikely to take action against him.

At the height of tensions late last month and early this month over the Laman Street trees, councillors Scott Sharpe, Aaron Buman and Graham Boyd were all telephoned at home and threatened with violence.

Cr Sharpe was told over the phone on Monday, January 30, that the person would ‘‘f---ing kill him’’.

The next day, Cr Boyd received a call from someone who said he was ‘‘coming around to murder me’’.

The same day, Cr Buman had a message left on his home land line in which he said the caller threatened to cut his young daughter’s head off with an axe.

‘‘We generally let calls to home go through to the answering machine and our daughter was on the computer next to the phone,’’ Cr Buman said yesterday.

‘‘It took a while to realise what was going on, with this loud voice through the phone and then my daughter screaming. It took four days to calm her down.’’

Cr Sharpe said police told him yesterday they had found the person who threatened him.

‘‘He also admitted ringing Cr Buman and Cr Boyd from a public phone around the corner from his house,’’ Cr Sharpe said.

‘‘The police say there are mental health issues involved and they don’t think it’s worth pursuing and that a prosecution involving all three calls would be hard to prove.’’

Cr Sharpe said he was satisfied with the decision not to prosecute however Cr Boyd, who did not report his call until last Friday, believed further action should be taken.

Cr Buman said such threats were sadly part of life as a politician.

All three councillors said they felt let down by lord mayor John Tate, who they said should have condemned the threats.

Jeff Darby · 11th February 2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

‘‘It took a while to realise what was going on, with this loud voice through the phone and then my daughter screaming. It took four days to calm her down.’’

I am usually the first to say it's not worth in when it comes to wasting money, however I do feel in this case it would be worth the money to try and get some form of conviction on this nut job, this will stay with young innocent girl for life... do you read what I just wrote....innocent just for the ones who can not comprehend the issue here.

I condemn the threats by this man, coward !

Eric Frei · 15th February 2012, 07:55 PM

Laman Street tree tension remains - Local News - News - General - Newcastle Star

Quote:

Laman Street tree tension remains
BY LEE TOBIN
15 Feb, 2012 01:00 AM

GONE: Laman Street last week after the last fig was removed.

WHILE the final fig has fallen, it will take about 12 months before Newcastle City Council's Laman Street project is finished.

The council's landscape architects and road engineers are working on the design, cost estimates and construction program for replacing the 14 iconic figs, which will go before councillors in March.

In the meantime, Laman Street is expected to be cleared and open to traffic by the end of this month.

Newcastle Art Gallery and Newcastle Region Library have reopened.

The tension between councillors and the community, however, is not expected to end soon.

At last week's council meeting, about 35 protesters stood with their backs turned in the chamber.

In a similar vein, councillor Aaron Buman said he had written to Newcastle State MP Tim Owen asking the NSW Department of Local Government investigate the Laman Street matter.

And as the September council elections loom, the Greens party will be headed by fig supporters, including former Newcastle councillor John Sutton, councillor Michael Osborne, former Concord Greens councillor Therese Doyle and high-profile figs activist Fee Mozeley.

Well, now there's some hopeful candidates, especially that Fee-fi-fo-fum one! That's the one who fabricated a defamatory presentation about Dennis Marsden, wow, what a hopeful candidate, would you vote for that?

Drouin Tree Service · 15th February 2012, 08:41 PM

The whole Newcastle figs mirrors how the entire country is run at present,"Green groups"influencing people who hold power and blatant waste of money with no regard for the tax payer.

Eric Frei · 22nd April 2012, 12:27 PM

Please find attached a copy of a letter provided by NCC to Phil Hewett clearing him of corruption allegations made by Craig Hallam.

Eric Frei · 23rd April 2012, 05:08 PM

I'm glad that the NSW Land and Environment Court rely on facts!

Here's a link to the specific case, Freeman v Dillon [2012] NSWLEC 1057

Now in particular I'm looking at this:-

Quote:

26 Mr Hartley concludes that the driveway slab in the vicinity of the garage door has been lifted; he says that "In the absence of any other logical explanation it seems reasonable to conclude that this pressure has arisen from pressure applied by tree roots." Mr Hartley then goes on to discuss the pressures that may be exerted by tree roots as well as the formation of wound wood on roots in contact with concrete and the additional damage that may cause. He opines:

Now that the damage to the driveway has started it will continue to worsen each year with the damage accelerating fasted [sic] in the period of spring to early summer. Cutting of the offending roots is unlikely to cause any significant impact on the health of the trees and will certainly not impact on the stability of the trees.

But was the slab really lifted by tree roots or not? Is there proof?

Well here's the answer:-

Quote:

29 I note that Mr Hartley's report does not include an introduction as to the scope of the report nor does it include a method statement as to how he came to his conclusions. There is nothing in his report to say that he excavated and uncovered roots. At the hearing Ms Freeman was asked if Mr Hartley carried out any excavations and she said that he did not.

So no proof but in the absence of any other logical explanation it must be roots Hartley claims.

Also an engineer was involved and he also blames the trees, citing the usual CSIRO data:-

Quote:

30 Mr Lukeman's report notes the cracks in the driveway in front of the garage, the lifting of the slab at the garage door by about 30mm, a hairline vertical crack in the northern side wall of the garage, and a hairline vertical crack beside the vent in the side wall of the garage. His report includes photographs of the damage. Mr Lukeman notes the presence of the adjoining trees and concludes that the damage has been caused by the trees. He cites a CSIRO information sheet that recommends that single trees should be kept away from footings by a distance equal to their mature height, which in this case he says, is approximately 15m. He then recommends that any tree within 4m [2010 report] or 5m [2011 report] of the garage should be removed, that the concrete driveway slab be demolished and replaced, and the repair of cracked brickwork.

So the court asks again for proof:-

Quote:

31 Again, Ms Freeman was questioned as to whether Mr Lukeman undertook any excavations or any other tests recommended in the Hartley report and she said that he did not.

But the neighbouring tree owner did get an arborist who did excavate around the slab looking for roots and found very little:-

Quote:

35 On the basis of his excavations, Mr Lang concludes that the claims of tree root damage to the driveway apron and the walls of the garage could not be supported.

But it doesn't matter the applicant (Freeman) isn't budging:-

Quote:

38 Notwithstanding Mr Lang's oral and written evidence, Ms Freeman still contends that roots from the trees have grown under the driveway. She also relies on the reports and opinions of her experts.

So the court makes a LOGICAL decision:-

Quote:

Findings - damage to the driveway and garage

40 On the evidence before me, in particular the photographs and details in Mr Lang's report, I am not satisfied to the level required by s 10(2) of the Act that roots from T1, or any other tree on the Dillon property, have caused damage to Ms Freeman's garage or driveway. Future damage is unlikely given the extent of the excavation for the new storm water pipes. I am satisfied that the problem with the garage door pre-existed her purchase of the property and there is no evidence it has been caused by tree roots.

41 Neither of Ms Freeman's experts undertook any investigations to support their opinions. With respect to Mr Hartley's report, it appears to me that it would have been much simpler and more straight forward to excavate a trench and look for any roots than his suggested course of action for the engineer, particularly as the results would most likely require verification by 'root mapping'. Mr Lukeman's report is of no assistance to the Court as it merely catalogues the damage and makes a general reference to a CSIRO information sheet that is not included in the report.

42Therefore as none of the tests in s 10(2) are satisfied, the elements of the application relating to the driveway, garage door and external wall of the garage are dismissed.

Here's a link to s 10(2). And this is what it says:-

Quote:

(2) The Court must not make an order under this Part unless it is satisfied that the tree concerned:

(a) has caused, is causing, or is likely in the near future to cause, damage to the applicant’s property, or

(b) is likely to cause injury to any person.

Thank goodness and great work Judy Fakes.

A dangerous trap, "in the absence of any other logical explanation" is a very limited way in approaching an issue. Soils move, I have seen leaking plumbing being responsible for heave. Subsidence is also often blamed on trees when the area was filled and is typical long term settlement of soil. I have seen where driveways meet garages a step form over time, the heavier structure (house with garage) moves differently (or stays still) compared to the driveway which is often lighter and just a slab laid on top of soil.

This is court, you need data and facts, this isn't like QTRA.

You might ask how do I prove it is subsidence from tree roots? Well, there's tests to do, not rocket science but you'd have to take soil cores and have a geo tech test various things, near the slab, other side of the slab and a "control" core, see the variances. And even then root barrier can be put down to prevent roots altering soil moisture.

You might ask how do I prove it's tree roots lifting this slab? Well, you hand dig at the edges just like Lang did along the slab to see if any are going underneath. Here they had rock at 300mm deep which made it an easier task. Of course you can use airspades and even watervac excavation, the issue is getting proof.

7th February 2012, 07:36 PM	#273
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: Newcastle Avenue Fig Trees Dispute $70K plan Who'd vote for them? Just a nut job. And there's plenty of them around, also plenty of imbalanced, one eyed, tree hugging idiot arborists. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

15th February 2012, 08:41 PM	#278
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,727	Re: Newcastle Avenue Fig Trees Dispute $70K plan The whole Newcastle figs mirrors how the entire country is run at present,"Green groups"influencing people who hold power and blatant waste of money with no regard for the tax payer. __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Neighbour Dispute re tree fence line	Treecrazed	Ask an Arborist here	38	3rd May 2010 08:41 AM
Climbing Accident In Newcastle Aus	dci2005	ANNOUNCEMENTS	8	20th December 2008 08:22 PM
Neighbours boundary dispute	angela	Ask an Arborist here	3	31st August 2008 09:21 PM
Flooding plan to save Murray red gums	Eric Frei	General Tree Chat	5	5th October 2007 08:05 PM