Koala Craziness as Govt approve relocating them for development

Save Mary St

A pile of mulch and a small excavator arrived onsite today - presumably for mulching the TPZ's. Should be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

Anyone wanting to send a message to the State Government about anything, come along to Redlands Sporting Club (Redlands Sporting Club - Google Maps) tomorrow (28 June) where the Premier and the Cabinet will be attending a community cabinet luncheon.

We'll be there at 12noon. All welcome, BYO placards!

Save Mary St

We went to the Ombudsman who quoted back to us what the State Govt had told them They said they could not investigate because:-
"I do not consider that you have a sufficient direct interest in the action complained of, and I decline to investigate your complaint on this basis."
and "As the Ombudsman has no jurisdiction in relation to the decisions of a Minister, this Office cannot investigate Ms Struthers’ response to you, not any responses provided by the Premier or other Ministers."
So there you go - no justice.

Eric Frei

Pretty typical of politics and govt though.

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Save Mary St

Arborist onsite all day. Trench cut with airspade, chainsaw (?) and backhoe and then backfilled with soil. The whole of the footpath area where the koala trees are has been mulched with at least 200mm of fine bark. No watering took place before the bark was dumped and it is piled up around the tree trunks.
Great tree protection. Unless we receive monsoonal rain these trees have no chance of getting moisture or air. Great work.

Jeff Darby

Damn ! this certainly smells..

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Member: Australian Tree Association

Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard !

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

© Jeffrey J Darby 2011

jmcg.insight.gardens

I really am appalled by all this, what comes as a surprise to me, that after recommending that only one of their certified mob get the work, they can't even implement what they know to be the correct practice!!!!!!!, especially on a high profile job.


sad, sad, sad.

Eric Frei

Hmmm, I'd need to see that mulch, it sounds to me like hoop pine fines. The pieces are often no bigger than the finger nail of your little finger, with the majority being half that size.

Coarse chunky mulch with some wood, bark and leaves is best..... and it's the stuff that comes out of most tree peoples wood chippers.

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Save Mary St

Righteo, latest update from the Mary St Circus.

We now have proper TPZ's, not paint on the ground, see pictures below of what was deemed to be suitable for the survival of these trees. Have included the paperbarks which are on the opposite side of the site.











We also have mulch, applied in a manner which conflicts with the landzone report - "no deeper than 100mm" & "No mulch should be touching the trunk and a 150mm void between mulch and trunk would be acceptable".













The Tree Doc (I believe you know him Eric) arrived this morning and hosed on something from tanks in the back of his ute.

We also received an email from the principal project manager from Dept. of Public Works. Happy reading!

I write in response to the telephone conversation on the 18/06/10, with regards to various concerns you had regarding the Koala habitat trees located on the Thorn Rd boundary of the 6 Mary St site and other construction related issues.

The following is my response in relation to your concerns raised in the phone conversation of the 18 June.

Alleged damage to tree roots during site demolition phase
The works undertaken were part of the demolition phase and not the excavation and construction phase. The Arborist deemed that it was not necessary to be onsite during the demolition and site clearing phase.
A discussion was held with the project Arborist in relation to the alleged damaged to tree roots located on the Thorn Rd boundary and the base of the trees located in the south western corner. The project Arborist, has advised it appears that no significant damage occurred to these trees and their roots during the demolition and site clearing works.
It is relevant to note that other ‘non Koala habitat trees were removed in this general zone and their root systems were left in the ground afterwards. It may be possible that the roots you have viewed belong to non Koala habitat trees.

Arborist Engagement
The State does not agree with your claim that the Developer selected “one of their own Arborists.” The project Arborist was selected from list of recommended local Arborists, provided by the Redlands City Council.
We have confirmed the project Arborist does have ownership in the company that was engaged to complete the tree felling and removal. That State is aware of the circumstances of this engagement and is satisfied that no collusion or conflict of interest has occurred in this engagement.
The State does not agree with your claim that the engagement of the Arborist report by the developer has negatively influenced the report and should be thrown out. The developer had commissioned the report on behalf of the State as per the contractual arrangements with the State under the NBJP program. The scope of the report is clearly identified on page 3 of the report, which was developed between agreement from the State, Redlands City council and the Developer. The State is entirely satisfied that the Arborist has completed this report in an independent capacity. The State’s view is that any claim otherwise is unfounded and irresponsible.

Appointed Project Manager
The State has no contractual capacity to remove Jacques Winterburn from the project as he is a director of the company contracted to build the project, and has contractually been appointed as the Developer’s representative.
We have advised Mr Winterburn and his staff to not make any further contact directly with you.
We require you to ensure that all queries you have with the project in any capacity are to be directed through the appropriate channels put in place by the State. I require that all your correspondence must be directed to me in the first instance.

Please note, the State shares your concerns with minimising the impact on the Koala habitat and vegetation and as such, we are investigating the possibility of alternative design solutions for both the northern boundary wall construction type, to minimise impact on the root system for the Koala habitat tress and the provision for Koala friendly fencing.

I would like to reiterate that the project is progressing using the report findings as provided in the Landzone Arborist report. The State has accepted the findings and construction management methodology as outlined in this report and has accepted that this report was completed by a suitably qualified and experienced Arborist, who is registered member of the Queensland Arborist Association. The State will not enter into any further debate as to the validity of this report or its findings.

Furthermore, I welcome open discussion with you to help respond to any queries you have regarding koala habitat however, I will not enter into discussion or debate with you regarding the day to day workings and construction process at this site. I assure you that the State has engaged suitably qualified and experienced construction professionals to build this NBJP project, who will comply with the relevant work method practices applicable to this project. Please note I am to be used as the contact for you in all matters relating to the 6 Mary St site. Please do not direct any further correspondence to our town planning department or other departments in Project Services.

Regards,

<snip>
Principal Project Manager

Project Services
QUEENSLAND GOVERNMENT
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS

Eric Frei

Obtain the list and lets see it then.

I also draw to your attention to the fact that Adam Tom aka Treedoc wrote lies to Redland Council about me. Extremely concerning is also the fact that neither the QAA or RCC gave a shit and these clowns continue their rubbish.

Lies|QAA|Queensland Arboricultural Association

Obtain the list of RCC's arborists and lets see who is on it. They should be most happy to comply seeing it wasn't their recommended arborist that went into bat for their trees. Also unlike the secrecy act Brisbane City Council is protected by this council is not and this is public information.

Be interesting to see what RCC's selection criteria for arborists is, especially on the back of that trash report written and the back-flip the author made to the previous report of a gum tree close to the road.

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jmcg.insight.gardens

Save Mary Street

This is a small win. They are conceding somewhat. Keep plugging away, a small win is good, try to find out what it is they are considering and then try if it's a gain for the trees to get it implemented next. Best of luck.

Julie

Save Mary St

Not really a win for the trees. The cut that has been made is for an 800mm retaining wall, close to the trees. Therefore all roots have been severed. We were initially worried that the cut would reduce feeder roots and cause a slow death of the the trees. Now we are worried that the cut is so close to the trunks that major structural roots have obviously been severed and the trees will no longer be stable.
Arborist states that Australian Standards have been met and that the Critical Root Zone is unaffected.
My final words to Government were that I hoped that when the trees fail they fall onto State property not onto private property. We shall continue to log events and publish them.

Eric Frei

Tell me, did they hose this stuff onto the soil or on top of the mulch?

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Save Mary St

The liquid was hosed onto the mulch. It would have only touched the soil at the base of the tree trunks where we cleared the mulch.
Not all the area mulched was soaked - just small areas around each tree.
I scraped back the mulch to check the soil below - it was dry.

Eric Frei

More great work from Clowns Inc eh.

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jmcg.insight.gardens

must have thought the mulch needed a drink...................

Eric Frei

I visited the site today and had to see for myself the LIES going on.

The string line of the root cut for the retaining wall was still in place.

Do note that I carefully made measurements to the string line and TPZ fences.

Do note, as per the quote below I detected issues of fences and roads etc not being parallel which these CLOWNS omitted in their report.


Do note that the fencing that runs along the edge of the root cut IS NOT parallel with the boundary fence.

Distance from boundary fence to root cut on the western tree is only 2.7m and at the eastern two trees is only 3.8m with the TPZ fence sitting inside that as per pictures in post 68 above. That's another topographical error and omission .... these guys are real top shelf consultants eh.

The paperbark trees down the SW corner, well they'd be lucky to have a TPZ of 4xDBH for 3/4's of their circle. How is that Australian Standards? What a load of denial and utter bogus trash.

Do note that the compost tea that was watered ontop of the mulch was done 2 days after they mulched.

I think they do fit in with the current government. Must be hard for some dumb paper pusher to turn a blind eye so they collect their pay on Thursday, just doing their job poor ole public servant. Well, at least they get paid coz thousands of medical workers aren't due to govt incompetence. what a grand display, the govt and QAA together, a pigeon pair of fools, Australian Standards are being adhered to they say, only for the blind, deaf and dumb I say!

In bright pink below I have put in the line of root cut so you understand what they did in reality.

I estimate the root loss to be in the vicinity of 70% for these trees now.

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Treemo

Ouch, that's sad.

All you can do is document it, thoroughly, for other people and third parties to learn the lessons that were missed at the time. Lots and lots of photos, and now a visual diary of the potential decline.


That mulch is embarrassingly lazy, was it spread with a machine? Or were they unloading wheelbarrows against the trunks whilst 4 guys were leaning on rakes?


On the positive side, let's just hope, with a little luck, that they defy all odds, drop some branches (without killing anyone), and continue to survive.


Is soil injection recommended in that situation?

Slightly off topic: When I water new plantings, I always get the hose to the plant and fill the dam/water the immediate area whereas superiors would often state that I should just quickly spray from the truck and move on. To prove a point, I sprayed 3500L over an approximate 150m2 circle (large planting around a Euc of significance) by driving in circles around it and then getting out and checking the root zones of each mass-planted plant. They were all bone dry though the mulch had a nice deep, dark colour. Went and filled up the truck and watered the whole planting with a hose with about 500L and each plant was wet.

Eric Frei

3500L onto 150m2 of area equals 23.33mm of rainfall, and for an average 50mm to 75mm of mulch depth it's about what it takes to penetrate.

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Treemo

Yep, and it's a waste of resources, 3500L on 1 job plus refill and travel time to fill point, or 6 x 500L jobs. As you've pointed out, 3500L isn't much water when spread over an area which is why the HR trucks tend to carry 10000-15000L. I've seen small rivers from those guys watering turf from the truck.

To save time by spraying from a truck, potentially watering hydrophobic or compacted soil when you can be dumping 10-20L in the loosened, aerated area where newly planted trees need it and moving on makes a lot more sense to me.

Plus, one can never exactly control where spray from a truck will go, unless one has a water cannon but even then that creates a lot of run-off from what I've seen.

Eric Frei

This set up has a fully adjustable water cannon from within the cab. Position plus flow, the nozzel can go from fine spray to full on water like a fire hose, very good to work with. It can spray at a reasonable rate without washing mulch away to a distance of about 10m.





Down the Gold Coast used this hand held to water another tighter access area.



I put down the soil treatment first and hose in, mulch on top. Of course that is different to new plantings where you have a backfilled looser area to target watering.

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Treemo

What soil treatment in that example? Improving water penetration?

How much water per tree?

The biggest one I've done is a mix of 10 benjamina and macrophylla (from 4m to 7m perhaps) that were water cut out, transported and planted via tilt tray and we used Kelpak (seaweed concentrate) at about 1K each. The mounds built were about 5m diameter maybe, from memory.


Sorry for derailing thread.

Eric Frei

Soil treatment was a combination of kelp, mycorrhizae, trichoderma, silica, wetting agent, blood/bone, nitrogen and little bit of sugar.

Worked out to 5000L to get 50mm equivalent. Both sites gobbled the water up well. Often if the tree have been there for say 50 years plus and you add mulch you are already way ahead for what they were getting in the past. That large euc in the first 2 pics never looked better than when the developers left the site, a dang fine tree, healthier now than before development started. When you pull the mulch up the soil surface is a mat of fine hairy roots, lots of microbial activity and larger bugs already in there plus worms. A real good job done. The road next to the tree although new is replacement of an old bitumen one, and it's concrete slab on top, no digging with re-arranged heights for drains etc, re-engineered at considerable expense to ensure no adverse impact to the very large old euc unlike what you see in this thread from CLOWNS INC!

Big old euc like that at the bottom of a hill where water runs down to the tree, no kerb or drain so water could run freely unlike this Mary Street site. When the bitumen was scraped up whilst I watched and that close to the trunk we saw ..... NO ROOTS, none. We even had the vacuum digger there ready to do a root prune if need be but nothing found, we tried a few spots and all we got was 150mm deep of rock/rubble layer heavily compacted (about 40 years old that road was I think). So we just called it a day and laid super reinforced concrete on top. The other side of the tree there was no real reason to fence it, was sort of a little damp creek spot and that's where this big fella was drinking .... similar to this Mary Street site where CLOWNS INC reckon site slope/roots/drainage is all the same.

You do know of these threads eh.

Soil Aeration Experiments| Grade Changes| Compaction| Decompaction

Lazyman Soil Products| Know them? Use them?

Myth soil amendments

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Eric Frei

I doubt they did this near the paperbark trees that have some really tiny TPZ well under AS4970.

Also, from their own document.





So how did they fair? Remember that in their document they do state that only QAA or ISA members can do the work, so lets see how these "experts" performed.

The cut was made this morning, and there was no sign of any hession, peatmoss or care, and those roots are torn not cut, left to dry out. Backfill? Yeah right, after they build the wall maybe??? And the paperbarks, she'll be right, excavate away mate, right there where I'm pointing! Yeeeha, it's Queensland afterall, where chronies still have a future and the govt is blind.









Once again, I think QAA's new logo should be ....

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Save Mary St

I emailed QAA to ask what criteria they use to determine membership and how they deal with complaints against members as the QAA arborist employed by State for Mary St contradicted himself when reporting on TPZ.
I never received a reply.

Save Mary St

Here's a good example of how a complaint to a State Government department is handled. The email was obtained through RTI.

The complaint was made in relation to the cutting of tree roots by an excavator - contrary to the arborist report. See post #83 for the photos of the cut tree roots.

Only the close up of the roots was sent to the State Government dept, hence the reason for the doubt. But at no point was more evidence requested. Just deny it ever happened and imply the complaint is bogus.

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Eric Frei

Yeah, same stuff runs through councils and the QAA .... hence their new logo.



When a 100 people in a mass incident all see Virgin Mary in a tree then it must be true, for those who did not then they must be ostracised from the group.

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jmcg.insight.gardens

The part I find offensive in that letter is that Mr Villari suggests that no further replys be made to you. I wonder if that is legal? I wonder if that is a breach of their departments code of practice. I think it could well be.

Stinks it does.

They are not holding a court of law....., so they should, must, give you the benefit of a hearing of your complaint. They should ask for further verification from you and then if not forthcoming, then dismiss it. Problem is you have to be quite clear in photographic complaints, send some more in, they still have to deal with you, they can't just ignore a complaint, then if they did, you would have a case.

Bureaucracy at it's best( worst!)

My sympathies on all the work you have tried to do to protect those trees for it to come to nought.

jmcg.insight.gardens

Something like the 100th monkey myth, another myth taken by many people as gospel truth, started by C. Wilson, without any scientific backing, so many people believed it.

Well I'm happy not to be part of the mob

A bit like government departments really