HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist"

Therrin

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Arborist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you feel that the description, and the pictures, truly justify what an ARBORIST really is???

THIS IS THE PAGE THE WORLD IS SEEING, WHEN THEY LOOK UP "ARBORIST" ON THE LARGEST, MOST WIDELY USED USER-COMPOSED ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!!

Someone types "arborist" in Google, Yahoo, or any other search engine, and THIS is what they see!! Real Arborists need a TRUE global presence.

Are you actually comfortable or satisfied with that?? Let's join together and make a difference on this site, let's revamp it, put up some pictures of REAL arborists doing REAL tree work, get rid of the untrue information, and tell the world what ARBORISTS really are!

I feel this is a project we all should partake in as Wikipedia can be edited by any inividual, and that coming at it as an entire site (forum) we'll have much more effect.
There's 2 or 3 people running the whole show, all Americans, and the entire page has an American slant. Let's get a host of worldwide arborists in there. There is no mention of procedures or certs given by international arborist, and besides that, alot of the information is outdated, invalid, narrow-sighted, and doesn't appear to be written by any "TRUE" arborists.

The first picture is alright,

The second picture is horrid!! We're showing an arborist as someone who wears no helmet, no chaps, no eye protection, leaves stub cuts everywhere!
Is this what we want the world to see as a true arborist?
The third picture is too far away to see what's really happening, it's the same guy, nothing special is being shown, no rigging... let's get some new people and some new up here!

The fourth picture is some landscaping nursery guy pruning a 10 foot tree! There's a 'token' chainsaw lying in the picture, with a bar 20" longer than the dbh of the tree.

The fifth picture show's some guy in an auditorium... forget this pansy stuff, let's show people who are using RIGGING! Show some of AceMaster's stuff, doing craning operations on HUGE eucs, show some precision felling, show Quercus using his gear to prune something without using gaffs.

Let's show and explain that arborists are CLIMBERS! That they can do tree work without using gaffs, that they are familiar with a wide range of equipment that includes bucket trucks, but when it all comes down to it, they can still get in the tree themself an actually do the work!


Also, seperate pages should be made for "ARBORIST" and "CONSULTING ARBORIST", which give the complete outlook of the two, and at least one of the pages telling how they're different types of professions.

Eric Frei

I commend you on this.

That's the world's view of an arborist.

For the record, I've ripped the pics in order so we have our own editing history of an arborist at Wikipedia. When push comes to shove there'll be no BSing this forum or what we did.

Look at this sentence.

Why is that even in there? When was the last time either one of those 3 did aerial rescue, rigging, complex tree climbing, large and hazardous tree felling etc? My goodness, we wonder why our profession treats us like some lawn man or gardener and here's our public face reinforcing that.

Here's a copy of the pics (in order) on the current page, I didn't download the full sized pics (when you click on them over there)











Now we need to think carefully of what 5 pics need to show. I think 1 of the picks has to be those large tree transplants Sean Freeman does. That my friend is more than a nurseryman planting a flower.

Pics I see needed.

Transplant

Pruning spurless at height (deadwooding maybe)

Removal with spurs

Crane/tower combo

Reports/assessments

Now look at this line

Maybe over there but over here there's no multiple choice sit down test for an Arb qualification at all and BMCA might not stack against L5's and L6's here? who knows. The world is bigger than USA though.

Yes, great project, I think we should fix that place up.

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TREE-SURFER

I fully agree with this one. Quite a task though, re-writing the whole page. Posting pictures of real arborists AND Tree surgeons, as it states that the two are the same. Frankly, I disagree with that. A tree surgeon is always answerable to an arborist. My company name might suggest that I am an Arborist, but 'The Aerial Tree Surgeon' didn't quite have the same ring to it. I tell people, that I am a Tree Surgeon, not an Arborist and that there is a difference. I deal with trees and their health, I don't deal with shrubs, bushes or plants.

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The Aerial Arborist

Isle of Man Tree Surgeon| All Aspects of Tree Work

What experts say about TOPPING

Therrin

Tree Surfer,

By all means, start a seperate page for "Tree Surgeons", and we can address it, and link it from the main Arborist page.

This is what I mean, people who aren't Arborists create the page, muddle up all the definitions, and then leave it for the working public to sort out.
From what I can tell, we need to have seperate pages so far for:
Arborist
Consulting Arborist
Tree Surgeon

If there are any other's you all can think of, which are *different* from being an "arborist" but tend to be lumped into the same group by uneducated people, please submit them to this thread, as well as coming up with ideas and solutions for the creation of those pages!

Eric Frei

Climbers.

Or some call them climbing arborists.

Some call them tree climbers.

Heck, I dunno, 99% of arborists here climb, in other words if you're an arborist you can climb but dont have to if you dont want to or get old ... then you get a bucket truck.

But there has to be mention of climbing especially if the USA now has a cert for it. I think that page should just have a heading further down with it.

Also there's utility arborists, same ... down the page a new heading for it.

I think the same with the others Therrin, on the same page but just headings for them. And then the page will be bigger and we can have 10 pics relevant to the discussion.

Arborist
Tree Surgeon
Climbing Arborist
Utility Arborist
Consulting Arborist

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Therrin

I'm not so sure that we should have advertising links to businesses on the Wiki page. Afterall, people want to know what one *IS*. It's hardly fair for all the world to look something up and be directed to only one or two people's sites.

Think of it, you don't open Encyclopedia Britannica and look under "firearms" and find a URL for a single local gunsmith.

I think the site should be purely informational. The rest of the internet, and your personal webpages, forums, chat rooms etc are advertising venues. Why let one or two people have all the attention? Photo credit is one thing, but unless you're going to set up an Advertising section, with anyone who wants to put their site in there, personal sites should be removed (unless maybe of course a REAL Arborist cert can be shown)

If I'm not mistaken, over in Australia you guys have to go to school for YEARS! You know ALL about the trees that you're going to be working with before you start working on them, and it takes at least a Level 3 cert before you can even be *called* an Arborist. Nothing of this is mentioned.

On doing some research, it shows that a true Arborist should be familiar with:

Fell Small trees
Operate and maintain chainsaws
Operate machinery and equipment
Provide information on plants and their culture
Co-ordinate worksite activities
Carry out workplace OHS procedures
Maintain and monitor environmental work practices
Undertake standard climbing technique
Fell large trees
Implement a tree maintenance program
Implement a tree pruning program
Remove trees in confined spaces
Perform specialist ammenity pruning
Undertake complex tree climbing
Implement a tree protection program
Sample soils and analysis results
Undertake aerial rescue
Plan and develop a business website
Develop and manage a chemical use strategy
Provide specialist advice to clients
Prepare estimates, quotes and tenders
Prepare reports
Develope a strategy for the management of large pests
Manage plant health
Monitor and manage soils

Eric Frei

UK has some qualifications too, UK arborists can you show or explain some of the qualifications you guys have to get.

I believe you have to get a ticket to feed a chipper.

Canadian utility arborists have to do a trade, it there anyone here who knows of that and what the qualifications are called etc.

European's, you have also your own ticket system, can you guys expand on it.

At least we can say something like ....

I think that would clear up some of the confusion and show the differences of what is really out there.

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TREE-SURFER

British Arboricultural School of Excellence

The above link shows only some of the necessary qualifications for the UK.

This PDF gives a bit more info about the UK Requisites.

Attached Files

leaners_info_sheet_chainsaws_and_related_operations.pdf (118.3 KB, 445 views)

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The Aerial Arborist

Isle of Man Tree Surgeon| All Aspects of Tree Work

What experts say about TOPPING

osb_mail

Therrin my Definition of of a arborist in short terms is someone who works with living trees .Your not going to get a heart surgeon to do a boob job and he has probably never done a boob job but both are consider doctors??

osb_mail

Oh yeah remember not all doctors(Arborist) do safe or healthy things for people (trees) but still they are doctors .

Therrin

So anyone who simply runs a nursery, as a business, "works with living trees" but don't have any thing to do necessarily with tree care. However, according to your description, they would still be classified as an "arborist" not a tree-salesman.

Is this correct?

What about rigging dismantles of dead trees? These are not arborists?

I think (personally) that's an extremely shallow definition, but I think there's probably lots of people out there who think along similar lines. We need to educate them.

Treelore

In the US you have 2 definitions. and they are clarified in the z133 an arborist as stated above is anyone who works on living trees but there is a clarification that a CERTIFIED arborist is one who has demonstrated and proven to a panel of peers all of the things you outlined Therrin.

Eric Frei

Bingo, what any who is looking up arborists needs to know is what sort of arborist it is they need.

For example, "I better get a climbing arborist as the tree needs climbing".

Or, " I just need a consulting arborist as the council said a report has to be submitted for the tree".

You could say they're all doctors however you cant say they're all arborists.

What you have is gardeners, horticulturists, landscapers, nurserymen etc. No way would I think a nurseryman is an arborist.

The common theme they can share is horticulture ... not arboriculture.

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Treelore

Well siad Ekka however the clause in America that we don't have here is qualified V certified. Qualified extends any courtesy to a man working on tree material Certified suggests passing a test. Different in many ways from our laws but similar to nursing whereby a degree can be completed but a further certification must be aquired. This enables a BODY like Q build to monitor further learning. Which I totally adhere to. We as professionals are like vets... we work on many different types of lives and yet in no way are asked to show proof of our understanding of said subjects. Closer scrutiny must be paid by a singular governing authority to control our work methods as with carpentry, nursing, electricians, etc. We have no such body as yet so no controlling factor of work methodology. hence lax laws

osb_mail

Therrin I would guess you have never worked in a nursery that grows trees if you did you would Know nurseryman graft,plant ,fertilize,water,prune ,spray, root prune .Just because you are Arborist does not mean you climb trees or know how to rig a big dead tree . Just cause a guy knows how to rig does not mean he know anything about living trees .

osb_mail

. I not talking about tree salesman but a tree- salesman better know a lot about trees and should be able to give instruction on how to plant and how to prune (train) a tree in its early years .

Eric Frei

See this is the problem and we need to clearly define both in Wiki.

However, it may well be a USA anomaly as here, you would have to be versed in both to be an arborist however the nursery man would not be versed in rigging, chainsaw etc so is not an arborist ... very clear difference here. The nurseryman would be a horticulturist not arborist.

Hence why that page needs fixing because it is written as though USA is the only place arborists exist when in fact it's a global occupation and in other countries clearly defined to the difference between a nurseryman and arborist.

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Therrin

Of course I haven't worked in a nursery! What kind of person do you think I am???

On a more serious note, I guess you have never been to large post-construction areas after the building process is finished. There are large companies out here who work between the nursery and the end location whose only function is to keep trees alive (watering them) between the nursery and the clients house. Hence my mention of "tree salesman".
This person would fit the bill of "working with live trees" but in no other form whatsoever would he qualify as an arborist!!

I'm all too well aware that "nurserymen" nurture trees on their way to maturity, no complaints there. I just don't think they deserve in any fashion to be called "arborists". That's why we call them "nurserymen".

You don't take the nurses in Labor&Delivery in a hospital and call them doctors do you?

osb_mail

Websters defines a arborist ,a specialist in the care and maintenance of trees.

osb_mail

Hey whats wrong with working in nursery . I worked in nursery for 3 years was a great learning experience I guess at the time I would not have considered my self a arborist but a nurseryman . I feel nurseryman can fall under the title arborist I would like to go to nursery and ask about buying a tree and have the desk person say hey like me page the arborist and he (she) will help you with your selection . Therrin I dont like your laughing smiley after talk of nursery . Not to put down any who climbs prunes removes trees (which I also do ) but there many skilled climbers in my area, but only a few skilled grafter in the US these guys are not anything to laugh at they very smart and very skilled very knowledgeable about trees .I have done some grafting but not very skilled at all.I DON T KNOW MAYBE I AM JUST STIRRING DUST WITH GUYS .

osb_mail

I have been on many large post construction sites hospitals, schools ,factory buildings ,store ,malls ,large residential jobs being the lead install person . Also watering trees does take some skill .Therrin bet if you were on my install crew you would be out there spraying the foliage on a tree on sunny 95 degree day .

Therrin

Someone's got their panties in a wad....<sigh>

First, the obvious answer is "That'd cause them to be burnt and sun-damaged."
Why must you insult me? I'm not an idiot, I just said that nurserymen aren't arborists. You don't have to turn to personal attacks because of it. *I* didn't know you were a "nurseryman". Why must you stoop to such a childish response?


Besides, having seen what they did in my parent's developement area in bakersfield, there is obviously different ways of doing things, I can only say that if you do your work as adequately as you sound, my hat is off to you The things done here are wretched, just because it looks great once the house is in, and 3 or 4 years later, everyone is dealing with problems of improper tree type, placement, etc...

Tree-sellers / nurserymen have their own equivelant of "hacks" just like Arborists do.

Try to keep on topic though... the definition of an arborist has nothing to do with me spraying leaves in 95 degree heat, and then sneaking over and pouring roundup in your coffee while you arent watching.

Therrin

Ekka,

I'm going to start putting together a Instructional post on how to edit Wiki pages, so that TW people know what their getting into when they go and try to start changing things over there.



To everyone else, start submitting photos into this thread that you think should be put up on the Wiki Arborist page, or any of the other Wiki pages that we've mentioned which need to be made.

We'll can either select a few out of the group, or vote on them if you all want.

bigshea13

well said. this could turn into a huge battle and end up nowhere

newguy18

Okay i read wikipedia and this whole thread and even though some might say i'm wrong this is my defenition of an arborist.


1.has to be certified.
2.knows how to properly prune any size of tree.
3.knows how to repair hack or storm damage to trees.
4.is knowledgable in the use of pesticiedes,fertilizers,etc.
5.knows how to do technical take downs of dead and alive trees.
6.is able to sell his service to the public[salesman].
7.knows about the liabiltiy laws to keep law suits down to a minimum or non existant.
8.knows how to manage the root system by irrigation,root pruning,,etc.
9.continues his study on trees and proper tree care as long as he owns or works in the tree care industry,[seriously this is the most important thing you can do for your career.]
10.Sorry Mario but i don't believe a gardener is an arborist unless he studies trees,proper tree care and gets certified.

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old schooler

bigshea13

gotta disagree with ya there. you dont have to climb and rig to be an arborist. someone who grows grafts,plants,fertilizes ect is definatly an arborist. their spectrum of the field is just as important as yours. if they dont grow em you cant care for as many of em. im sure there is a wealth of info about young trees in their early stages that most cert arbs dont know

osb_mail

Webster definition of horticulture -the science and art of growing fruits, vegetables, flowers, or ornamental plants Webster definition of arborculture-the cultivation of trees and shrubs especially for ornamental purposes Webster def of cultivation- the act or art of cultivating or tilling Webster def of cultivating-1: to prepare or prepare and use for the raising of crops; also : to loosen or break up the soil about (growing plants)2 a: to foster the growth of <cultivate vegetables> b: culture 2a c: to improve by labor, care, or study : refine <cultivate the mind> .So maybe I am starting the great debate here but to Webster dictionary is says nothing about climbing , rigging ,felling of trees I am not saying that these are not big part of some arborist job but they seem to be talking about a nurseryman as being a arborist . Hey Therinn sorry about the bashing earlier I have just seen to many people spraying down a trees leave when they water .Does anyone have Shigo definition .I let some borrow my Modern Arborculture book . Hey I would just like my spell check not to say Arborist is miss spelled .

osb_mail

Newguy there is no way you are going to get me to agree with you 1 ,6,and part of 10 and I am debating on 5 . On 1 there is no reason someone has to be certified to be Arborist ,I am a Certified Arborist.On 6 you dont have to be a salesperson to work with trees not everybody that works with trees is a salesperson some just do the labor . I do think that anyone selling should have a in depth understanding of trees .Never mind on 10 I agree with you gardeners are not Arborist .My 85 year old grandma is gardener she grows tomatoes ,potatoes ,carrots ,but if she was growing a garden full of trees than to me she would be Arborist .Not really sure about the take down thing most Doctor dont have to know how to kill or remove there patients .So does Arborist need to know how to do take downs .Most doctors try to keep there patients alive .But if you call me and want a living tree removed I am sure will be there for a estimate. Newguy I am kind of picking apart your post but I dont mean it in harmful way just letting you how I feel.
Oh yeah not related to new guys post but do guys think a Arborist has to make profit . I mean know if they want to eat and all that . I was just thinking of a doctor I worked for one time he showed me a 200 year old oak he dead wood pruned and a rope swing he installed on a large walnut tree both were pretty good work granted I was not there to see the projects go down but both looked pro .

Eric Frei

Here if you call yourself an arborist you better be qualified or you'd be imposing as one.

Cant really call yourself anything till you got the cert in my book. Can you call yourself other trade titles without the quals just coz you been doing the job? Hmmm, gets tricky. I know I read somewhere in a case where the tree guy claimed to be an arborist and the judge got pissed off with him coz it was exposed he was not and tried to make out he was ... was a topping job he got busted on or something.

Wiki is there to help the consumer know what types of arborists there are in various countries to.

Here if you are not qualified then you are a tree lopper. And tree loppers who try to pass themselves off as arborists would soon be in for bad news. I also heard around the traps here that you have to be Level3 to call yourself an arborist here.

So USA guys, what arborist certs do you have over there?

ISA Certified Arborist
ISA Certified Tree Worker
ISA Certified Utility Arborist
ISA BCMA

We also need to know what each one of those studies or what their "modules" are.

That will help consumers decide what sort of arborist to seek out. Like will the ISA Tree Worker know the same about tree care as the Certified Arborist.

You guys need to get very specific.

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Treelore

There is also a state certification for every state in America which is usually a more localized test showing you know plant species and vectors in a given area. Something I think needs to be adopted here.
Ithink the definition needs to give some weight to the fact that an Arborist specializes upon the impact of man and the urban area on trees. We are called to study how urban trees and man interact. Otherwise we would just be foresters.