HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist"

Therrin · 14th February 2008, 02:28 AM

Unregistered, Go to :
Arborist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you feel that the description, and the pictures, truly justify what an ARBORIST really is???

THIS IS THE PAGE THE WORLD IS SEEING, WHEN THEY LOOK UP "ARBORIST" ON THE LARGEST, MOST WIDELY USED USER-COMPOSED ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!!

Someone types "arborist" in Google, Yahoo, or any other search engine, and THIS is what they see!!

Real Arborists need a TRUE global presence.

Are you actually comfortable or satisfied with that?? Let's join together and make a difference on this site, let's revamp it, put up some pictures of REAL arborists doing REAL tree work, get rid of the untrue information, and tell the world what ARBORISTS really are!

I feel this is a project we all should partake in as Wikipedia can be edited by any inividual, and that coming at it as an entire site (forum) we'll have much more effect.
There's 2 or 3 people running the whole show, all Americans, and the entire page has an American slant. Let's get a host of worldwide arborists in there. There is no mention of procedures or certs given by international arborist, and besides that, alot of the information is outdated, invalid, narrow-sighted, and doesn't appear to be written by any "TRUE" arborists.

The first picture is alright,

The second picture is horrid!! We're showing an arborist as someone who wears no helmet, no chaps, no eye protection, leaves stub cuts everywhere!
Is this what we want the world to see as a true arborist?
The third picture is too far away to see what's really happening, it's the same guy, nothing special is being shown, no rigging... let's get some new people and some new up here!

The fourth picture is some landscaping nursery guy pruning a 10 foot tree! There's a 'token' chainsaw lying in the picture, with a bar 20" longer than the dbh of the tree.

The fifth picture show's some guy in an auditorium... forget this pansy stuff, let's show people who are using RIGGING! Show some of AceMaster's stuff, doing craning operations on HUGE eucs, show some precision felling, show Quercus using his gear to prune something without using gaffs.

Let's show and explain that arborists are CLIMBERS! That they can do tree work without using gaffs, that they are familiar with a wide range of equipment that includes bucket trucks, but when it all comes down to it, they can still get in the tree themself an actually do the work!

Also, seperate pages should be made for "ARBORIST" and "CONSULTING ARBORIST", which give the complete outlook of the two, and at least one of the pages telling how they're different types of professions.

Ekka · 14th February 2008, 03:36 AM

I commend you on this.

That's the world's view of an arborist.

For the record, I've ripped the pics in order so we have our own editing history of an arborist at Wikipedia. When push comes to shove there'll be no BSing this forum or what we did.

Look at this sentence.

Quote:

Closely related careers include landscapers, tree farmers, and nurserymen. Those professions are closely related because each one utilizes much of the same technology, education and training.

Why is that even in there? When was the last time either one of those 3 did aerial rescue, rigging, complex tree climbing, large and hazardous tree felling etc? My goodness, we wonder why our profession treats us like some lawn man or gardener and here's our public face reinforcing that.

Here's a copy of the pics (in order) on the current page, I didn't download the full sized pics (when you click on them over there)

Now we need to think carefully of what 5 pics need to show. I think 1 of the picks has to be those large tree transplants Sean Freeman does. That my friend is more than a nurseryman planting a flower.

Pics I see needed.

Transplant

Pruning spurless at height (deadwooding maybe)

Removal with spurs

Crane/tower combo

Reports/assessments

Now look at this line

Quote:

and the most difficult credential to achieve; the Board Certified Master Arborist (BCMA).

Maybe over there but over here there's no multiple choice sit down test for an Arb qualification at all and BMCA might not stack against L5's and L6's here? who knows. The world is bigger than USA though.

Yes, great project, I think we should fix that place up.

TREE-SURFER · 14th February 2008, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I commend you on this.

Yes, great project, I think we should fix that place up.

I fully agree with this one. Quite a task though, re-writing the whole page. Posting pictures of real arborists AND Tree surgeons, as it states that the two are the same. Frankly, I disagree with that. A tree surgeon is always answerable to an arborist. My company name might suggest that I am an Arborist, but 'The Aerial Tree Surgeon' didn't quite have the same ring to it. I tell people, that I am a Tree Surgeon, not an Arborist and that there is a difference. I deal with trees and their health, I don't deal with shrubs, bushes or plants.

Therrin · 14th February 2008, 05:59 AM

Tree Surfer,

By all means, start a seperate page for "Tree Surgeons", and we can address it, and link it from the main Arborist page.

This is what I mean, people who aren't Arborists create the page, muddle up all the definitions, and then leave it for the working public to sort out.
From what I can tell, we need to have seperate pages so far for:
Arborist
Consulting Arborist
Tree Surgeon

If there are any other's you all can think of, which are *different* from being an "arborist" but tend to be lumped into the same group by uneducated people, please submit them to this thread, as well as coming up with ideas and solutions for the creation of those pages!

Ekka · 14th February 2008, 06:15 AM

Climbers.

Or some call them climbing arborists.

Some call them tree climbers.

Heck, I dunno, 99% of arborists here climb, in other words if you're an arborist you can climb but dont have to if you dont want to or get old ... then you get a bucket truck.

But there has to be mention of climbing especially if the USA now has a cert for it. I think that page should just have a heading further down with it.

Also there's utility arborists, same ... down the page a new heading for it.

I think the same with the others Therrin, on the same page but just headings for them. And then the page will be bigger and we can have 10 pics relevant to the discussion.

Arborist
Tree Surgeon
Climbing Arborist
Utility Arborist
Consulting Arborist

Therrin · 14th February 2008, 06:34 AM

I'm not so sure that we should have advertising links to businesses on the Wiki page. Afterall, people want to know what one *IS*. It's hardly fair for all the world to look something up and be directed to only one or two people's sites.

Think of it, you don't open Encyclopedia Britannica and look under "firearms" and find a URL for a single local gunsmith.

I think the site should be purely informational. The rest of the internet, and your personal webpages, forums, chat rooms etc are advertising venues. Why let one or two people have all the attention? Photo credit is one thing, but unless you're going to set up an Advertising section, with anyone who wants to put their site in there, personal sites should be removed (unless maybe of course a REAL Arborist cert can be shown)

If I'm not mistaken, over in Australia you guys have to go to school for YEARS! You know ALL about the trees that you're going to be working with before you start working on them, and it takes at least a Level 3 cert before you can even be *called* an Arborist. Nothing of this is mentioned.

On doing some research, it shows that a true Arborist should be familiar with:

Fell Small trees
Operate and maintain chainsaws
Operate machinery and equipment
Provide information on plants and their culture
Co-ordinate worksite activities
Carry out workplace OHS procedures
Maintain and monitor environmental work practices
Undertake standard climbing technique
Fell large trees
Implement a tree maintenance program
Implement a tree pruning program
Remove trees in confined spaces
Perform specialist ammenity pruning
Undertake complex tree climbing
Implement a tree protection program
Sample soils and analysis results
Undertake aerial rescue
Plan and develop a business website
Develop and manage a chemical use strategy
Provide specialist advice to clients
Prepare estimates, quotes and tenders
Prepare reports
Develope a strategy for the management of large pests
Manage plant health
Monitor and manage soils

Ekka · 14th February 2008, 12:30 PM

UK has some qualifications too, UK arborists can you show or explain some of the qualifications you guys have to get.

I believe you have to get a ticket to feed a chipper.

Canadian utility arborists have to do a trade, it there anyone here who knows of that and what the qualifications are called etc.

European's, you have also your own ticket system, can you guys expand on it.

At least we can say something like ....

Quote:

Arborists are required to undertake years of specialised training, beside theory practical skills are taught and must be displayed for an arborist to gain their qualifications. Subjects in Australia include .....

In Europe .....

In UK ....

In USA ....

I think that would clear up some of the confusion and show the differences of what is really out there.

TREE-SURFER · 14th February 2008, 02:08 PM

British Arboricultural School of Excellence

The above link shows only some of the necessary qualifications for the UK.

This PDF gives a bit more info about the UK Requisites.

osb_mail · 14th February 2008, 07:27 PM

Therrin my Definition of of a arborist in short terms is someone who works with living trees .Your not going to get a heart surgeon to do a boob job and he has probably never done a boob job but both are consider doctors??

osb_mail · 14th February 2008, 07:37 PM

Oh yeah remember not all doctors(Arborist) do safe or healthy things for people (trees) but still they are doctors .

Therrin · 14th February 2008, 11:27 PM

So anyone who simply runs a nursery, as a business, "works with living trees" but don't have any thing to do necessarily with tree care. However, according to your description, they would still be classified as an "arborist" not a tree-salesman.

Is this correct?

What about rigging dismantles of dead trees? These are not arborists?

I think (personally) that's an extremely shallow definition, but I think there's probably lots of people out there who think along similar lines. We need to educate them.

Treelore · 14th February 2008, 11:36 PM

In the US you have 2 definitions. and they are clarified in the z133 an arborist as stated above is anyone who works on living trees but there is a clarification that a CERTIFIED arborist is one who has demonstrated and proven to a panel of peers all of the things you outlined Therrin.

Ekka · 15th February 2008, 01:58 AM

Bingo, what any who is looking up arborists needs to know is what sort of arborist it is they need.

For example, "I better get a climbing arborist as the tree needs climbing".

Or, " I just need a consulting arborist as the council said a report has to be submitted for the tree".

You could say they're all doctors however you cant say they're all arborists.

What you have is gardeners, horticulturists, landscapers, nurserymen etc. No way would I think a nurseryman is an arborist.

The common theme they can share is horticulture ... not arboriculture.

Treelore · 15th February 2008, 03:13 AM

Well siad Ekka however the clause in America that we don't have here is qualified V certified. Qualified extends any courtesy to a man working on tree material Certified suggests passing a test. Different in many ways from our laws but similar to nursing whereby a degree can be completed but a further certification must be aquired. This enables a BODY like Q build to monitor further learning. Which I totally adhere to. We as professionals are like vets... we work on many different types of lives and yet in no way are asked to show proof of our understanding of said subjects. Closer scrutiny must be paid by a singular governing authority to control our work methods as with carpentry, nursing, electricians, etc. We have no such body as yet so no controlling factor of work methodology. hence lax laws

14th February 2008, 02:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Unregistered, Go to : Arborist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Do you feel that the description, and the pictures, truly justify what an ARBORIST really is??? THIS IS THE PAGE THE WORLD IS SEEING, WHEN THEY LOOK UP "ARBORIST" ON THE LARGEST, MOST WIDELY USED USER-COMPOSED ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!! Someone types "arborist" in Google, Yahoo, or any other search engine, and THIS is what they see!! Real Arborists need a TRUE global presence. Are you actually comfortable or satisfied with that?? Let's join together and make a difference on this site, let's revamp it, put up some pictures of REAL arborists doing REAL tree work, get rid of the untrue information, and tell the world what ARBORISTS really are! I feel this is a project we all should partake in as Wikipedia can be edited by any inividual, and that coming at it as an entire site (forum) we'll have much more effect. There's 2 or 3 people running the whole show, all Americans, and the entire page has an American slant. Let's get a host of worldwide arborists in there. There is no mention of procedures or certs given by international arborist, and besides that, alot of the information is outdated, invalid, narrow-sighted, and doesn't appear to be written by any "TRUE" arborists. The first picture is alright, The second picture is horrid!! We're showing an arborist as someone who wears no helmet, no chaps, no eye protection, leaves stub cuts everywhere! Is this what we want the world to see as a true arborist? The third picture is too far away to see what's really happening, it's the same guy, nothing special is being shown, no rigging... let's get some new people and some new up here! The fourth picture is some landscaping nursery guy pruning a 10 foot tree! There's a 'token' chainsaw lying in the picture, with a bar 20" longer than the dbh of the tree. The fifth picture show's some guy in an auditorium... forget this pansy stuff, let's show people who are using RIGGING! Show some of AceMaster's stuff, doing craning operations on HUGE eucs, show some precision felling, show Quercus using his gear to prune something without using gaffs. Let's show and explain that arborists are CLIMBERS! That they can do tree work without using gaffs, that they are familiar with a wide range of equipment that includes bucket trucks, but when it all comes down to it, they can still get in the tree themself an actually do the work! Also, seperate pages should be made for "ARBORIST" and "CONSULTING ARBORIST", which give the complete outlook of the two, and at least one of the pages telling how they're different types of professions. Last edited by Therrin : 14th February 2008 at 03:10 AM.

14th February 2008, 05:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Tree Surfer, By all means, start a seperate page for "Tree Surgeons", and we can address it, and link it from the main Arborist page. This is what I mean, people who aren't Arborists create the page, muddle up all the definitions, and then leave it for the working public to sort out. From what I can tell, we need to have seperate pages so far for: Arborist Consulting Arborist Tree Surgeon If there are any other's you all can think of, which are different from being an "arborist" but tend to be lumped into the same group by uneducated people, please submit them to this thread, as well as coming up with ideas and solutions for the creation of those pages!

14th February 2008, 06:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,916	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Climbers. Or some call them climbing arborists. Some call them tree climbers. Heck, I dunno, 99% of arborists here climb, in other words if you're an arborist you can climb but dont have to if you dont want to or get old ... then you get a bucket truck. But there has to be mention of climbing especially if the USA now has a cert for it. I think that page should just have a heading further down with it. Also there's utility arborists, same ... down the page a new heading for it. I think the same with the others Therrin, on the same page but just headings for them. And then the page will be bigger and we can have 10 pics relevant to the discussion. Arborist Tree Surgeon Climbing Arborist Utility Arborist Consulting Arborist __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

14th February 2008, 06:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" I'm not so sure that we should have advertising links to businesses on the Wiki page. Afterall, people want to know what one IS. It's hardly fair for all the world to look something up and be directed to only one or two people's sites. Think of it, you don't open Encyclopedia Britannica and look under "firearms" and find a URL for a single local gunsmith. I think the site should be purely informational. The rest of the internet, and your personal webpages, forums, chat rooms etc are advertising venues. Why let one or two people have all the attention? Photo credit is one thing, but unless you're going to set up an Advertising section, with anyone who wants to put their site in there, personal sites should be removed (unless maybe of course a REAL Arborist cert can be shown) If I'm not mistaken, over in Australia you guys have to go to school for YEARS! You know ALL about the trees that you're going to be working with before you start working on them, and it takes at least a Level 3 cert before you can even be called an Arborist. Nothing of this is mentioned. On doing some research, it shows that a true Arborist should be familiar with: Fell Small trees Operate and maintain chainsaws Operate machinery and equipment Provide information on plants and their culture Co-ordinate worksite activities Carry out workplace OHS procedures Maintain and monitor environmental work practices Undertake standard climbing technique Fell large trees Implement a tree maintenance program Implement a tree pruning program Remove trees in confined spaces Perform specialist ammenity pruning Undertake complex tree climbing Implement a tree protection program Sample soils and analysis results Undertake aerial rescue Plan and develop a business website Develop and manage a chemical use strategy Provide specialist advice to clients Prepare estimates, quotes and tenders Prepare reports Develope a strategy for the management of large pests Manage plant health Monitor and manage soils

14th February 2008, 07:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 201	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Therrin my Definition of of a arborist in short terms is someone who works with living trees .Your not going to get a heart surgeon to do a boob job and he has probably never done a boob job but both are consider doctors??

14th February 2008, 07:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 201	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Oh yeah remember not all doctors(Arborist) do safe or healthy things for people (trees) but still they are doctors .

14th February 2008, 11:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,273	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" So anyone who simply runs a nursery, as a business, "works with living trees" but don't have any thing to do necessarily with tree care. However, according to your description, they would still be classified as an "arborist" not a tree-salesman. Is this correct? What about rigging dismantles of dead trees? These are not arborists? I think (personally) that's an extremely shallow definition, but I think there's probably lots of people out there who think along similar lines. We need to educate them.

14th February 2008, 11:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 112	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" In the US you have 2 definitions. and they are clarified in the z133 an arborist as stated above is anyone who works on living trees but there is a clarification that a CERTIFIED arborist is one who has demonstrated and proven to a panel of peers all of the things you outlined Therrin.

15th February 2008, 01:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,916	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Bingo, what any who is looking up arborists needs to know is what sort of arborist it is they need. For example, "I better get a climbing arborist as the tree needs climbing". Or, " I just need a consulting arborist as the council said a report has to be submitted for the tree". You could say they're all doctors however you cant say they're all arborists. What you have is gardeners, horticulturists, landscapers, nurserymen etc. No way would I think a nurseryman is an arborist. The common theme they can share is horticulture ... not arboriculture. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

15th February 2008, 03:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
Treelore Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 112	Re: HELP!! - Wikipedia Definition of "Arborist" Well siad Ekka however the clause in America that we don't have here is qualified V certified. Qualified extends any courtesy to a man working on tree material Certified suggests passing a test. Different in many ways from our laws but similar to nursing whereby a degree can be completed but a further certification must be aquired. This enables a BODY like Q build to monitor further learning. Which I totally adhere to. We as professionals are like vets... we work on many different types of lives and yet in no way are asked to show proof of our understanding of said subjects. Closer scrutiny must be paid by a singular governing authority to control our work methods as with carpentry, nursing, electricians, etc. We have no such body as yet so no controlling factor of work methodology. hence lax laws