God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak?

Eric Frei · 25th April 2009, 09:21 PM

BBC NEWS | England | Somerset | Dispute takes root over oak tree

Quote:

For 200 years, it has stood serenely at the heart of a small Somerset town.

But now the gnarled oak tree in Crewkerne has found itself at the centre of a row over whether it should be chopped down.

At one stage, 100 protesters gathered around the 82ft (25m) high tree to save it as contractors arrived to topple it.

Campaigners fear that while they may have won that battle, the oak remains still in peril.

But why is such a notable tree under threat?

Originally, Crewkerne Town Council said it needed to be felled to make way for a leisure centre.

Quote:

A fence has now been erected around the tree which the council claims is to warn people of the danger.

The campaigners are now pinning their hopes on Prince Charles. As patron of the Tree Registry, the group hope he can step in and save it by adding it to the register.

Sean Freeman · 25th April 2009, 10:37 PM

This story has been running for a while in other fora..here's a synopsis:

Here are the minutes of the Town Council:

Quote:

HENHAYES
08/09
(a) To Consider the Quotations to Fell the Lucombe Oak Tree

Mr. Phillips the writer of the original report was welcomed to the Committee and asked to comment on further information received. In regard to Mr. Hutchings offer to take a core sample from the trunk, Mr. Phillips was of the opinion this action would probably not be beneficial as the decay was below ground level. On the question of the presence of birds and bats Mr. Phillips said this should be addressed by the contractor. He recommended removal of the tree.

A letter had been received from Phil Poulton SSDC’s Arborist concurring with Mr. Phillip’s observations and supporting the felling of the tree.

Cllr. Best said the recommendation received to fell the tree could not be ignored in terms of the Council’s insurance cover.

After further discussion it was AGREED the Lucombe Oak tree be felled as soon as possible and that the quotation submitted by ArborTech be accepted at a cost of £1,980 + VAT.

Here is a slightly older report:

Old oak still for the chop (From Chard & Ilminster News) (there’s a picture too)

A vid put on youtube by Bryn I think;

YouTube - The campaign to save the Lucombe Oak at Henhayes Crewkerne

http://tinyurl.com/ccw6h4

Quote:

The reports led the council's insurance company, Norwich Union, to advise that the tree should come down, with police help if necessary, warning that councillors could be sued in the event of an accident.

Cllr Hilary Leamon said: "If we cut this tree and we cut off some of the limbs and chop it up, what is the point? I am sorry to say a dead tree is a dead tree. If you look at the leaves from the Waitrose side it is definitely dying on one side."

But Ben Hartshorn of the South Somerset Green Party, who is leading the protest, said: "The decision to fell this magnificent tree wasn't made by the council or even the arboriculturist who recommended cutting it down. It was made by the town's insurers, but who elected them?
"It is unbelievable that an insurance company would recommend to a democratically-elected body that they should use police powers against their electorate when there has been nothing but peaceful, lawful protest. Our council is unwilling to consider any options other than felling. It has become obvious that this is a matter of convenience – it suits their plans to approve future development on Henhayes."

Eric Frei · 25th April 2009, 10:56 PM

Will we as arborists ever get the real diagnosis?

What fungi, how advanced, any picus results, any resistograph results etc??

I'm not so into the argument of whether or not a building takes it's place as I am into authentic tree diagnosis.

When arborists' taint a report for financial gain or a desired outcome then my BS meter goes through the roof.

If I'm reporting on a tree that sits smack bang in the middle of a house block (use that for this argument), and has to be removed regardless of it's condition to make way for a house then I write that ... and the flip side to that coin is if a tree were to be "saved" that town planners allowed to be smack bang in the middle of a house block rendering the purchaser "houseless" then all forces of negligence and law should bust their dumb asses for incompetence in town planning and design, selling blocks you cannot build on is illegal and fraudulent.

Any news on the tree facts would be great.

Sean Freeman · 25th May 2009, 10:41 PM

Bit of an update.....

BBC NEWS | England | Somerset | Council petitioned over oak tree

Save the Crewkerne Luccombe Oak | Facebook

My understanding is that Neville Fay has written a report on the tree, and that a pull test was to be carried out...have no info on either of these.

Eric Frei · 25th May 2009, 10:51 PM

Well, tree is still there and more tests.

These are all good things for us to learn from, a pull test, it would be good to be there. They should market them and charge for being there, I'd attend!

Sean Freeman · 15th June 2009, 01:12 AM

Update:

Seems like a good outcome from my perspective....

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Somerset | Threatened oak is given reprieve

Congratulations to all those who were motivated to give of their time and energies to preserve this tree in their community

Particular thanks to Neville Fay, who has again delivered a powerful report to present the arguement for undertaking testing to get some kind of definition as to how stable the tree is...or is not.

Quote:

The Council will follow Mr. Fayes report, order the pull test and follow his recommendations...

Sean Freeman · 5th July 2009, 10:29 AM

It would seem that the result of the pull test support retention of the Oak, the development btw is still going ahead, we can only hope that BMP will be followed in establishing tree protection measures throughout the development, and that construction plans have been sufficiently ammended to be able to retain the tree long term.

Lucombe oak is 'safe enough to stay'

Quote:

Lucombe oak is 'safe enough to stay'
TESTS carried out on the threatened Lucombe oak in Crewkerne are understood to have found it is stable enough to be saved.
Town councillors meeting next Monday are due to receive the results of tests carried out last week and decide if the tree should stay standing.
The future of the tree was called into doubt when it was branded a health and safety hazard after a fungus infection was found in its roots in January.
Campaigners succeeded in getting the council to take a second opinion, resulting in last Thursday's tests.
As well as looking at the findings of how likely the tree is to tip in strong winds, members are due to take advice from the council's insurers and consider implications, if any, for the proposed Henhayes Sports and Community Centre planning application.
It is believed initial indications of the test show the tree is safe enough to remain.
Town council property and projects officer Jed Dunn said: "On Thursday 25 June Treeworks Environmental Practice carried out the 'pull test' on the Lucombe oak with the aid of climbers from Devon Tree Services and a mobile anchor point supplied by the town council.
"A series of pulls were taken in two different directions, south westerly and north westerly, and the readings recorded.
"The initial assessment was made by Paul Muir of Treework and further calculations still have to be made to allow for wind variances."
Bristol-based Treework Environmental Practice is the only arboricultural consultancy in the UK which can carry out the test, developed in Germany more than 20 years ago.
It was carried out with help of Andreas Detter of a German consultancy visiting the UK for the Arboricultural Association show in Cirencester.
Mr Muir said: "During the test a static load is applied to the tree using a manual wire rope grip winch. The reaction to the load applied is measured using high resolution instruments which measure the compression and tension in the outside wood fibres and movement of the root plate."

Eric Frei · 5th July 2009, 08:08 PM

Well there you go.

Where or who in Australia does proper pull tests, like in that article it said only 1 company in England had the capacity to do the test.

I think we needed it for New Farm Park.

I wonder if the thermal imaging people were consulted too?

Marcus The Thermal Imager · 9th July 2009, 02:42 AM

See 'Crewkerne Oak Saved'

Sean Freeman · 11th July 2009, 04:44 PM

Sort of a Post Script...the original development plan if not actually been withdrawn (its not clear to me that it has) is certainly being altered to protect aditional space for the oak for the future....

Quote:

Tree stays put and centre moves back
Friday, July 10, 2009, 13:48

CAMPAIGNERS have won their battle in Crewkerne to save the Lucombe oak, earmarked for the chop in January.
On Monday, town councillors endorsed recommendations following tests on the tree in Henhayes which showed it is safe to remain, subject to carrying out maintenance and safety measures.
The amenities committee also decided to amend the current planning application for the proposed Henhayes Sports and Community Centre, relocating it behind the oak, but that could be reviewed in the future.
The decision to keep the tree was a U-turn for the council after a previous survey labelled it a hazard as it was infected with fungus.
Following the pull test, insurers will cover the tree if: it is fenced off, with a sign displayed explaining why; the soil is nourished with mulch and aerated to revitalise the roots; yearly inspections are made; there is a repeat pull test in three years' time; and the council seeks professional advice in severe weather.
Ben Hartshorn of the Save Our Oak! Save Henhayes! campaign said: "This tree was given a death warrant by our town council.
"But, in what we think is a first in the UK, 'people power' and the use of precise scientific equipment flown in from Germany have proved that the tree has a long-term future.
"We have collected a petition of over 2,000 names supporting the fight to save Henhayes from overdevelopment. This shows how strong the feeling is that we need to value and protect our green spaces and the species that inhabit them.This campaign has cost the group over £2,500. It hasn't been cheap, but it was worth the expense. This puts Crewkerne on the map, and everybody involved should be proud of what they've achieved here.
"We have a magnificent oak tree to enjoy."
Mayor Hilary Leamon said: "Having read the report, it looks as if what they are saying is that the tree is basically getting old, wearing out, but safe.
"The insurance company is happy to cover us, I do not see any reason to take the tree down."
Most members were happy to continue spending on the tree – about £4,500 so far plus around £2,500 for these new measures – but concerns were raised about the sum when the oak's lifespan is not known.
A divided council also decided to amend the current planning application for the proposed sports and community centre now the tree has been declared safe, reverting to the original site.
Cllr Leamon said that obtaining planning permission for the centre would mean applications for grant money can then be made. "I am not 100 per cent sure that the site is the totally right site.
"If we establish the principle and we do not like exactly where it is, we can look at the site again," she said.
Cllr Peter Chard said: "I am afraid I am of the opinion we shouldn't be building it there. I think probably we need to go back to the drawing board and relook at the siting. Basically, the new building is going to be fairly close to the roots of the tree. The roots are paramount to what we do. I think we would have to be very careful.
"I would still like to see the building footprint, how close it is to the tree before any decision is made."
Cllr Ron Bond questioned expenditure in an economic recession, asking for more information on the financial situation of the Aqua Centre and Active Lifestyle Centre before making a decision.
He said: "The past three years published accounts 2006, 2007 and 2008 show that the Aqua Centre and Active Lifestyle Centre have been running in deficit and their reserves have fallen from about £211,000 to £128,000.
"Whilst it can be argued that, due to building works, 2006 was bound to be a difficult year, nevertheless 2007 and 2008 are worrying."
But Cllr Mike Best, a member of Crewkerne Leisure Management which runs the centre on behalf of the council, said: "We haven't reported that the pool is in dire straits. We are healthy at the moment and the plans we have are moving forward.
"To insinuate the Aqua Centre is about to fail is totally unjust."
The planning application is likely to be debated by South Somerset District Council in September.
Funding for the measures to keep the tree are expected on the agenda for the next full town council on Monday 27 July.

25th April 2009, 10:56 PM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak? Will we as arborists ever get the real diagnosis? What fungi, how advanced, any picus results, any resistograph results etc?? I'm not so into the argument of whether or not a building takes it's place as I am into authentic tree diagnosis. When arborists' taint a report for financial gain or a desired outcome then my BS meter goes through the roof. If I'm reporting on a tree that sits smack bang in the middle of a house block (use that for this argument), and has to be removed regardless of it's condition to make way for a house then I write that ... and the flip side to that coin is if a tree were to be "saved" that town planners allowed to be smack bang in the middle of a house block rendering the purchaser "houseless" then all forces of negligence and law should bust their dumb asses for incompetence in town planning and design, selling blocks you cannot build on is illegal and fraudulent. Any news on the tree facts would be great. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

25th May 2009, 10:41 PM	#4
Sean Freeman Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,981	Re: God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak? Bit of an update..... BBC NEWS \| England \| Somerset \| Council petitioned over oak tree Save the Crewkerne Luccombe Oak \| Facebook My understanding is that Neville Fay has written a report on the tree, and that a pull test was to be carried out...have no info on either of these.

25th May 2009, 10:51 PM	#5
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak? Well, tree is still there and more tests. These are all good things for us to learn from, a pull test, it would be good to be there. They should market them and charge for being there, I'd attend! __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

5th July 2009, 08:08 PM	#8
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak? Well there you go. Where or who in Australia does proper pull tests, like in that article it said only 1 company in England had the capacity to do the test. I think we needed it for New Farm Park. I wonder if the thermal imaging people were consulted too? __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

9th July 2009, 02:42 AM	#9
Marcus The Thermal Imager Sappling Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 16	Re: God save the Queen but will Prince Charles save the oak? See 'Crewkerne Oak Saved' Last edited by Eric Frei; 9th July 2009 at 09:24 AM. Reason: added link

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