Throwback death discussion

Eric Frei

I came across this detailed information where sadly a 25yo tree faller died from head injuries when a limb came back and "got him".

The thing about this case is the guy did vacate the stump area at 45 degrees and was 21 feet away from the stump when it "got him".

Now add to this that he actually felled the tree downhill away from him, and the down hill was steep at 35 degrees this starts sounding pretty unrealistic.

However OSH investigated in detail, and as expected came to some conclusions to the fatal accident.

Here's the link to the case.

NIOSH FACE Program: West Virginia Case Report 99WV005 | CDC/NIOSH

I have also converted that page to a PDF and loaded it for continuity.

I have sketched what the tree may have looked like, we have a 24" DBH Yellow poplar on a 35% hill, the tree had a 60' long limb which grew perpendicular to the trunk at 18' high from ground. The limb was only 6" diameter where it attached to the trunk but it was 60' long! Now the piece that struck and killed the faller was only 3" diameter.

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throwbackdeath1998.pdf (749.8 KB, 54 views)

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Garry Brockley

Thats an incredible chain of events that led to the mans death, the chances of that happening must be billions to one. like i always say when your times up there's nothing you can do about it.

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Eric Frei

Here's the investigators take, I bolded bits.
From the discussion part of the article:-

So the limb makes contact with the ground long before the tree is down. The tree is gathering momentum and the force upon the limb breaks the limb which is severely torqued. The limbs length is long enough to hit the faller.

He was hit in the back of the head, either he turned to duck or had his back to it. This is the part I'm really focusing on, turning your back on the tree.

A while ago I started this thread with the variety of options.

Tree felling escape path routine

I believe had this guy been watching he would have got out of the way, I honestly believe that. I also believe for him to get 21' away it went over slow, time was his friend, to get 21' away up an incline like that means he had time.

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Garry Brockley

what if he was running up hill away from a problem he saw happening? you run fast forward and scramble backwards that would make sense 21 feet up hill at a run, tree falls, breaks, throws a limb.Possible?

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Eric Frei

Well, you'd tend to dodge an on coming event by going sideways wouldn't you?

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Garry Brockley

yes but in an incident when adrenaline is flowing fine motor skills and free thought fail, you do what you always do, in this case it could have been back at 45 deg as he always has. just a thought. plus we dont know what was to the side of him either.

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Martin

What an unfortunate set of events for this guy. I have heard of a few similar throwback events that happened here in BC. One guy whom I worked with (I moved to a different site 2 days before the incident). Was falling in an upper elevation block and came across a yellow cedar (Chamaecyparris nooktatensis) that was hung up in a Balsam (Abies sp.) at a 45deg angled slightly uphill. Instead of putting cuts in the trees he chose to fall another balsam (2 ft dia) into the cypress hangup and knock it out. The "pusher" was slightly uphill from the hangup and about 60-80 ft back. Seems like a pretty typical way to get rid of a minor hang up from a distance. When the pusher tree hit the cypress the top of the cypress was compressed against the holder balsam and eventually broke at 6". It shot back, the faler saw it coming but had not time to move much and kind of tried to move away sideways. He was already 12 feet from the stump he was falling, as he braced himself on the hillside the cypress top struck him on the side of the body. He had moderate injuries to his side and a completely crushed ankle which unfortunately has since ended his falling career.

The second story is pretty unreal sounding. A faller fell a cypress (yellow cedar) snag. It was small (24'' dia - 100 ft tall). The top struck a stump and shot back hitting the faller in the back of the head, breaking his neck. He survived but no more falling for him as well.

Hopefully I explained these incidents well enough and it is understandable. As far as the other guy it is hard to say whether he saw the hazard for what it was and was still running or he turned away when he saw the piece fly back at him. But I'm sure either way when the piece broke it would have come back fast too fast for most guys to make much of a move other than maybe a short jump/dive sideways or whatever. I do agree though that a faller is better off to get to his spot (predesignated as safe(relatively)) and turn to watch what is happening. Keep your head up! Cheers - Martin

Bruce Hopf

There is a term for this on the big woods, like that you are working in. I think it is Back Lash, or something to that effect. Bruce.

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windthrown

Wow. 45 degrees and 21 feet back, from a downhill fall, should have been "safe." Felling trees is a dangerous sport. I wonder sometimes why I am still alive after 4 years of part time logging and thinning 10-120 foot trees. Some of them did not drop as planned. Some leaned and flipped back over the back cut, or rolled and barperchaired. Some just did not fall at all or got hung up in the canopy, or they leaned on another tree. Of course its not the big or complicated ones that get you, its the ones that look easy when things are going well. The 40 foot simple face cuts, back cut, pop in a wedge or two and WHAM! WTF? Some widowmaker snaps off, or the thing splits on you, or hits something else that hits you. Like what happened to this guy:

http://www.kiprc.uky.edu/projects/fa...es/97ky018.pdf

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97ky018-logger-killed-1997-KY.pdf (20.4 KB, 38 views)

Eric Frei

Yep, you'd dang well think so. That's why this is interesting. Some trees like euc grandis here have really long low limbs .... they say hind site is 20/20 vision but where does one draw the line? Had the guy been 21' away on a 30 degree angle he would have been OK.

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windthrown

Its funny, but the more I logged, the closer I stayed to the butt of the tree. I also was more keenly aware of escape routes and always had them in my head before I cut the strap or finished a non-strapped back cut. Falling redwoods were fun. They are lighter. But as a consequence, the hingewood is not as good, so they tended to go more astray on me.

At one silviculture course I was in, the professor was an experienced logger. He said that you were not a real logger until a tree spins out of the cut and falls backward 180 degrees from where you were planning to drop the tree, and it lands dead onto where you left your chainsaw, crushing it. Then you can call yourself a logger. I have had similar things happen to me. Damn trees!

Garry Brockley

I had a similar thing happen but i was a pup at the time and didnt appreciate the danger i was in. dang youngsters.

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Martin

We definitely need to look and try to envision as many of the hundreds or even thousands of scenarios that could go on when we're falling/climbing. Especially, out in the bush with blowdown on the ground uneven topo, weather etc. I got a picture of a cedar snag I fell a few months ago were I misread the lean along with a strong adverse wind. I eventually had to cut off the sides(only a last case resort as long as I had a good alternate escape route, no escape route would have meant stopping work and blasting the tree with Amex) and let it go over backwards. No trees behind to brush, too bad I could've pushed it. Anyways, lotgs going on out there, keep your mind on the job and head up.
PS everything went well and I got way out of there went it finally went. In the pic that is my 390 powerhead sticking out of the backcut and on the front was a 12 dia hemlock at about 12 feet and on the low side was a 21/2 ft hemlock snag. The tree was just shy of 13 ft dia.

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windthrown

I never cut anything over about 5 feet DBH myself. My longest bar is only 32 inches...

Cole

whats five feet "DBH" mean there windy, what saw do run the 32 on

cheers cole

At one silviculture course I was in, the professor was an experienced logger. He said that you were not a real logger until a tree spins out of the cut and falls backward 180 degrees from where you were planning to drop the tree, and it lands dead onto where you left your chainsaw, crushing it. Then you can call yourself a logger. I have had similar things happen to me. Damn trees!

lol doesnt really make sence there windy a dumbass can do that without even knowing they did it. would call them a logger.....doooont think sooo

arborjockey

I was kinda told the same thing. Stay a little closer thefore you can watch the trees action (while it fell) longer. Then in emergency take your exit route. If your back is turned while your taking your exit you dont know whats coming and you could going towards danger.


then again somtimes you gotta just go

windthrown

Er, here in the states, DBH is standard measure for the diameter of a tree. DBH stands for Diameter at Breast Height. Tits high, there sonny. Tits high. Take a logger's tape and run it around the tree at arm height, and you get the DBH. You can also eye the diameter with a tree measuring stick, but that gives you the diameter at eye level.

I run the 32 inch bar on my woods ported 044. That bar came on my 066, actually. I run it with half-skip chisel. I also run a 28 and a 25 on it with full comp chain. Here in the longbar US west coast, we do such things. The 044 is an MR model, and hence it has the high output oiler for longer bars. It also has the 3/4 wrap, and what is called here in the states, "the PNW side cover" which is the larger side cover.

Well, the point he was trying to make was that trees do not always fall as planned. And if they have all fallen perfectly for you, I would have to wonder what kind of logging you have done, and for how long. Eventually some trees are gonna baberchair, split, roll, pinch your bar, or heave over backwards. Or just sit there and do nothing, hung up in the canopy. Hell, one tree we felled in Redwood Valley, CA was a big old live oak. It was filled with water, and it just started gushing when we made the back cut. I did not expect that to happen. Never know... I always try to think, "what if it all forks up" and plan accordingly. Most times the trees fall just fine. Sometimes they don't though.

windthrown

Yah, that comes with experience. Never turn your back on the tree until it is coming at you. The closer you are, the easier it is to move away from the fall. Watch the tree fall, and watch that butt if it breaks the hinge. Wear a hardhat for flying debris and any falling limbs.

Yah, I think he got the lean figured wrong on that tree. Nice fence job. I have to wonder where he had planned to drop that thing though? Seems he was aiming 180 degrees away from the actual fall, which is toward the house, deck, etc.???

Martin

I would say that you want to get at least 10 ft from the stump and heads up unless its completely not safe to do so(steep ground etc.) As you say, heads up and watch the tree once your clear(by your assessment). Always wear a hard hat of course but don;t count on it to do much from a limb falling from 50-200 ft(even a small one) watch the canopy until you know it's clear.

Looks to me like he cut off the far side and the tree split towards him on top of missing the lean and probably no wedges. It happens but shouldn't when you have an uphill lean or nice fence and house right there! Cheers, Marty

Bruce Hopf

When I was taught how to fell a tree, Especially in our bush, before we started the chain saw, we would plan our escape route, pick a tree to duck behind.
We also had a back up plan, just in case that route was taken away, in case something went wrong.
Then we would fell the tree, ans once that tree started to go, we would be on our way to the tree we picked to hide behind, and watch the tree go from there.
If tree limbs where flying, we were safe behind the tree, or if a branch would bust off, and spring, we were still safe from the tree that we where hiding behind. Still do it today.
If it is in an open field, we would get as far as possible from the tree, turn around enough time before it would hit the ground, and we could see if anything would be going wrong, and hope to get out of the way, in case something did. Bruce.

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McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Martin

Sounds good.

stirmantrees

in regards to the original post it seems to have been a very unfortunate accident.
Something I do from time to time is to pre- cut some of the leads (if they are large) so that the tree will lay down flat as the pre-cut limbs hit the ground( while at the same time continue to have the weight advantage of the same limbs. I have done this very limited and mostly on small trees that are not consequential. however, it does pose some other potential problems if one is not careful.

even a 1/3 undercut can be enough for a lead to fold. I am sure many of us have had a tree that has all the weight in a favorable place but to drop the tree there is a huge lead that will cause the tree to roll and there is targets to the side.
Anyways, very useful but must be done perfectly technique. could this gut have saved his life by appying this????maybe who knows.
everyone make good decisions and dont do anything your gut is telling you is the wrong thing to do. i have read that many of deaths have been preceded by climbers stating some concern over the tree they were about to tackle. be safe

i will post some vid or pics soon.