3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School

Eric Frei · 14th September 2009, 09:47 PM

Three hurt as tree trunk falls on school sports day

Three hurt as tree trunk falls on school sports day - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Quote:

An eight-metre tree trunk has fallen onto people at sports day at a school in Adelaide's northern suburbs and a man with critical head injuries has been rushed to hospital.

The trunk fell at Cedar College in Fosters Road at Northgate in high winds, just before midday ACST, while hundreds of students and parents were on the school oval for sports day.

A woman has an ankle injury and has been taken to hospital.

A boy was struck and has slight injuries.

He has been taken to Adelaide's Women's and Children's Hospital.

One of the trunks fell from a multi-trunk ironbark tree.

The school principal Peter Thomson says the critically-injured man was a father attending the sports day.

Mr Thomson said many trees at the school had been checked only recently.

"We've had a tree surgeon on the property who's examined all the trees and instructed us which branches need to be removed, we've done that," he said.

"This tree in particular wasn't on that list, so we assumed it would be safe and sometimes you just can't tell what's inside a tree."

There have been strong winds across South Australia, with peak gusts of 90 kilometres per hour at Snowtown in the mid north.

Garry Brockley · 14th September 2009, 10:09 PM

wow they were so lucky thats some weight, would like a few pics of the base to see what happened

Bruce Hopf · 15th September 2009, 05:19 PM

Boy I'd say, that they were lucky. Glad to hear that they are going to be OK. What kind of tree would that be. Bruce.

Eric Frei · 15th September 2009, 09:47 PM

It's a multi leadered ironbark euc, notorious for included bark unions.

TrevMcRev · 15th September 2009, 11:22 PM

Even from that photo alone its not that surprising.

But of course, the tree surgeon didn't point that one out, they assumed it was ok, and sometimes you just cant tell whats inside hey....

Eric Frei · 16th September 2009, 12:56 AM

Well frankly, to my eyes it's odd.

We dont get them like that here, they generally have single trunk.

My BS antenna tells me that one could well have originated from a stump, there's too many leaders. Resprouted coppice or lignotuber.

Sean Freeman · 16th September 2009, 01:01 AM

Very hard to tell anything much from the photo, perhaps a little buried in addition to any other problems?

Lets not forget though with respects to the person(s) that carried out some kind of reporting for the school, we do not know what their scope of works were, nor what degree of documentation was completed.

I hope the chap is ok.

Eric Frei · 16th September 2009, 01:04 AM

Well the principal did say.

Quote:

We've had a tree surgeon on the property who's examined all the trees and instructed us which branches need to be removed, we've done that," he said.

"This tree in particular wasn't on that list, so we assumed it would be safe and sometimes you just can't tell what's inside a tree.

So the "chap" inspected all the trees and that one was not on the list for work. Hope his insurance is up to date.

Sean Freeman · 16th September 2009, 01:12 AM

I rarely believe much of what I read in papers...either way there is no indication what the scope of works was.

I would hope that they were applying a systematic, documented assessment methodology, one based on best practice...and were sensible enough to include written limitations on their reporting.

The chap I referred to was the injured man.

flowergirl · 13th October 2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hopf

Boy I'd say, that they were lucky. Glad to hear that they are going to be OK. What kind of tree would that be. Bruce.

actually last I heard the man is still in hospital

Drouin Tree Service · 14th October 2009, 09:03 AM

In my experience i would lay money that that tree has grown from a stump cut,Or a destroyed sappling thats regenerated.

Bruce Hopf · 14th October 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowergirl

actually last I heard the man is still in hospital

Welcome th Tree World. If he is still in the hospital, he must have been badly injured. Bruce.

flowergirl · 14th October 2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Well frankly, to my eyes it's odd.

We dont get them like that here, they generally have single trunk.

My BS antenna tells me that one could well have originated from a stump, there's too many leaders. Resprouted coppice or lignotuber.

Hi there - just wondering - you refer to your "BS antenna" - does BS stand for what I think it does?? - just curious

Bruce Hopf · 14th October 2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Well frankly, to my eyes it's odd.

We dont get them like that here, they generally have single trunk.

My BS antenna tells me that one could well have originated from a stump, there's too many leaders. Resprouted coppice or lignotuber.

I have a few trees, like this one here in my Bush. Trunk is about 5 to 6 feet high, with two, or three leaders going from there. I have seen where one of the leaders have broken off before.
I'm starting to think, that when I get into the area of the bush, that these trees are in, I'm going to cut them down. What is your opinion of this. Thanks again. Bruce.

flowergirl · 17th October 2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Freeman

I rarely believe much of what I read in papers...either way there is no indication what the scope of works was.

I would hope that they were applying a systematic, documented assessment methodology, one based on best practice...and were sensible enough to include written limitations on their reporting.

The chap I referred to was the injured man.

in this case - the papers "under-reported" his injuries - he has spinal injuries - the laceration to his head was the least of his problems

Eric Frei · 18th October 2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowergirl

Hi there - just wondering - you refer to your "BS antenna" - does BS stand for what I think it does?? - just curious

Yeah it stands for bullshit.

As each trunk grows in girth it actually pushes apart where they meet, a natural weakness. As this is so close to the ground it means great leverage placed on the union, lot higher probability of failure.

Jacaranda's here do get that trait and last week we reduced and thinned a "leader" to reduce stress on that point, you can also cable it (both static and dynamic).

The habit of ironbark is generally a single trunk so it would raise my eyebrows to see that specimen, so I'd assess it, look at the leaders, see if there was substancial interference etc. Also each leader is denied the strength of a well formed butress root.

Now ironbark's here tend to have a lot of unions like that higher in canopy, two stems growing close together with bark between them, as they grow pushing each other apart. We look for those things and try to mitigate it.

I'd really have to be there and right now I'm not at home so I cannot load a pic of a similar scenario where I condemned the tree to removal based on target value.

flowergirl · 19th October 2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Yeah it stands for bullshit.

As each trunk grows in girth it actually pushes apart where they meet, a natural weakness. As this is so close to the ground it means great leverage placed on the union, lot higher probability of failure.

Jacaranda's here do get that trait and last week we reduced and thinned a "leader" to reduce stress on that point, you can also cable it (both static and dynamic).

The habit of ironbark is generally a single trunk so it would raise my eyebrows to see that specimen, so I'd assess it, look at the leaders, see if there was substancial interference etc. Also each leader is denied the strength of a well formed butress root.

Now ironbark's here tend to have a lot of unions like that higher in canopy, two stems growing close together with bark between them, as they grow pushing each other apart. We look for those things and try to mitigate it.

I'd really have to be there and right now I'm not at home so I cannot load a pic of a similar scenario where I condemned the tree to removal based on target value.

Thanks Ekka - you certainly know your stuff! - I wish you had been the consultant for this particular school..

kieren · 9th January 2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Well the principal did say.

So the "chap" inspected all the trees and that one was not on the list for work. Hope his insurance is up to date.

The industry down here is a sham! when looking at the trees here they look for what they can charge the most for not what is best for the tree or for public safety and to be honest the training is average at best, you get qualified by ticking the boxes and paying the cash. He would'nt have seen it to be a problem. I think I know what company did the assessment and if i right they dont have arborists to look at trees the have estimators to price what work they can do

flowergirl · 9th January 2010, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kieren

The industry down here is a sham! when looking at the trees here they look for what they can charge the most for not what is best for the tree or for public safety and to be honest the training is average at best, you get qualified by ticking the boxes and paying the cash. He would'nt have seen it to be a problem. I think I know what company did the assessment and if i right they dont have arborists to look at trees the have estimators to price what work they can do

so you're thinking it's possible that an arborist has never inspected these trees?

kieren · 11th January 2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowergirl

so you're thinking it's possible that an arborist has never inspected these trees?

He wouldn't have seen the multi stem to be abnormal for this species as i said the training is not that in-depth and being that the tree is not native to adelaide there are no specimens growing to compare with except for a few street tree plantings. The so called Arborist and i use the term loosely would have looked at the tree and not seen anything apparently odd. Like Ekka said i hope there insurance is up to date cause the are going to have i microscope shoved up their arse and if it is as obvious to the investigator as is to this forum that the tree was flawed, Their screwed!!!

jadly · 1st March 2010, 04:55 PM

Hi, I'm the person who was seriously injured by the tree in this tread. I thank everyone for their comments on this subject, and if you have any more information that may assist my lawyers please email myself at

adriansmith245@hotmail.com

or post to this thread

I'm currently in rehabilitation at the Hampstead Centre in Adelaide.

Regards

John Duthie

Eric Frei · 1st March 2010, 08:32 PM

Jeez John, hope you are doing OK. If you have the time I would like to read your story, like what you were doing before hand for work etc, then how this has affected your life, and what the future prognosis is.

There's other cases John, the most notable I was involved here. It is a long thread but shows some of the mentality we are dealing with in scenarios like this.

Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

John, tree inspections in public places should not be an adhoc hit/miss process. There should be some consistency, priority and methodolgy.

Trees which can impact buildings and people, are adjacent to thoroughfares and roads come first. Trees down the back paddock where no-one goes are hardly a threat to much for example.

Schools should have a tree inventory, all trees over say 200mm DBH should be tagged and listed on a site map with brief details. The map could also prioritize areas where higher risk resides due to targets.

You'll need to know the scope of the report, however limiting the scope by the school could be an issue, for example .... Mr Arborist can you please inspect the trees in the carpark, don't worry about any others".

Recently on a site I was asked to inspect 1 tree only, but when I was leaving from the carpark I saw a 15m dead eucalyptus over hanging parked cars, relatively recently dead so branch shedding was going to happen. So I put it in the report regardless.

If there's any other way we can help just sing out.

Garry Brockley · 1st March 2010, 10:32 PM

Good to hear from you john! its good for us all to have a follow up on such a big story, like Ekka says it would be good to hear your story to help things progress in this industry.

Bruce Hopf · 2nd March 2010, 02:36 AM

First John, welcome to Tree World, and coming forward, letting us know, that you unfortunately, were involved in this matter.

Secondly, I hope that you are on the road to recovery, and also would like to know, the same things as Ekka had asked, for your side of the story.

Would be good to know, as I'm quite sure, that some of the members here, like Ekka, and a couple of others here, would be able to assist you, in your case, with advice.

Thanks again, for coming forward.

Bruce.

kieren · 2nd March 2010, 08:24 AM

Hi john good to know your still with us your a very lucky man i hope this drama wont give you the opinion that all trees need to be removed. I think that in your case it was wrong place at the wrong time. hope you are soon back to a normal way of life good luck

jadly · 1st August 2010, 12:57 PM

Hello again,

Just an update in regards to the tree incident. There has been some good progress in regards to the public liability claim, I can't share it just yet as the legal action is continuing, however some of the statements I read in this thread that have supposedly been attributed to the school I am quite angry. Enough of that for now.

I am still in rehabilitation, and things are progressing slowly. Life is very difficult and stressful for myself at the moment. My family and friends have been wonderful in their support.

I look forward in telling my side of the story down the track.

regards

John Duthie

Eric Frei · 1st August 2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadly

however some of the statements I read in this thread that have supposedly been attributed to the school I am quite angry.

Err, I'm not sure what you mean here, are you saying you are angry at the school or us?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadly

I am still in rehabilitation, and things are progressing slowly

It's been almost a year!

I certainly would like to hear the story, the process etc.... How the heck do you fund a legal fight or does a no win no fee lawyer take a huge chunk etc?

Here's some more relative evidence for you, it's all about risk tolerance and the arborists psychie.

Read this, it will speak for itself.

Tree risk assessments| 15methods compared

There will be many different outcomes from polar extremities, a tree hugger will get a vastly different answer to a tree hater. Even the scientific community argue, from pull tests by Brudi to VTA by Mattheck. The fact is no-one really knows when a tree will fail, but I will say this loud and clear .....

Arborists will tend to cut down trees before they fail, because once they have failed it's too late.

You'll read numerous stories of tree huggers putting off the inevitable, like that bloke up a tree in WA, the New Farm Jacarandas etc etc etc.

Now in this post of that New Farm thread there is a video, at around 3.24mins into the video watch what that woman says.

jadly · 1st August 2010, 11:52 PM

Sorry for not being clear, I am not angry with you guys here. You've provided some good information and I thank you for that.

My understanding of public liability in Australia is as follows. I'm not a legal person, please don't take the following as being 100% accurate, and please correct me if I am wrong.

Prior to the 0911 terrorist attack ( my accident also occurred on 11th september ) public liability was fairly straight forward... you have an accident and you are covered by pubic liability. The public liability payout was huge following 0911 and in reality the building owner didn't really do anything wrong. So the public liability changed in Australia ( possibly internationally too ). Its now required to show that the owner of the property did something wrong. And this takes some time to gather information.

In australia, those lawyers taking on public liability cases do not get paid unless the case is either won at court or settled prior to court.

Some time ago I heard stories about thieves who injure themselves when breaking into properties, having a claim on public liability insurance, and to me this would be wrong for the thief to have any claim. Maybe this is no longer the case ?

Eric Frei · 2nd August 2010, 03:47 AM

I am happy I share some history.

Not for your personal condition though.

Why do I write like this? Simple.

I know that a Yatala escapee who injured himself won damages .... go back maybe 20 years. Look closely.

I also know that the I personally am under seige and industry pressure to shut this place down, seems ethics belong in bank accounts.... you are not alone!

I will say from a mountain top ....

There are two types of people that wander this earth, those that really care and those that are just doing their jobs.

Those that are doing their jobs are most likely the weakest and likely to benefit.

Those that care .... hide!

......
..

..

Cynical?

Not so.

True?

100% yes.

Why?

Sadly, some elevate their egos above your life's affairs!

treeshaveneeds · 3rd August 2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

I also know that the I personally am under seige and industry pressure to shut this place down

You're under pressure to shut down this website? your business? or both?

I certainly, fervently hope neither happens.

14th September 2009, 10:09 PM	#2
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,649	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School wow they were so lucky thats some weight, would like a few pics of the base to see what happened __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

15th September 2009, 05:19 PM	#3
Bruce Hopf Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North of Sebringville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,176	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Boy I'd say, that they were lucky. Glad to hear that they are going to be OK. What kind of tree would that be. Bruce. __________________ McCulloch chain saws 1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's, 2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener, 1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver 2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10 Stihl chain saws 2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084, Strunk chain saws 1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

15th September 2009, 09:47 PM	#4
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School It's a multi leadered ironbark euc, notorious for included bark unions. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

15th September 2009, 11:22 PM	#5
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Even from that photo alone its not that surprising. But of course, the tree surgeon didn't point that one out, they assumed it was ok, and sometimes you just cant tell whats inside hey....

16th September 2009, 12:56 AM	#6
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Well frankly, to my eyes it's odd. We dont get them like that here, they generally have single trunk. My BS antenna tells me that one could well have originated from a stump, there's too many leaders. Resprouted coppice or lignotuber. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th September 2009, 01:01 AM	#7
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Very hard to tell anything much from the photo, perhaps a little buried in addition to any other problems? Lets not forget though with respects to the person(s) that carried out some kind of reporting for the school, we do not know what their scope of works were, nor what degree of documentation was completed. I hope the chap is ok.

16th September 2009, 01:12 AM	#9
Sean Freeman Monument Status Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,985	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School I rarely believe much of what I read in papers...either way there is no indication what the scope of works was. I would hope that they were applying a systematic, documented assessment methodology, one based on best practice...and were sensible enough to include written limitations on their reporting. The chap I referred to was the injured man.

14th October 2009, 09:03 AM	#11
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,697	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School In my experience i would lay money that that tree has grown from a stump cut,Or a destroyed sappling thats regenerated. __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

1st March 2010, 04:55 PM	#21
jadly I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hampstead Rehab Centre Posts: 4	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Hi, I'm the person who was seriously injured by the tree in this tread. I thank everyone for their comments on this subject, and if you have any more information that may assist my lawyers please email myself at adriansmith245@hotmail.com or post to this thread I'm currently in rehabilitation at the Hampstead Centre in Adelaide. Regards John Duthie

1st March 2010, 08:32 PM	#22
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Jeez John, hope you are doing OK. If you have the time I would like to read your story, like what you were doing before hand for work etc, then how this has affected your life, and what the future prognosis is. There's other cases John, the most notable I was involved here. It is a long thread but shows some of the mentality we are dealing with in scenarios like this. Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advised! John, tree inspections in public places should not be an adhoc hit/miss process. There should be some consistency, priority and methodolgy. Trees which can impact buildings and people, are adjacent to thoroughfares and roads come first. Trees down the back paddock where no-one goes are hardly a threat to much for example. Schools should have a tree inventory, all trees over say 200mm DBH should be tagged and listed on a site map with brief details. The map could also prioritize areas where higher risk resides due to targets. You'll need to know the scope of the report, however limiting the scope by the school could be an issue, for example .... Mr Arborist can you please inspect the trees in the carpark, don't worry about any others". Recently on a site I was asked to inspect 1 tree only, but when I was leaving from the carpark I saw a 15m dead eucalyptus over hanging parked cars, relatively recently dead so branch shedding was going to happen. So I put it in the report regardless. If there's any other way we can help just sing out. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

1st March 2010, 10:32 PM	#23
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,649	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Good to hear from you john! its good for us all to have a follow up on such a big story, like Ekka says it would be good to hear your story to help things progress in this industry. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

2nd March 2010, 02:36 AM	#24
Bruce Hopf Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North of Sebringville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,176	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School First John, welcome to Tree World, and coming forward, letting us know, that you unfortunately, were involved in this matter. Secondly, I hope that you are on the road to recovery, and also would like to know, the same things as Ekka had asked, for your side of the story. Would be good to know, as I'm quite sure, that some of the members here, like Ekka, and a couple of others here, would be able to assist you, in your case, with advice. Thanks again, for coming forward. Bruce. __________________ McCulloch chain saws 1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's, 2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener, 1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver 2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10 Stihl chain saws 2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084, Strunk chain saws 1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

2nd March 2010, 08:24 AM	#25
kieren Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Adelaide Posts: 104	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Hi john good to know your still with us your a very lucky man i hope this drama wont give you the opinion that all trees need to be removed. I think that in your case it was wrong place at the wrong time. hope you are soon back to a normal way of life good luck

1st August 2010, 12:57 PM	#26
jadly I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hampstead Rehab Centre Posts: 4	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Hello again, Just an update in regards to the tree incident. There has been some good progress in regards to the public liability claim, I can't share it just yet as the legal action is continuing, however some of the statements I read in this thread that have supposedly been attributed to the school I am quite angry. Enough of that for now. I am still in rehabilitation, and things are progressing slowly. Life is very difficult and stressful for myself at the moment. My family and friends have been wonderful in their support. I look forward in telling my side of the story down the track. regards John Duthie

1st August 2010, 11:52 PM	#28
jadly I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hampstead Rehab Centre Posts: 4	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School Sorry for not being clear, I am not angry with you guys here. You've provided some good information and I thank you for that. My understanding of public liability in Australia is as follows. I'm not a legal person, please don't take the following as being 100% accurate, and please correct me if I am wrong. Prior to the 0911 terrorist attack ( my accident also occurred on 11th september ) public liability was fairly straight forward... you have an accident and you are covered by pubic liability. The public liability payout was huge following 0911 and in reality the building owner didn't really do anything wrong. So the public liability changed in Australia ( possibly internationally too ). Its now required to show that the owner of the property did something wrong. And this takes some time to gather information. In australia, those lawyers taking on public liability cases do not get paid unless the case is either won at court or settled prior to court. Some time ago I heard stories about thieves who injure themselves when breaking into properties, having a claim on public liability insurance, and to me this would be wrong for the thief to have any claim. Maybe this is no longer the case ?

2nd August 2010, 03:47 AM	#29
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: 3 hurt as tree fails Adelaide School I am happy I share some history. Not for your personal condition though. Why do I write like this? Simple. I know that a Yatala escapee who injured himself won damages .... go back maybe 20 years. Look closely. I also know that the I personally am under seige and industry pressure to shut this place down, seems ethics belong in bank accounts.... you are not alone! I will say from a mountain top .... There are two types of people that wander this earth, those that really care and those that are just doing their jobs. Those that are doing their jobs are most likely the weakest and likely to benefit. Those that care .... hide! ...... .. .. Cynical? Not so. True? 100% yes. Why? Sadly, some elevate their egos above your life's affairs! __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

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