What pine is this?

defex

I am having a hard time trying to find out what type of pine this is. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Its about 50 years old about 12 ft. Thank you.

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Steve Galehouse

It's possibly a Japanese black pine, Pinus thungergii, a popular ornamental in the SW US, but if it is that small after as old as you indicated, it likely has had its root zone severely restricted.

defex

Thanks for the reply, I believe your right, it being Pinus thunbergii, I'll have to look at it both better. I have a hard time identifying pines. I know there is no one specific thing to look at when identifying but what is the best thing to look at "first" when trying to identify pines. Once again thanks for the reply.

Brent Ferris

The number of needles in a cluster, the length and suppleness of the needles, and the length of the cones. These characteristics will narrow the pines quite a bit.

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Eden Keeper

It was hard to tell from the photos if the needles were in 2's or 3's, even the size of the tree looks deceptive. If in pairs then two needle pinyon, Pinus edulis Engelm., seems most likely with Bishop pine, P. muricata D. Don, being the only other option barring anything not native such as Italian stone pine, P. pinea L. Otherwise there are several pines with 3 needles and it looks like it would take a pine cone and/or some other key ways to distinguish them besides the native range and/or habitat. I've seen ponderosa pine, P. ponderosa Lawson & C. Lawson, and the bark plating seems distinctly different, but I'll rank the rest (of those with 3 needles) from most to least likely based on what I've learned about the respective ranges (relative to Los Angeles) and habitats: California foothill pine, P. sabiniana Douglas ex Douglas, which is also known by the common name digger pine; Jeffrey pine, P. jeffreyi Balf.; Coulter pine, P. coulteri D. Don, heaviest cone; knobcone pine, P. attenuata Lemmon, which appears to have different bark besides having just isolated population; Monterey pine, P. radiata D. Don, has a fairly restricted range; and Torrey pine, P. torreyana Parry ex Carrière, which is endangered. The other pines native to California were eliminated for having more (5 for the white pine group) or less needles (single leaf pinyon) and/or needles that often persisted longer (foxtail, bristle cone, and lodgepole) while for a couple (whitebark pine and Parry pinyon) the form, habitat and/or range were slightly more of a factor. I hope that helps.

defex

Thanks guys, much appreciated for taking the time to help me out.