Unknow berry...

treeshaveneeds · 14th August 2010, 03:10 PM

I like books myself - but have way too many at moment - both technical and general, and not enough space to display them. And lately, when I read a book, I just fall asleep. I guess when I asked about a reference book some time ago, I was looking for one that helped run thru the keys for unknown plants. Most of the books I have are pretty good, but you need to have an idea of what you are looking at, 'cause if you don't you're lost. I am not too worried about an out-of-print book - they sometimes become available. And haven't got money right now anyways. All a moot point.......

Looking after elderly people can be quite draining. Way different from kids. Kids grow up, and eventually need less care. Elders tend to get worse and worse, need more and more care, and eventually you have to get help, or you don't survive, and then they suffer more. Plan ahead.

Ancestry wise, I definitely have IRish and English on my Father's side, and he was 6th generation Canadian; my mother was from Scotland. So i'm a mix -- like most folks. Dad tanned so well, he generally started a season, where everyone else finished; Mom burned more than tanned. I'm a bit in the middle --never really tan a lot, but don't burn much either.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 14th August 2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Which Dostoyevsky were you reading? I read Crime and Punishment last and couldn't put it down - think I missed about 3 days of work because of it after my sister gave me a really nicely bound copy for Christmas. Was a good translation too. As much as it was originally released in monthly installments in a Russian periodical, it's probably best read all at once or at the least in bug chunks. Want to read The Brothers Karamazov next.

Ummm yes, that book, while quite out of date, is way down my alley. Also I have several friends currently studying in Melbourne who are from Himalayan villages albeit from different parts, so extra bonus there. Can't afford it til the end of next week. Please! I'm trying not to buy books!

I think it was The Village of Stepanchikovo, it was a long time ago, maybe it was me at the time. Someone in my family gave it to me to read.

I think that it may be one of the secondhand book dealers whom I go to that is advertising that book, going to inquire about that when I go over next week to sell some books, have to have a bit of a clear out. I thought that book might appeal, since you were planning to travel that way. Just a coincidence really since we were discussing books. Oops. Well if you are going to buy it don't forget to barter.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 14th August 2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Not likely Black Irish. If you read the accounts of the Degos that washed ashore after the Armada failed in the storm, anyone speaking Spanish was put to a tortuous death and pretty fast. No place for a dark Latin bloke to hide amung starving throngs of nasty people speaking some dialect of Irish or Gaelic, or maybe Elizabethian English. No one would have put the invaders up for long on those islands. Generally the nasty Scots were hired and put in charge of the Irish by the Brits. Ay!

Dark skin tones may well extend from Roman times. My family is the same mix, dark, red and blonde, with blue, green, hazel and brown eyes. I cannot tan for crap. I was blonde as a kid, but then my hair turned darker. Now its light grey. My mom's side is 12th generation American from the UK/North France mostly (came over in the 17th century), and my father's family was 3rd generation from Norway/Denmark.
__________________

I meant from before the Spanish Armada, when Europe including Ireland England, Gaul (France), Part of what was Spain was Iberian,

Quote:

Celtic-speaking peoples from the western Iberian peninsula who began to migrate to Ireland and Britain in the fifth century B.C.[5] Genetic research shows a strong similarity between the Y chromosome haplotypes of males from northwestern Spain and northern Portugal and Irish men with Gaelic surnames.[6] There is a significant difference between peoples of the west and the east of Ireland, in that much of those from the west owe less of their DNA to Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian populations. Genetic marker R1b reaches frequencies as high as 98% in northwestern Ireland and 95% in southwestern Ireland,[7] but drops to 73% in northeastern Ireland and 85% in southeastern Ireland. Additionally, R1b averages between 90% and 95% in Y chromosomes of the Basques of northern Spain (and southwestern France), considerably greater than levels of the same haplogroup found amongst the remaining Spanish genepool, where it varies from region to region in a range from 42% to 75%, but mostly with percentages in the 50s and 60s.[4][7][8][9][10]

In recently published books (Blood of the Isles by Bryan Sykes and The Origins of the British - A Genetic Detective Story by Stephen Oppenheimer), both authors propose that ancient inhabitants of Ireland can be traced back to the Iberian Peninsula, as a result of a series of migrations that took place during the Mesolithic and to a lesser extent the Neolithic Age. The Ice Age caused the depopulation of the British Isles. After glaciers retreated, the islands were populated by migrations from the Iberian Peninsula. These migrations laid the foundations for present-day populations in the British Isles, contributing three-quarters of the ancestral population, according to Oppenheimer. Later migrations of Romans, Normans, and Anglo-Saxons appear to be much less significant in terms of genetic additions than previously thought.[11] Oppenheimer maintains there is a great lineal commonality between the Irish and British people. He also advances the controversial claim that a language closely related to Basque was long ago spoken by their shared ancestors.[1

Treeshaveneeds comment about his dad

Quote:

Dad tanned so well, he generally started a season, where everyone else finished;

pretty well sums me up, olive skinned. Which was from my Dad. I used to laugh at all the girlfriends as they slapped on sun tan oil to go brown, now I'm relieved I didn't sun bake much, skin cancers pretty bad here in Oz.

I find genetics pretty interesting, when you think about it we are all pretty much a mixture. There was a lot of interbreeding going on over the centuries in Europe. We are all throwbacks to some genetic pool or another.

Then you can see it in the music too, folk Celtic music in Ireland and Spain are surprising similar. The instruments differ that's all.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 15th August 2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

I like books myself - but have way too many at moment - both technical and general, and not enough space to display them. And lately, when I read a book, I just fall asleep. I guess when I asked about a reference book some time ago, I was looking for one that helped run thru the keys for unknown plants. Most of the books I have are pretty good, but you need to have an idea of what you are looking at, 'cause if you don't you're lost. I am not too worried about an out-of-print book - they sometimes become available. And haven't got money right now anyways. All a moot point.......

Sounds like you need a good botanical dictionary, helps me to key, I could'nt do without one. Explains what each term means ( eg. Geniculate: bent sharply, like a knee joint) Honestly without mine I would have trouble. They probably have one on the Net, I sometimes use Zipcodezoo if I think I know what a plant is, the Key is interactive, you click on each term to get an explanation, makes it a bit more fun. There are bound to be more. Let's face it, keying is hard if your not a trained botanist.

I have "The Language of Botany,C.Debenham, The Society for Growing Australian Plants" and an old Penguin Reference Book; Dictionary of Botany,1984, Elizabeth Tootill. They are both old books I picked up second hand. Between the two of them they suffice to get me through. I'd try the Net maybe.

Sounds like its tough in the economy your ways.

Welcome to ZipcodeZoo

windthrown · 15th August 2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcg.insight.gardens

I meant from before the Spanish Armada, when Europe including Ireland England, Gaul (France), Part of what was Spain was Iberian,

Ay, well, you are going way back then, to a time that is not well recorded. Rome and the middle ages. Tribes wandered all over the place. The Goths, Celts, Vandals, Huns, yadda yadda. Word is in the anthropological world that the Celts started in China. The Chinese have kept a lid on it, but sites there show tartan weaving and red locks of hair in China long before they appear in the British Isles. Then there are the Basque people, whose language is separate from anyone else's, and no one can figure out where they came from. Spain was eventually settled and dominated by one of the Gothic groups, the Visigoths. The Goths were originally from northeast Europe, split up, and wandered all over Europe dominating various regions (including Italy). Theya re credited for sacking Rome, and after the collapse of Rome they left and went to south Gaul and then into Iberia. They were eventally defeated by the Franks and later displaced by the Moors from North Afrika.

dov · 15th August 2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcg.insight.gardens

I think it was The Village of Stepanchikovo, it was a long time ago, maybe it was me at the time. Someone in my family gave it to me to read.

I think that it may be one of the secondhand book dealers whom I go to that is advertising that book, going to inquire about that when I go over next week to sell some books, have to have a bit of a clear out. I thought that book might appeal, since you were planning to travel that way. Just a coincidence really since we were discussing books. Oops. Well if you are going to buy it don't forget to barter.

Try Crime and Punishment, but save it for when you have time. It's a pretty big book and quite addictive.

jeffswede · 15th August 2010, 11:31 AM

You need a shave!
Jeff

dov · 15th August 2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffswede

You need a shave!
Jeff

Me? Naaah!

jeffswede · 15th August 2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dov

Me? Naaah!

Cool, let us know when you learn the"Bowline-on a beard"-knot. Don't look down! You're chin will be pulled thru your ( what is the name of the knot?)
Jeff

dov · 15th August 2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffswede

Cool, let us know when you learn the"Bowline-on a beard"-knot. Don't look down! You're chin will be pulled thru your ( what is the name of the knot?)
Jeff

It has gotten caught up in my prussik while ascending once or twice... I like it though - even if it does occasionally scare small children.

jeffswede · 15th August 2010, 12:11 PM

Just playing, Bro! cool tho.
Jeff

dov · 15th August 2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffswede

Just playing, Bro! cool tho.
Jeff

Haha! I don't mind. Still gotta figure out a way to stop it getting caught up in the ropes. If it ever got long enough to put a bowline in it, I'd just wear it as a scarf.

treeshaveneeds · 16th August 2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcg.insight.gardens

Sounds like you need a good botanical dictionary, helps me to key, I could'nt do without one. Explains what each term means ( eg. Geniculate: bent sharply, like a knee joint) Honestly without mine I would have trouble. They probably have one on the Net, I sometimes use Zipcodezoo if I think I know what a plant is, the Key is interactive, you click on each term to get an explanation, makes it a bit more fun. There are bound to be more. Let's face it, keying is hard if your not a trained botanist.

I have "The Language of Botany,C.Debenham, The Society for Growing Australian Plants" and an old Penguin Reference Book; Dictionary of Botany,1984, Elizabeth Tootill. They are both old books I picked up second hand. Between the two of them they suffice to get me through. I'd try the Net maybe.

Sounds like its tough in the economy your ways.

Welcome to ZipcodeZoo

Hi Julie I'm not sure you have to be a trained botanist, just a great memory for terms that only the nomenclaturists use - and while I know a fair number, glossaries are always expanding my knowledge..certainly geniculate wasn't part of it. However, i was actually referring to texts for other trees and plants -- the ones you mentioned - Cultivated Plants of the World, and Australian Trees sound like a good start. Most of my books don't have keys. It is not that they were cheap, they just expected you to have vast knowledge to start and add to it with more descriptions. But finding a plant (or tree) if you don't know? A lot of page turning.

And the economy? Sucks! Jobs are few - I did two days work last week, and this week 1-2 for sure, and at least one freebie. The phone has stopped ringing, never a good sign (especially only half way thru the season). And the politicians think our economy is still growing, and there is no need to boost the economy . It is hard to appreciate people are suffering when you get an automatic (great) salary, 3 months off in the summer, two in the winter and all is roses for you. Most of us would like enough to pay bills, buy food, and a time off? that's a real bonus. The last really good year we had was 1989. There's been a few half-hearted ones and a whole lot of losers. This one is the worst yet, after two bad years. I hear Australia hasn't been hit with a recession. That's great! KEep the economy up, down is no fun.

dov · 16th August 2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeshaveneeds

The phone has stopped ringing, never a good sign (especially only half way thru the season). \

Don't worry. When the bills mount up it will start ringing again! Just not calls you want to answer... Seriously I hope things shape up for you. I've got more work than I can handle here. Having to book customers weeks away already, but the late winter rains have bloody hit and the winds... Puts everything back even more.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 16th August 2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Most of my books don't have keys.

now I've got the idea,

it was hard to understand exactly what you need, I think I've got it now.

Here's some freebies, bookmark them when you open them. Not sure how good the book is, there might be better for your area, I use Flora books, here it's Flora of the Sydney Region, Flora of NSW, but if the University used it as a reference it must be good. Look for Flora books of your region.

Plant Identification System

Cope, E.A. Muenscher’s Key to Woody Plants: An Expanded Guide to Native and Cultivated Species. 2001. Cornell University Press, Ithaca, New York.

For Eucalyptus species
NSW eucalypts

keying Eucalyptus is a PITA

for Prunus
PRUNUS

Winter keys
Summer shoot or Winter twig?
Twig Key

regards

Julie

dov · 17th August 2010, 12:47 AM

Julie that Euc ID page looks fantastic! Thankyou! Does it have Corymbias as well?

jmcg.insight.gardens · 17th August 2010, 01:23 AM

Dov

it does Corymbia and Angophora as well, but NSW species, but there is bound to be species relevant to you.

O.k here's Wattles and Flora as well.

PlantNET - Keys and Descriptions

jmcg.insight.gardens · 17th August 2010, 01:31 AM

um fairly comprehensive image reference for Eucs, etc in the Myrtaceae section of this site, they are always handy, scroll down the list on the right, click on Myrtaceae.

eucs are a PITA to ID

APII - Search the Photo Index by plant family

dov · 17th August 2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcg.insight.gardens

Dov

it does Corymbia and Angophora as well, but NSW species, but there is bound to be species relevant to you.

O.k here's Wattles and Flora as well.

PlantNET - Keys and Descriptions

It has a nice dropbox for selecting which state near the top on the left.

sueann · 17th August 2010, 06:39 PM

lol Julie! I called the poor bloke windblown once. He'll have a complex now!

I have no idea where my family came from except we're all dark and tan up like koori's so maybe there's koori there somewhere! My name is really Susan-Ann, but I've always just been called Sueann, my grandmother was Susanne, I was named after her really.

I have a lot of gardening books, a few reference type ones, but the trouble with me is I go for the nice books about beautiful gardens and curl up and drool over the pics haha! and learn pretty much nothing.

My 2 favs atm is one called Garden Of a Lifetime which is about Dame Murdochs farm called Cruden Farm, it is a lovely book and pics are to die for!
Money, money money the Murdochs though, with a team of gardeners yada yada so if it looked liked crap you would have to be surprised!!

My other fav one is called Velvet Pears, it's hardbacked with an embroidered bookmark, glossy as, with a spare cover in the inside flap in case the one already there gets damaged! how considerate is that??
It's about a property down the south coast called Foxglove Spires and the pics are seriously beautiful as well.

This is it here and I'd love to go and stay there for a few days, but John reckons it would be boring and I'd spend all day wandering around the gardens and he'd be bored as batshit.

Foxglove Spires Open Garden - Tilba Tilba NSW

jmcg.insight.gardens · 17th August 2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

It has a nice dropbox for selecting which state near the top on the left.

well there you go, I hadn't noticed that. My turn to say thanks now,

jmcg.insight.gardens · 17th August 2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

I have no idea where my family came from except we're all dark and tan up like koori's so maybe there's koori there somewhere! My name is really Susan-Ann, but I've always just been called Sueann, my grandmother was Susanne, I was named after her really.

My second name is Anne, lots of people put them together so I'm sometimes called Julie-anne, my friends all call me Jules though.

Quote:

My 2 favs atm is one called Garden Of a Lifetime which is about Dame Murdochs farm called Cruden Farm, it is a lovely book and pics are to die for!
Money, money money the Murdochs though, with a team of gardeners yada yada so if it looked liked crap you would have to be surprised!!

Does it have good photos of the planting of the avenue of Corymbia (Eucalyptus) citriodora, Lemon scented Gums at Cruden Farm along the driveway? I so love that planting, it's quite famous really. Probably have a look at that book then. But I'm trying not to buy garden design books at the moment. Yes, rich people do have good gardens, usually because they can afford gardeners and Landscape Designers. I have worked for a couple of wealthy people whom get in there and work along side of you, but generally they just want it done for them. I don't mind though, they pay well enough.

sueann · 18th August 2010, 01:22 AM

There are several pics of them Julie, on p27 there's one where it's early morning and foggy as, but on p82 there is a lovely pic of them. Right next to a post and rail fence.

No wonder they're famous, they're really gorgeous.

She has lived there since 1928!! she was 19 my god! and she's still alive. Well, in the book she's still alive but maybe she's died since then? I don't know, it was printed in 2007.

windthrown · 18th August 2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sueann

lol Julie! I called the poor bloke windblown once. He'll have a complex now!

A complex? Me?

Hell, yes! Its called Bikki Complex III. I am just waiting to get my money out of escrow so I can send it all to you in Australia my darling. Then you will move here to my ranch in northern Oregon with your horses, dogs, kids and...

Is that a stuffed Roo there in the photo? It looks rather sureal.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 18th August 2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

There are several pics of them Julie, on p27 there's one where it's early morning and foggy as, but on p82 there is a lovely pic of them. Right next to a post and rail fence.

No wonder they're famous, they're really gorgeous.

She has lived there since 1928!! she was 19 my god! and she's still alive. Well, in the book she's still alive but maybe she's died since then? I don't know, it was printed in 2007.

Dame Murdoch is renowned to be character and a very opinionated and formidable Lady, I'd work on her garden any time, I like people with character. She turned 100 last year. As far as I'm aware she is still alive and probably giving her gardeners curry (Well I hope so anyway!)

100 years with Dame Elisabeth Murdoch | Crikey

jmcg.insight.gardens · 18th August 2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

A complex? Me?

Hell, yes! Its called Bikki Complex III

you have it bad Windthrown, bit of a goner I think............

the power of bikkies..........

windthrown · 19th August 2010, 12:42 PM

Well, in some cultures if a woman cooks for you, you are considered married. Here you are pretty much 'dating.'

Doing a guy's laundry here? You may as well be hitched.

But Anzac bikkies are good!

jeffswede · 19th August 2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windthrown

Well, in some cultures if a woman cooks for you, you are considered married. Here you are pretty much 'dating.'

Doing a guy's laundry here? You may as well be hitched.

But Anzac bikkies are good!

Guilty, I have been with Christie for 17 years. We have three girls, 16, 9, and 8. We are not married, just always lived like we were. I do not think common law marriage is valid in California.
Jeff

windthrown · 19th August 2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffswede

Guilty, I have been with Christie for 17 years. We have three girls, 16, 9, and 8. We are not married, just always lived like we were. I do not think common law marriage is valid in California.
Jeff

In theory common law is not recognized in Oregon either, but here after 7 years you may as well be married here (according to my lawyer friends). Also the western states have palimony rights, which translate to shared resources and assets after a period of time, typically 3 years. Also Oregon recognizes common law marriages for couples from any of the 15 states that recognize common law marriage. Also if you split up, the same laws apply to you and your children as if you were getting a divorce, with child support, visitation, etc.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 19th August 2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Is that a stuffed Roo there in the photo? It looks rather sureal.

you sure there wasn't something in those bikkies, has the cat been acting strangely?

14th August 2010, 03:10 PM	#31
treeshaveneeds Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,399	Re: Unknow berry... I like books myself - but have way too many at moment - both technical and general, and not enough space to display them. And lately, when I read a book, I just fall asleep. I guess when I asked about a reference book some time ago, I was looking for one that helped run thru the keys for unknown plants. Most of the books I have are pretty good, but you need to have an idea of what you are looking at, 'cause if you don't you're lost. I am not too worried about an out-of-print book - they sometimes become available. And haven't got money right now anyways. All a moot point....... Looking after elderly people can be quite draining. Way different from kids. Kids grow up, and eventually need less care. Elders tend to get worse and worse, need more and more care, and eventually you have to get help, or you don't survive, and then they suffer more. Plan ahead. Ancestry wise, I definitely have IRish and English on my Father's side, and he was 6th generation Canadian; my mother was from Scotland. So i'm a mix -- like most folks. Dad tanned so well, he generally started a season, where everyone else finished; Mom burned more than tanned. I'm a bit in the middle --never really tan a lot, but don't burn much either.

15th August 2010, 11:31 AM	#37
jeffswede Mature tree Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 279	Re: Unknow berry... You need a shave! Jeff

15th August 2010, 12:11 PM	#41
jeffswede Mature tree Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 279	Re: Unknow berry... Just playing, Bro! cool tho. Jeff

17th August 2010, 12:47 AM	#46
dov Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 651	Re: Unknow berry... Julie that Euc ID page looks fantastic! Thankyou! Does it have Corymbias as well? __________________

17th August 2010, 01:23 AM	#47
jmcg.insight.gardens Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mannering Park, Australia Posts: 623	Re: Unknow berry... Dov it does Corymbia and Angophora as well, but NSW species, but there is bound to be species relevant to you. O.k here's Wattles and Flora as well. PlantNET - Keys and Descriptions

17th August 2010, 01:31 AM	#48
jmcg.insight.gardens Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mannering Park, Australia Posts: 623	Re: Unknow berry... um fairly comprehensive image reference for Eucs, etc in the Myrtaceae section of this site, they are always handy, scroll down the list on the right, click on Myrtaceae. eucs are a PITA to ID APII - Search the Photo Index by plant family

17th August 2010, 06:39 PM	#50
sueann Former Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Australia Posts: 599	Re: Unknow berry... lol Julie! I called the poor bloke windblown once. He'll have a complex now! I have no idea where my family came from except we're all dark and tan up like koori's so maybe there's koori there somewhere! My name is really Susan-Ann, but I've always just been called Sueann, my grandmother was Susanne, I was named after her really. I have a lot of gardening books, a few reference type ones, but the trouble with me is I go for the nice books about beautiful gardens and curl up and drool over the pics haha! and learn pretty much nothing. My 2 favs atm is one called Garden Of a Lifetime which is about Dame Murdochs farm called Cruden Farm, it is a lovely book and pics are to die for! Money, money money the Murdochs though, with a team of gardeners yada yada so if it looked liked crap you would have to be surprised!! My other fav one is called Velvet Pears, it's hardbacked with an embroidered bookmark, glossy as, with a spare cover in the inside flap in case the one already there gets damaged! how considerate is that?? It's about a property down the south coast called Foxglove Spires and the pics are seriously beautiful as well. This is it here and I'd love to go and stay there for a few days, but John reckons it would be boring and I'd spend all day wandering around the gardens and he'd be bored as batshit. Foxglove Spires Open Garden - Tilba Tilba NSW

18th August 2010, 01:22 AM	#53
sueann Former Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Australia Posts: 599	Re: Unknow berry... There are several pics of them Julie, on p27 there's one where it's early morning and foggy as, but on p82 there is a lovely pic of them. Right next to a post and rail fence. No wonder they're famous, they're really gorgeous. She has lived there since 1928!! she was 19 my god! and she's still alive. Well, in the book she's still alive but maybe she's died since then? I don't know, it was printed in 2007.

19th August 2010, 12:42 PM	#57
windthrown Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,211	Re: Unknow berry... Well, in some cultures if a woman cooks for you, you are considered married. Here you are pretty much 'dating.' Doing a guy's laundry here? You may as well be hitched. But Anzac bikkies are good!

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