tree identification

todd j porter

Hello experts! Need your help on naming this tree. My neighbor has three in his back yard and they were there when he moved in several decades ago. He is now 84, and it was there then. The more I look at this tree the more I like I'd like to have one. I have picked a few cones for identification and taken several pics. Can I get a seed from these cones and try to get it to reproduce? Please explain.

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Eden Keeper

It is most likely red pine, Pinus resinosa Aiton, which happens to be the Minnesota state tree. Jack pine, Pinus banksiana Lamb., is also in the same area, but the cones are not as close a match (they are usually curved), while the paired needles eliminates eastern white pine, Pinus strobus L., and anything else would be either planted or way outside of the known range. I'm a little surprised there are no seedlings in the area after all this time (I get shortleaf, loblolly and/or Virginia pine seedlings coming up as weeds in flower pots that are left outside); perhaps the rate of seed predation is relatively high, otherwise there should be little if any problem growing such a pine tree from the seed even thought Karlstad, MN, is on or near the western fringe (southwestern boundary for jack pine) of the native range. The most important thing is to provide lots of light since they are shade intolerant. The cones release seed in the fall, but the seed require cold stratification before germinating in the spring. Symbiotic soil fungi is usually helpful; this is likely present in the soil under the trees and only a little soil in needed to inoculate a potting mix. Natural germination typically occurs on bare mineral soil such as after a fire (or other disturbance that exposes bare soil) so the seed could be direct planted is a prepared bed to avoid having to transplant the seedlings later. If planting outside this fall remove the wings so the seed don't blow away since the planting depth is relatively shallow and frost action can lift the seed (I've lost longleaf pine seedlings -- my respective state tree -- when uprooted that way since they don't need cold stratification and germinate in the fall).

todd j porter

Eden Keeper, Thank you so very much. I feel like an idiot, but am eager to learn. I spend countless hours in the woods and it's about time I learn what everything is. I have a great appreciation for our creators imagination and seemingly endless tree/plant varieties. My next question; can I cold stratify in a refridgerator and plant early? If I take some soil from under the existing trees will I have enough symbiotic soil? or, how can I get started with raising little red pines. My E-mail; porterboyd@wiktel.com thank you. Todd

Eden Keeper

One thing that never ceases to surprise me is the trees/shrubs that look like a combination of parts from several unrelated species similar to how a platypus is described. The refrigerator is where I do my cold stratification of seed I don't want to risk losing and certain things may need to be froze at least long enough to kill any insects (I found that out with sunflower seed that had a single digit germination rate at best). Just a handful of soil kept with the cold seed will suffice to inoculate them similar to legumes, although this is not critical any advantage can be helpful (since it is done with the southern pines and I've heard about a carnivorous fungus symbiotic with white pine it couldn't hurt to try an experiment to see if there is an effect). A search on specifics for growing red pine gave specific cultural requirements of full sun, well-drained, sandy loam soil, pH 4.5 - 6.5, and medium to dry moisture. Additionally red pine is (obviously) cold tolerant, not salt tolerant, and good for windbreaks.

Brent Ferris

Eden Keeper, why don't you think the tree is a Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris)? The needles in the photos appear to be twisted, typical of Scots Pine. Can't tell if the top of the trunks are orangey brown bark, but red pine needles are usually about 4 inches long, and not twisted.

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Eden Keeper

I have a blind spot for exotic species especially if outside of any documented naturalized range (with the nearest in this case being east central MN thus across the state) although weedy and/or overly popular things can get through my filter. The given history of the area also served as a misdirection, besides more than a handful would have been expected in prior plantings similar to one near me where a grove of slash pine was logged (salvage due to pine beetles) and the likely explanation for any being here was a bundle of seedlings being mixed with the loblolly seedlings that were distributed generations ago. There was also a lack of diligence in consulting all my reference material, specifically the keys mentioned, but either way I would have likely gave the same identification due to the needles seeming longer than the cones (indicating the importance of scale and perspective in making identifications based on the keys).
Note to Todd: learning to key things out is the best place to start, and with practice and experience the identifications will become easier if not automatic; learning the scientific names is also important (I made my own flash cards) since it often indicates a definitive key while the history of the authority (the person(s) who first named and described the species) is often interesting.

todd j porter

The needles are about two inches and yes, they are twisted. The top half of the trunk/branches are very orange in color. I will get more pics tomorrow. Found hundreds of cones today at the base of the tree. I will collect some dirt tomorrow from under the tree for the stratification process. Thank you all for helping. TJ

todd j porter

here are some more pics of the tree, hope this helps identify it.

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Brent Ferris

That is Scots Pine (Pinus sylvestris)

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)