Tree or Bush?

Rookie Gardener

I live in Zone 9-10 in Vista CA. I don't know what this is but I have the one in the picture and 5 more started. Please help me figure it out.

Eric Frei

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Rookie Gardener

Okay trying again. Thank you for removing my links. I was freaking out a bit there with one of the links on it.

So help me identify this tree in Southern California coastal area please.

cte539

Looks like Buckthorn
Possibly European Buckthorn, Rhammus cathartica
or Glossy Buckthorn, Rhammus frangula.
Hard to say which one from photos. Possibility of photo of fruit or flower?
There are 12 species of buckthorn native to North America
Considered a small tree or a large shrub
Can get 20 feet tall
Paul

Brent Ferris

I think it looks a lot like a buckthorn as well - if so has blue black berries - dubiously edible, but give you the runs. Need pics of end of branches, closeup of leaves, fruit, and if have them, pics of flowers.

Rookie Gardener

Buckthrorn has never come up when I was trying to identify it. I will take some more pictures today and put them on here. I can't recall ever seeing any flowers or fruit on it. It does seem to grow as a bush though.

Chimera

It does look like Buckthorn; however, I don't think it is.

Buckthorn has subopposite leaf arrangement on the stem. These pictures show it to be just plain opposite.

I think it's some sort of chokecherry.

bsearcey

I vote cherry. Leaves are alternate. Veination in the leaves does not look like buckthorn (just going by pics on the web). Bark looks like cherry as well.

Rookie Gardener

Here are more pictures. The last one is of a bird nest but you can see the upper branches in it. I don't think is is chokecherry. I remember them from the east coast and I don't think I have seen one around here.

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Brent Ferris

Ok leaves are not much like Buckthorn, bark isn't dark enough, but leaves are too coarsely serrated for cherry -- maybe a plum?

Chimera

I invite you to scratch a living part of the twig until you see green, then smell.
You might pick up an interesting scent, although, you might not.

=D

So we're all pretty sure it's not a Buckthorn. Just to make sure, I want to point out that some of the leaf petioles are red, and I don't think that happens with any Buckthorn.

So who's an expert on cherries/plums/whatever else it could be?
And since it doesn't produce visible fruit, are we sure it's one of those?

Brent Ferris

Dov or Julie might be able to identify it - but flowers help a lot.

Brent Ferris

There is no guarantee it doesn't produce fruit or flowers - just none observed. Knowing the species would give an idea when and where to look for flowers - catch 22.

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Rookie Gardener

I scratched a twig and it really didn't smell like anything. Maybe a hint of watermellon.

dcarter

Maybe it's a watermelon tree!!! If so, keep a close eye for fruit!! Falling fruit could kill you!!!

Seriously though-

I'd bank on Black Cherry, prunus serotina. Are they all growing in a fence line or area where birds would land and scatter seed with droppings? Could help ID it.

Rookie Gardener

Well no one has been able to identify it yet. I look up Black Cherry. It is on fence line but the only other trees are growing off its roots. I moved them closer to the fence and they survived nicely. Still no fruit or anything growing on it though. The leaves are yellowing and falling off a bit now that it is fall. I don't recall if they all fell off last fall.

dov

The tips look kinda like cherry, but the leaves look like a plum. Leave it with me... Gotta research. I agree that they were most likely planted by the birds.

Bowani Siam

Perhaps Aronia melanocarpa? I can only get a snap of the juvenile bark.... hmmmmm tricky!

Rookie Gardener

My neighbor thought it was some kind of a plum tree that never produced any fruit. He is no expert though. Since the people who owned this home before me planted numerous varities of trees it wouldn't surprise me if they actually planted this one. I don't see any others like it around my area. I will look up the Aronia Melancarpa and take a look. The black cherry has certainly looked the most like the tree. Someone had a blog about it when I Googled the name. They have many pictures and all except for the fruit it looked like it.

Eden Keeper

Due to the pruning it looks very vigorous (especially for a shrub like black chokeberry, Aronia melanocarpa (Michx.) Elliot, which I grow near the southern extent of the natural range in zone 7a, although the leaves are very similar, where having glaborous (not fuzzy) leaves is the key to separate if from the other native species in the same genus, I haven't seen lenticels (the light colored places on the bark) like those shown on the older wood) so I would suspect it is either a plum or a cherry where a mature black-cherry leaf has orange fuzz along the midvein on the underside. If it is a cherry/plum and doesn't go dormant in zone 9-10 then it will probably never get the chilling hours required to produce flower buds (like tulips the second year) much less fruit, and it would be marginal at best if otherwise. Some plants won't even leaf back out if is it not cold enough for long enough (like tulips after a few years).

Rookie Gardener

The leaves have turned mostly yellow and about half the tree is bare now. The smaller ones I transplanted are also loosing leaves. It has been down to freezing several nights in the last 2 weeks but that won't last all winter. It would be great to see flowers or something next spring so we could really identify it.

jmcg.insight.gardens

Hi Rookie Gardener

I'm not familiar with your native species but I was thinking it could be a Prunus angustifolia or Chickasaw plum.

The following link has some excellent photos to compare it to, and I have compiled a comparison piece. It looks like it has been pruned heavily, perhaps the new growth is not mature enough to fruit.

What would nail it, is the distinctive buds near the leaf apexes. Even though it might no longer have leaves these buds should be apparent. Try taking a photo of where the leaf joins the stems, there will be a scar apparent, it would help to identify it more certainly.

Have a look at these links and see what you think.

If it is this species it is endangered.

Hope this might help.

Julie

Bioimages

Attached Files

Prunus angustifolia.pdf (351.1 KB, 24 views)

Rookie Gardener

Thank you Julie. The bark looks right and the leaves. It was heavily prunned a few times. I will make some more comparisons.