Need help with ID

MikeSwim07

Hi,

I have about 4 trees that I need help identifying. I though it would be easier to post multiple threads instead of all in one.

I'm not sure what kind of tree this is. The tree is usually one of the last to lose its leaves, and usually has about 1/4 of its dead leaves on it throughout winter.

I have never seen any flowers, seeds produced from this tree. I have another one of these on the other side of my house. Could both of these be males?

If you need more pictures I can get more

Thanksss!

Attached Thumbnails

         

Darrell Mcleod

Long shot

Privet of some sort

MikeSwim07

Hmm, I am not sure that is it.

Thanks for trying!

This tree is at least 30+ feet tall. The diameter is about a foot.

cte539

Black Gum
Nyssa sylvatica

Brent Ferris

Privet usually has opposite branching. Black Gum seems much more likely,

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MikeSwim07

Hi,

So I was reading up on the black gum. I read somewhere that says the leaves turn red in the fall, which I am pretty sure they don't.

Also, I'm pretty sure that these 2 gums I have don't produce seeds. Does this mean that they could both be males?

Thanks again

Brent Ferris

According to my reference, the flowers of Black Gum can be either male or female on different trees, but the flowers can also be perfect ie both male/female parts together. It is one of those variable trees.

Hard to say about the fall colour. Might be a result of the environment, if the tree's growth is stunted, or something is missing -- just guessing. I know there are a number of species in my area that are supposed to go yellow, for example, but in stressful years you see some go red. At least one species is supposed to turn red, but seldom does. Not an answer for you -- but others here can probably comment better, those with a deeper knowledge of plant chemistry.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

MikeSwim07

So it can be normal for a tree to not release seeds because of some environmental factors?

Eden Keeper

This struck me as being shingle oak, Quercus imbricaria Michx., because the tight group of buds near the end of the twig in the third photo.

MikeSwim07

Hmm, interesting.

How can I determine if it is a shingle oak or a black gum? What other information/pictures should I provide?

Eden Keeper

The pith of both is continuous, but in oaks it is homogeneous while in black gum there are diaphragms. This can be seen by doing a longitudinal cross section through the center of a twig. For comparison also check the pith of black walnut (discussed in another active thread that you started) since it is chambered, which means that it is hollow between the diaphragms. The branches of black gum are usually horizontal and the bark of a larger tree tends to be blocky rather than the more continuous longitudinal ridges on many oaks including shingle oak.

MikeSwim07

Hi,

Here are some more pictures of the the branches and the bark.

I am not really sure how to do the cross section of the twig. Can you help me?

Attached Thumbnails

   

Eden Keeper

The photos of the branches and bark really look like an oak. There are lots of ways to get to the pith for a lengthwise cross section, which one is easier depends on the size of the twig. Hand pruners work fine for about pencil size and up, good scissors can do smaller, and any size can be whittled down with a sharp knife. The cross section doesn't have to be straight through since a shallow angle can actually be more revealing.

Brent Ferris

I agree with Eden Keeper, the structure of the tree and branches, and the bark look a lot like oak. Not familiar with shingle oak.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

MikeSwim07

Thanks for the help!

Does the branch that you cut in half have to be alive and about 1/2-1in. in diameter?

I cut in half a small twig (4-5mm) and it seemed pretty homogeneous to me. Is this too small?