8ft Weed or am I a tree?

carmenk2

Hi All, great site, first post here

After digging out my books, and surfing the net for over 2 hours
Trying to ID what ever is growing in my back yard ..
I found many leaf's that were close, yet no cigar.

Hoping you can help me out here. I am not sure if this is a weed or ?

Was here when I bought my house 3 years ago and it and remained the same size ( around 2.5 ft high slow pace growth). This spring it became mighty mouse and doubled in size from last year. Now it's huge.

It is not well either, has some type of disease, from top to bottom. The trunk appears healthy, the leaves however are in pretty poor shape. With the naked eye I do not see insect activity. It seems that I have another that is exactly alike that has popped up- right now it is only a foot tall. Which I am going to remove.

To give you the proportion of the leaf size- all are under 1 1/2 inches. Most are an inch or less.

All replies will be greatly appreciated.


Thank you so much
Carmen

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Joey Meister

it looks to me like a chinese elm,Ulmus parvifolia. as for the insect problem i think it is mostly cosmetic, i see these trees with so many holes in the leaves that i don't know how the leaf is alive.

MoDirt

2nd pick looks like Alnus, 3rd pick looks like something growing in the Alnus

Brent Ferris

I think Alnus usually has longer leaves. Might also be Siberian Elm (Ulmus pumila) . Do you have any pics of flowers or fruit (seeds) on the trees? or closeups of the stem bark? BOth Siberian and Chinese Elms grows fast once established,

__________________
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MoDirt

The leaves look to stout to be Chinese Elm but now I think I am triple guessing. Siberian Elm mabye.

Can you post a pic of the bark?

Rob Chace

siberian elm.

usually riddle with insects and looking like this:



http://bit.ly/mP3N2k

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carmenk2

Thank you for all your replies. I will have to look up the types of trees and compare them - with the giant growing in my back yard.

Its so strange, never have I ever seen anything like it. It is shaped like a Christmas tree. I added two more photos. To show the trunk, and then the branches start at 4, 5inches from ground level.
The trunk is light gray with very thin skin, not bark, but think gray skin.

The other photo is the leaf close up. This little creature is growing on its own about 4 feet away, and has the exact same leaf. Again the leaf is no larger than an inch long. That is the largest " leaf" about an inch long. The rest are much smaller.

Thank you again for your assistance.
C

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carmenk2

I am new here, sorry If I screw this up.
Rob, thank you for the photo. Not the same leaf though. Bummer.

Brent Ferris

Your photos and description still sound/look like Siberian Elm. Since you feel it is not Siberian Elm, pls post a pic of a short branch 4-6 inches long, with the leaves laid flat, and with at least one of them upside down -- need to see base of leaf, petiole, edge of leaves (margin), arrangement on stem, ruler for scale and maybe we can identify the species. And perhaps you could tell us why the leaf looks different from Siberian Elm,

__________________
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If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
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carmenk2

Hi
Looking at the photo of the " eaten leaves" does not look like the leaves on my tree/shrub/green giant.

I did now look up on images online the Siberian Elm and the leaf is very similar.

I have more photos, I hope they are not duplicates. I cannot see as I post what photos I have already added.

Have to see how these photos appear on the board.
Patience is a virtue

C

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carmenk2

Treeluver
Do these pictures help with the puzzle?

Sorry for my endless posts. I am not savvy in Trees.

I did look up photos of the Siberian Elm.
I am confused though. Is there versions of a Siberian Elm.
The one's I see online are a long tree trunk with the leaves at the top- like a tree is to be. I do not recall mine turning yellow in the fall. Not to the extent of some of my other shrubs, which do turn incredibly vibrant yellow gold.
TreeLuver if this is a Siberian Elm, can it be pruned?

It's branches start at ground level and there is no trunk "neck".



http://bit.ly/oJS23A

Shows two photos of Siberian Elm

Copied from site link above:
Siberian Elm (tree)
(Ulmus pumila)

zone: 2
height: 15 m, 50 ft
spread: 11 m, 16 ft
foliage: small, green leaves, yellow in fall

Fast growing spreading tree with fine branching. Brittle wood breaks easily, which could be a problem in open land and when ice forms on its branches in the winter. We planted it Jun-2007 and will see how it does. Right now it looks a bit small next to the 6 meter (20 feet) tall poplars.
We would have loved to plant an American Elm, but we settled for the Siberian Elm as it is resistant to Dutch elm disease. However, play it safe, and prune dead/sick branches immediately and destroy. Also pull seedlings unless you like to start a nursery.

The second picture shows what the elm looks like in August 2009.
---
I live in South Eastern Michigan if that helps with Zones.

Thank you again,
C

carmenk2

Sorry I meant to reply to you TreehaveNeeds -
I am new here so I still trying to figure out posting.
The questions and link of Siberian Elm I posted.
If you can offer anything please do.
Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate your help.
C

Rob Chace

your second photo only makes me more inclined to believe my original thoughts - Sib Elm.

just my 2cents

carmenk2

Robstar,

Hello there. Do you have Siberian Elms on your property?
Can you prune them? Mine (if it is) looks like a freak of nature and its still growing.

I do not know how BIG do they get?
Its right up against the fence line that I share with the neighbor and its not really pretty to look at. It's very sparse at the top and middle and fat at the bottom like a Christmas tree.

Will it ever have a trunk like a tree with leaves at the top? Or will it continue to remain looking like a over grown Christmas tree?

If it is able to be pruned and trimmed ..what shape and how? I don't know if it can be cut to be " shorter and shaped " ? or will that permanently damage the poor ugly tree?

Thank you RobStar
C

KevinE

I'm wondering if its a sucker? Are there any large elm trees on neighboring properties? Especially look for Golden Elm, as they frequently graft it onto a more vigorous elm rootstock. I often see suckers growing in peoples yards that originate from one or more Golden Elms in neighboring properties. My customer usually hasn't put one & one together, because the leaves on the suckers are so different from the leaves on the Golden Elms.

Brent Ferris

Prune whatever you want, whenever you want - Siberian Elms grow fast, up to 18" + per year, and they keep coming back. Some people use them as hedges, so vigorous pruning makes little difference to growth habit.,

Expect the trees to reach a mature height of 80-100 ft, a lifespan of 70-90 years, breakage of branches in storms, and they do tend to become leggy.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

carmenk2

Kevin, I live a in a city that is known for Trees. Huge giant Oaks. Huge giant trees are in my neighborhood. That is the beauty of our city. The Trees are amazing. So tall you can get dizzy trying to view them by looking up.

What I know I have in my yard, I have 2 Oaks that are impossible to see to the their tops- side of my house - I have a Maple that is center of my back yard that is a giant, its such a friendly tree, my fave tree. I have an amazing growing crooked " Cedar" tree that is towards the front side of my house. I worry that it is grown into my house. My backyard is enormous.

I have too a tree that is sky high, not on my property that hangs over into my yard. It to produce millions of "Mulberries". I have a giant fir tree of what species I do not know. It too, taller than my eyes can see. The trunk is of no branches - till about twenty feet - then the branches start. I have in my backyard a huge twisted Box Elder Tree. Its a tree of mystery. I had a guy come out when I first moved into my house. He was with the city, to check my water. He went into my backyard and said he did Tree removal, tree trimming on the side. He said that the Box Elder Tree was a beast and needed to be cut down. The previous owners Kevin, I have no clue why, but they put a huge link chain around the base of the tree trunk. It had grown into the actual trunk rusted. Was wrapped around with many layers. Looked like John Deere tractor tire chains. I had help and we removed the chains.
The poor tree weeped for days - it was a sticky fluid. All the trees had something stuck into them- huge metal spikes. Or metal things to hold clothes lines - Or metal to hang water hoses.. I had them all pulled. The trees to weep and heal after months.

I did not listen to the guy who said my Box Elder Tree was a beast - I left it. It's an old wicked looking tree - but I like it. It offers my yard huge shade and Its amazing to look at. I am glad its still in my yard. It is a Box Elder that offer's the whirly gigs - that I find of no harm. We called them helicopters when I was a child.

I have 11 Lilac's (height very tall) that are to the one corner and a few spread around. I know what they are - and I have some other flowering shrubs that I have no clue what they are. They are to offer white flowers like jasmine flower, not sure what it is - they smell so wonderful. What they are? I don't know, this year was their first appearance.

This wild thing that has grown in my yard - the Unnamed was when I first moved in - was very tiny. It was to appear to resemble from my Grandparents property a " Butterfly bush". I thought that was what it was. It was small and low to the ground. It was in the shape of a flame. I thought it was cute.. and left it alone. Within the next year it grew some, it was to be around 3, 4ft tall. Within the last year it has tripled in size and its just what it is. Its all there by itself and I think it too became - due to a seed planted. Probably by a squirrel. I have tons of squirrels in my yard. They make Condo's I call them. They when cleaning or nesting throw their discards all year round. It is what it is. Nature.

This Thing though that is of what - is not but taking up space. If it is going to continue to grow and be as it is - I am not sure that I want it. I planted near it when it was tiny - A King Crimson Maple Sapling. It/new Maple to have plenty of space to grow into the earth and grow as tall as it wishes. At the time, this thing was 3 feet tall - about 5 feet away. My King Crimson is still in my eyes a baby. Its about 12 feet tall, and slowly filling out. It has priority.

I hate to kill anything and If this is a tree and will one day become something that is worth keeping - I will leave it. But it if it is going to be a strangler or one that is no benefit to my wildlife and or existing trees - I would think it would be better gone.

I don't know what to do.
Thank you for allowing me to rant and sigh. I love my yard and I want whats best for my existing " Souls" they are that.. some to be over 90 yrs old. My house was built in 1924, I am sure they built the house within the trees standing. They didn't plant them for " landscaping" back then.

If anyone can recognize the white flower within the flowering tree - I would love to know what it is. This year it came up for the first time. They have a beautiful aroma.

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carmenk2

Thank You Trees have needs - please see my response to Kevin - any thoughts?

I was thinking of you the other day, You are so knowledgeable like everyone is here - but for some reason I thought of your posts. My friend has just taken up photography. She went to a place that has a huge outdoor amazing fest of nature. She found a flower that was very unique and she said it smelled like heaven. Her never to see such a flower before. Because it doesn't look like a flower. They look like spikey pom poms - if that makes sense.

Attaching a photo - any thoughts on what this may be? she is dying to know, my friend. Or if anyone knows what this is - please offer

Thank you THN.

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Brent Ferris

Maybe Eden Keeper can identify this one for you. it looks familiar, can't place it at moment. What kind of site was it growing in? near water? sand flat? sun? shade?

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

carmenk2

Trees,

The plant, with the spikey flower that is ?? my friend took the photo at Cranbrook Botanical Garden - a snip of description of Cranbrook:

Cranbrook House and Gardens stands as a centerpiece of Cranbrook’s 319-acre National Historic Landmark campus. From May through October, visitors can experience the grandeur of both the House and the Gardens with guided and self-guided tours.

Please wait...

She spent over 2 hours wandering within the acres with her camera. This plant though caught her " Nose" she said I have never smelled anything so wonderful. I hope this helps. I am sure she could contact them, but then again who knows 319 acres of flora like the back of their hand?

Thank you for your reply Trees
C

Eden Keeper

The plant with spherical flowers is common buttonbush, Cephalanthus occidentalis L., it is also known as globeflower and very locally in my area as balled willow. It is a honey plant and is often found growing in standing water.

Brent Ferris

Do you know anymore about the plant Eden Keeper?
So buttonbush must be able to absorb oxygen from the water - I assume it does not exist in stagnant water (?), and tolerate low oxygen levels? Or do you think the plant absorbs its oxygen needs from lenticels on the stems, and thru the leaves?

And does it grow reasonably well on a moist upland site? any soil type?

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Eden Keeper

Where I see buttonbush it is along lake, pond, and stream margins as well as in floodplains, swamps, and bogs. It is an obligate wetland plant that is intolerant of either dry or alkaline soil. Where in standing water this condition is seasonal and there seems to be a depth cutoff although that may indicate the range of normal fluctuation. The water can be stagnate and becomes more so the further below normal seasonal levels it gets although the plants are well up on the shore at that point. This implies that is gets enough oxygen from lenticels although those plants in standing water the most appear stunted. Another use is for erosion control in wetlands. I found out that in California a common name is button willow. Due to the white flowers the homophone bald-willow may be as valid as balled-willow besides being the way I would have spelled it before learning both the scientific name and the other common names.

carmenk2

Eden Keeper,
Thank you so much for offering the information. I am so excited to tell my friend. She will just flip to find out. This aroma from this " flower" captured her. She is a organic girl and loves natural non synthetic scents(me too). She and I both worked for years in Spa and we worked with essential oils non synthetic aromas. A huge difference from perfumes etc today mass marketed. Even with essential oils, you either love them or hate them and most is due to reaction of not only scent but the mood reaction they can cause. This aroma from the " Globe-flower you named" to her smelled clean, slightly sweet yet indifferent - to the point she was OMG if I don't find out what this is .. it just left her mind boggled. So thank you for your info - She will be very Happy!! To finally know what the mystery flower is. The mystery spikey ball of wonder scent. Have you had the same reaction from the globe flower? were you able to smell it?



Eden if I can ask you, would you possibly know what the white flower is on my pics - its the 3rd photo of my last post. They popped up this spring for the first time. So pretty yet I have no clue where they came from or what they are.. Any thoughts? Looks almost like white Jasmine but I have no clue. I don't know if Jasmine grows naturally in my zone. Michigan. Nothing has ever appeared on the tree's until this spring and it produced these lovely white flowers. ( Jasmine was just a thought, to offer as they appear like)

Thank U so Much
C

carmenk2

Thank YOU too for asking for more info Trees - I find the info fascinating. Without you asking I would not have learned as much.
I sent the info to my friends email. ( hugs) C - she will be very grateful. Otherwise she would have to go back and try to track that one flower and she would be of insanity -I know this.

Eden Keeper

The white flower in the third photo is a mock orange and the genus is Philadelphus L., which has several virtually indistinguishable (especially for landscape use) species. If it is scented it is most likely sweet mock orange, P. coronarius L., which is widely planted while native species include scentless mock orange, P. inodorus L., streambank mock orange, P. hirsutus Nutt., and hoary mock orange, P. pubescens Loisel.; note that the specific epithet of the later two means nearly the same thing respectively comparable to hairy and fuzzy. None of these have a native or naturalized range that includes Michigan so this also implies sweet mock orange since it is more likely to be planted due to the fragrance.

Even though I grow some I haven't notice the fragrance of the buttonbush, but some of my favorites for fragrance are sweetshrub, Calycanthus floridus L., southern crab apple, Malus angustifolia (Aiton) Michx., swamp azalea, Rhododendron viscosum (L.) Torr., devilwood (a native tea-olive), Osmanthus americanus (L.) Benth. & Hook. f. ex A. Gray, and various species of phlox, Phlox L., although the later is not a tree or shrub, but at least there are some species in your range unlike the others and jasmine. As for as jasmine those with white flowers are not native while the evening trumpetflower, Gelsemium sempervirens (L.) W.T. Aiton, has yellow flowers and is found here although in the landscape trade it is more often called Carolina jessamine and due to the fragrance it gets confused with the other mostly tropical jasmines especially where it is hardy (zone 7-8) in comparison.

Brent Ferris

Eden keeper - In your experience, do any of the mockorange species have exfoliating bark?

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Eden Keeper

Yes, one year old wood and sooner if the growth is vigorous starts splitting and exfoliating on of all those I've seen although it is not as notable as either oakleaf hydrangea, Hydrangea quercifolia Bartram, which is also known as seven-bark, or common ninebark, Physocarpus opulifolius (L.) Maxim., orth. cons. Earlier I forgot to mention that another common name for mock-orange is summer-dogwood considering the relative timing and appearance of the flowers while the common name of mock-orange likely relates to its substitution for orange blossoms in bridal bouquets.

carmenk2

--

Wow,
Thank You Eden. It must be Sweet Mock Orange with the aroma. The aroma is delicate and light and very nice I wish I had more of them in my yard. I have my Lilacs, which are my very favorite. They were extremely short lived this year. So SAD. We had a cold snap and lots of rain = which took them away too soon. I told my girlfriend of your findings on the little white spikey flower. We called it Horton's little WHO are You Flower, Now we know

Thank You again for all your help.
C