#2 - South Australia tree identification, needed...!

George Valentine

Oh folks, this one was alluded me for nearly 3 years now and despite various attempts made to identify it/them, I still haven't reached a conclusion.

These were a group of trees that were planted nest to a patch of Macrocarpa's, about 80 years ago. While the Macrocarpa's were more in a group and close to the road, these other trees where planted very close to a fence that has now a group of houses built all along it.

About 3 years ago, I was given the cut and clean up of a large (larger of the group) Macrocarpa that has had a major split through its various trunks, leaving half of it standing up and the other half on the ground.

While working of this large Macrocarpa, I notice that, these 3 or 4 trees near the fence, where looking pretty diseased, looking half dead, particularly the larger and the one furthest to the left (on the pics attached), I saw that the trunks were rotting away.

I passed on my concerns to the property owner and offered to cut them down but, he decided to give them away to someone else to cut and dispose (an ex-employee that didn't like that I got the Macrocarpa...!)

Anyway, those trees were cut down and little wood was taken away as most of the trunks sections here pilled-up in the same place where I pile the branches of the Macrocarpa and burnt them, just about 20 meters away...!

I have some difficulty in access the paddock gate to salvage those trunks from the pile and for 3 years I did thing that they would be burn in the burning season and losing them but, for whatever reason, they were left there to rot even more and no attempt was made to burn the wood pile so, and after some effort, I menage to get that wood out.

There is lots of surface burls in those trunks and while some wood was already unusable when the trees were cut, being exposed to the weather for another 3 years, did rot even more but, there were parts/areas of the wood that was intact and of great qualities for wood-turning...!

The wood that is sound is quite dense, while the spalted areas are quite soft, obviously, still, I reckon the wood is of medium to high density.

One other amazing characteristic of this wood species is that, the same log will produce half a dozen of different types/grain and colours on wood, making it easy to have half a dozen different wood blanks processed, all different from each other...!

No one seem to know what these trees are/were, and all the pics I've got from them, are pics that were taken when I was working on the Macrocarpa and where you can see them in the background. I never had the chance to take dedicated pics of those trees before they were cut down, nor did I know they have been dropped by someone else, until months later...!

I'm attaching what I've got of the tree, while they were still standing up and some pics of the wood itself, the day I got it out so, I only can hope that the "experts" here can recognize what it is, which I would be moist grateful for...!

Cheers
George

Attached Thumbnails

           

           

 

George Valentine

Now, some pics of the wood itself...!

PS: I cut what I can use for wood turning, and firewood, I make also available to everyone, any of the blanks I process for turning or otherwise, to those that are interested in all my local wood species that I salvage...!

Cheers
George

Attached Thumbnails

           

     

Brent Ferris

Do you have any closeups of the foliage and the bark?

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George Valentine

Sorry mate but, when I got to the wood, the branches/leafs etc, were non-existent after 3 years in the dirt and grass, I may be able to look for a log that still has the bark attached but, on the pic #1 (wood in the trailer), you can see that part of the bark was still attached, particularly on those bulges which are in fact burled wood, the bark there got stuck mainly due the the rough formation of the inner layers. I will try to get closer to a piece of remove it so that you can see both sides...!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

Sorry, for my delay in replying but, I have been waiting for the opportunity to get some of the bigger logs I've got on top of this wood and only today, I manage to do so...!

As I said, even the bark is hard to find as most has come off handling this wood so what I've got left is not much but I got a few close-ups for you to have a look.

You can see that, is a fairly new/green bark at the branch protrusion, trying to heal-up but the tree was cut before it had the chance. This is the only new/fresh (even tough the trees were cut 3 years ago), that I could find on my logs, the rest is either non-existent or stuck on the tops of the burled wood...!

Does this helps...???

Cheers
George

Attached Thumbnails

       

Brent Ferris

Might be Manitoba Maple.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

George Valentine

Thanks, I will look into that tree species name and see if I can find anything that can match my stuff...!

Sometimes, what it takes is a name base for a search, even if the tree is only a sub-species, but calling the tree species pics catalogue on a search, I tent to get an answer is most cases but not all, particularly if the name "clue" is no correct, such life...!

Cheers
George

Brent Ferris

Manitoba maple - Acer negundo

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

George Valentine

I have looked at many pics of the Box Elder, trying to find a match, while there is some resemblance in the bark, the trees look also identical in shape not forgetting that these trees were planted as shade trees in the beginning of last century and Box Elders are know to be planted as such BUT, the wood is all wrong for the Box Elder, miles out so, your suggestions was most appreciated but, ain't it...!

Any other suggestions most welcome...!

Cheers
George

Brent Ferris

is it possible to post a cross section of the wood (and a tangential and longitudinal section of the wood), as seen under a 10x (or stronger) hand lens?

Are you discounting Box Elder because it is sometimes shown with pink-red streaks - a result of bacterial infections as the wood decays?

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

George Valentine

Brent,

Well, I don't thing that I can say with all certainly, that this is not Box Elder, I may believe that the wood doesn't have any resemblance with the Box Elder I know/seen, therefore my over the top conclusion.

I'm most interested in get a correct name to this wood so, try to fulfill some of your requirements to assist with its identification, is of my interest so I will try to work with you, no problems there...!

I have an USB/electronic microscope that goes up to X300, this could provide some more/better detail on the sections of wood you requested, would this be a better option...???

I'm also finishing to sort some of the pen blanks I made from some of this wood. This I believe would be interesting for you to see as each type of wood (colour, grain, texture, etc...!) is enhanced with a coat of hot wax that, brings out all its features..!

I've got a fair number of different blanks/groups processed from the same log, one would swear that they are different wood species all together, I hope this will give you some clues to its identification, I will be ready in a few days...!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

OK treeshaveneeds,

Here are the pics I promised...!

I have used a piece from this #33BT tree that was part of a large branch and not from the butt, where all the surface burled stuff is.

The first lot of pics are taken with my Kodak Z990 and the second lot was taken with my USB digital microscope and the zoom is about X230

The blank has all the sides numbered so that you know which face/side the pic belongs to.

Obviously, a lot of the detail was lost on the reduction of the pic size to comply with the forum's regulations so it the detail is not sufficient I can send you the pics directly vial email. USB pics are about 800KB each and the Kodak camera are about 4MB each.

Let me know if they are of some use to you...!

Thank you, for you continued support on my tree species identification needs...!

Cheers
George

Attached Thumbnails

           

         

George Valentine

OK, I don't think that my pics efforts, where of much help, which is not a total surprise, and that is OK by me...!

However, in the continued efforts to identify these trees, yesterday I manage to speak with one of the previous residents from one the houses built near where the trees were standing, and it happens that this fellow moved elsewhere but we run into each other at the local hardware store and when I asked him if he knew the name of those 4 tree in question, he immediately said, yes but when he tried to say its name, it just couldn't get it out of his brain and started to "mumble" Ghost.... Ghost... damn, I just can't get it out...!

For a second I've though that was my lucky day but quickly I realise that it wasn't going to be. However, he provided me with to golden pieces of information, one is that he also know where the lady that was living in the house that one of the trees dumped a humongous branch over her roof, lives now, actually the lady that initiated the whole complain about these trees, and the reason why they were removed after being condemned by a local arborist.

So I know have an address to go where I'm pretty certain I will get the name of these trees, once and for all but, and until I get the opportunity to try to visit her, I was also told that, these tree thinner branches are used often by the plant/flower shops for their twisted and curled shapes. Apparently they are used in many flower arrangements, the dry type arrangements and I reckon, I've seen a few around.

So, I gathered a hand full of these top/ends branches, now over dry and rotting away, and took a couple of pics to take to some florist and nurseries in the area, in the hope they recognise what they are from...!

At the same time, is very possible that this new information and the couple of pics I took of these twisted branches, does ring a bell of some of you experts in these issues and if so, I would love to hear the suggestions you may have...!

Cheers
George

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Bowani Siam

They use the contorted, twisted branches of Tortured Willow - Salix matsudana 'Tortuosa' in floristry.

Here are a bunch of Salix cross-sections.
http://www.rarewoodsandveneers.com/p...rarewood55.htm


This is a weed in a lot of parts of Australia.!

Bowani Siam

ALSO, looking at the pics in the first post they definitely look like Salix. The cultivar 'Tortuosa' is hugely susceptible to canker and is usually a short-lived, weak-ass tree, so not surprisingly they were in poor condition.

They are an easily propagated weed. A tiny 3cm cutting will strike easily. One chap I know chipped up one of these trees and used it to mulch his garden. Hey presto! - more willows born!

There are heaps of them in the Southern Highlands of NSW (Bowral especially, because they are 'so lovely and remind us of England' - puke).

George Valentine

Thanks mate, that's a start...!

I have had a look at some pics of these trees on the web and I don't remember to see some of the characteristics showing, particularly the long wiping type Willow trees, and the thin twisted branches don't look what I remember from those trees, however and according to the "clue" that fellow gave to me, is very possible that you are correct.

I don't know if there are other tree species that are used for their twisted branches by the florists but, and everything goes according to plan, I should be able to speak to the lady that got them cut, this weekend and if so, I'm very confident I will get the tree species name...!

It has been well over 3 years of searching for the correct answer so, what is a few extra days of waiting...???

Cheers
George

Brent Ferris

Great reference to wood samples. And tortured or corkscrew willow is often valued by florists.

Sorry I couldn't identify your wood George.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

George Valentine

You don't have to apologise for anything, I understand that sometimes is a nearly impossible job to identify some woods particularly when some vital samples are non existent...!

I appreciate the time that you experts in this area, have already put into assisting me with some trees identification, and I'n far from done as I have a few more that I have been trying to put a name to so, I'm counting on you guys to give me a hand with these identifications, to which I will be immensely grateful...!

PS: Never heard of Corkscrew Willow either...!

Cheers
George

Brent Ferris

Corkscrew willow is an extremely brittle tree, worse than regular willow - a challenge to climb and trim.,

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

George Valentine

Hi everyone,

Sorry that I didn't post my weekend results on Monday but, I've been entertained with some other recent issue...!

So, the verdict is in fact the, "Corkscrew/Tortuosa Willow"...!

Who would thing, huh...???

When you thing that you know a little bit of this stuff, there comes these surprises...!

I'm yet to see a pic from one of these trees with all that burled stuff at the low trunk area but doesn't matter, I have one more local timber species identified, thank you all very much...!

What's next...? humm, I have a few to go...!

Cheers
George