Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide

Therrin · 25th April 2008, 08:54 PM

Quote by Ekka,

Quote:

At the end of the day the only true method of proving this for any saw would be a bench dyno test straight onto the crankshaft output.

Racing with timed cuts is BS frankly when it comes to measuring engine performance gains. People who do that must like to "crack a woody" or something coz they aint cracking facts.

Quote:

Thanks mate, when I fit it I'll send another back to you.

Will do some timed cuts.

So uh.... whats up with the proposed timed tests then, you waiting to "crack a woody" Ekka?

TrevMcRev · 26th April 2008, 05:58 AM

I dont think you'll have to ask

ScottWojo · 26th April 2008, 07:33 AM

Shush.

His first muffler is free...then when he wants more, he he he...worse than crack. Every tree guy that has bought one in the States has come back to get the rest of their saws done.

Scott.

Ekka · 26th April 2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Quote by Ekka,

So uh.... whats up with the proposed timed tests then, you waiting to "crack a woody" Ekka?

I dont see you offering bench dyno testing either. It's all I can do, but thanks for coming up with something constructive.

Therrin · 26th April 2008, 07:54 PM

haha, touche`

I'll be interested to see how the tests come out.

Ekka · 26th April 2008, 07:58 PM

Hahaha, if you have got other ways though let us know.

At least you took it well, could've "knobbed" out.

You see, a 20% increase in HP might only give a 5% increase in cutting times and so on.

But if you know of another way to tests it'd be great, all car dyno's around here though.

Therrin · 26th April 2008, 08:00 PM

Oh don't get me wrong now... yer still a knob

I'll just have to think about it.

What's it take to convert a car dyno to chainsaw ? Or can't it be done?

newguy18 · 26th April 2008, 09:25 PM

Can't be done,ones designed for low rpms[cars]and saws are for high rpms.I'd be worried if your car did 13,000 rpm or if your saw did between 1 and 7,000 rpm.

TrevMcRev · 27th April 2008, 05:18 AM

Ekka someone that race tunes 2 stroke motorX bikes might know a way...

Or not.....

ScottWojo · 27th April 2008, 09:28 AM

There are plans for me to send a few of the covers to Madsen's for Dyno tests. I just am busy as all get out and no money to waste on something to prove what I already know. I will have to do it though and post the results here and on my future website.

Sending the cover to Eric was strictly a marketing move. Once he gets it on and everyone sees him using it, more will be needed in Australia. Plus, this product will also help with bringing more attention to Eric's online activities and make more money for him and his sponsors.

All this work with stainless steel and welding and the price of gasoline going wacko has led me into experimentation with Hydrogen generators. I have made two successful generators and gave them away to be used on vehicles. I will begin working on one that will produce several liters of Hydrogen Oxygen gas per minute.

Tree Machine · 29th April 2008, 07:52 PM

Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction.

Hydrogen is very chemically reactive, even with metals, explosively with oxygen. Any metal that the hydrogen touches prior to ignition needs to be protected, like ceramic coated or something. Exposed metals die an early death in in the presence of elemental hydrogen, and heat catalyzes this unwanted side effect (pitting).

...but getting back on track
An advantage of porting a saw is in the increased low and mid-range grunt, giving more power and control to the cutting you do. Your 'speed' comes in understanding the new strengths, where they are and capitalizing on them.

A flat-out, timed speed test won't show benefit but maybe in the fractions of a second, but that's not where the true advantages lie. Your bread and butter benefits come from being able to do the same cutting as before, now with less pressure on the throttle, or same cutting with lower RPM's. THEN when you need to get down and give it all it's got, you will not be disappointed, but most of your work throughout the day is not done at the screaming high end.

ScottWojo · 29th April 2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction.

Well this is completely fascinating to me. In a few short weeks exposure I have come across several local inventors who all tell me that they have been working on the projects for over 5 years. One guy told me that the electrolysis method of extracting hydrogen will never amount to anything. But he said that there are other ways to separate hydrogen from water. And he also told me that there is no good way to prevent the gas from flashing. He said that he made one of his generators to explode safely.

One thing I see that shows promise is an alloy with aluminum and gallium. reacts with water without using any other energy. One guy is working on something but did not have it sold yet so he would not tell me much about it. I hope it works.

Its common knowledge to me through experience, better chains, better bars and better exhausts will all give you low cost advantages in production time.

Tree Machine · 1st May 2008, 05:34 AM

The thermodynamics most people don't understand. As with most chemical reactions in nature, they can go two directions. A couple hydrogen molecules (H2) plus an oxygen (02) looks like this 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H2O

Just a little bit of activation energy sets these reactive and unstable molecules in motion and it goes from hydrogen and oxygen into a stable compund we know as water. Very strong, one-way reaction that gives off a lot of energy (exothermic) on it's way to being water.

The problem is that it takes that same amount of energy, plus a little extra, in reverse to break water back down into it's component hydrogen and oxygen (endothermic). The laws of thermodynamics are universal laws of physics. Science is trying to bend the laws. Still. Running machinery on water has been conceived since the beginning of machinery and to the public it appears it is currently happening, but things aren't always as they appear. You can't put more energy into a process than you ultimately generate. Otherwise you're in the negative and it is simply not sustainable.

I think it would be worth a Nobel prize to the person who defies physics and makes this truly profitable. I think metal catalysts hold hope, but it will still require an energy input to drive the backwards reaction. Right now, in autos, it is run from a 12V input, but the reaction is incredibly slow with that low an energy input. Create the catalyst alloy, you get to name it Wojonium.

Do you have 3/8, 14" titanium carving bars, Wojo?

shaggs · 1st May 2008, 03:49 PM

Will be good to see some results of testing Eric, if they can be done.

I also think like TM said, that there is a good improvement in torque low end. This may be harder to prove on a chainsaw, but the vast benefit will be a saw which wont "grab" as early (from reduced chain speed).

Will be great for those darn palms!!!

Ekka · 8th May 2008, 04:00 PM

Scott

The muffler arrived.

What do I do about this hole already there?

26th April 2008, 05:58 AM	#27 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 672	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide I dont think you'll have to ask __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

26th April 2008, 07:33 AM	#28 (permalink)
ScottWojo Custom Chainsaw Muffler Modifications Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 57	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Shush. His first muffler is free...then when he wants more, he he he...worse than crack. Every tree guy that has bought one in the States has come back to get the rest of their saws done. Scott. __________________ ScottWojo HP Modified Chainsaw Mufflers\| GB Bar and Chain Distributor.

26th April 2008, 07:54 PM	#30 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,113	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide haha, touche` I'll be interested to see how the tests come out. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

26th April 2008, 07:58 PM	#31 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Hahaha, if you have got other ways though let us know. At least you took it well, could've "knobbed" out. You see, a 20% increase in HP might only give a 5% increase in cutting times and so on. But if you know of another way to tests it'd be great, all car dyno's around here though. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

26th April 2008, 08:00 PM	#32 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,113	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Oh don't get me wrong now... yer still a knob I'll just have to think about it. What's it take to convert a car dyno to chainsaw ? Or can't it be done? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

26th April 2008, 09:25 PM	#33 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,200	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Can't be done,ones designed for low rpms[cars]and saws are for high rpms.I'd be worried if your car did 13,000 rpm or if your saw did between 1 and 7,000 rpm. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

27th April 2008, 05:18 AM	#34 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 672	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Ekka someone that race tunes 2 stroke motorX bikes might know a way... Or not..... __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

27th April 2008, 09:28 AM	#35 (permalink)
ScottWojo Custom Chainsaw Muffler Modifications Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 57	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide There are plans for me to send a few of the covers to Madsen's for Dyno tests. I just am busy as all get out and no money to waste on something to prove what I already know. I will have to do it though and post the results here and on my future website. Sending the cover to Eric was strictly a marketing move. Once he gets it on and everyone sees him using it, more will be needed in Australia. Plus, this product will also help with bringing more attention to Eric's online activities and make more money for him and his sponsors. All this work with stainless steel and welding and the price of gasoline going wacko has led me into experimentation with Hydrogen generators. I have made two successful generators and gave them away to be used on vehicles. I will begin working on one that will produce several liters of Hydrogen Oxygen gas per minute. __________________ ScottWojo HP Modified Chainsaw Mufflers\| GB Bar and Chain Distributor.

29th April 2008, 07:52 PM	#36 (permalink)
Tree Machine Astronaut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 567	Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction. Hydrogen is very chemically reactive, even with metals, explosively with oxygen. Any metal that the hydrogen touches prior to ignition needs to be protected, like ceramic coated or something. Exposed metals die an early death in in the presence of elemental hydrogen, and heat catalyzes this unwanted side effect (pitting). ...but getting back on track An advantage of porting a saw is in the increased low and mid-range grunt, giving more power and control to the cutting you do. Your 'speed' comes in understanding the new strengths, where they are and capitalizing on them. A flat-out, timed speed test won't show benefit but maybe in the fractions of a second, but that's not where the true advantages lie. Your bread and butter benefits come from being able to do the same cutting as before, now with less pressure on the throttle, or same cutting with lower RPM's. THEN when you need to get down and give it all it's got, you will not be disappointed, but most of your work throughout the day is not done at the screaming high end.

1st May 2008, 05:34 AM	#38 (permalink)
Tree Machine Astronaut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 567	The thermodynamics most people don't understand. As with most chemical reactions in nature, they can go two directions. A couple hydrogen molecules (H2) plus an oxygen (02) looks like this 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H2O Just a little bit of activation energy sets these reactive and unstable molecules in motion and it goes from hydrogen and oxygen into a stable compund we know as water. Very strong, one-way reaction that gives off a lot of energy (exothermic) on it's way to being water. The problem is that it takes that same amount of energy, plus a little extra, in reverse to break water back down into it's component hydrogen and oxygen (endothermic). The laws of thermodynamics are universal laws of physics. Science is trying to bend the laws. Still. Running machinery on water has been conceived since the beginning of machinery and to the public it appears it is currently happening, but things aren't always as they appear. You can't put more energy into a process than you ultimately generate. Otherwise you're in the negative and it is simply not sustainable. I think it would be worth a Nobel prize to the person who defies physics and makes this truly profitable. I think metal catalysts hold hope, but it will still require an energy input to drive the backwards reaction. Right now, in autos, it is run from a 12V input, but the reaction is incredibly slow with that low an energy input. Create the catalyst alloy, you get to name it Wojonium. Do you have 3/8, 14" titanium carving bars, Wojo?

1st May 2008, 03:49 PM	#39 (permalink)
shaggs Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 459	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Will be good to see some results of testing Eric, if they can be done. I also think like TM said, that there is a good improvement in torque low end. This may be harder to prove on a chainsaw, but the vast benefit will be a saw which wont "grab" as early (from reduced chain speed). Will be great for those darn palms!!!