Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide

Eric Frei · 27th April 2008, 02:58 PM

Hahaha, if you have got other ways though let us know.

At least you took it well, could've "knobbed" out.

You see, a 20% increase in HP might only give a 5% increase in cutting times and so on.

But if you know of another way to tests it'd be great, all car dyno's around here though.

Therrin · 27th April 2008, 03:00 PM

Oh don't get me wrong now... yer still a knob

I'll just have to think about it.

What's it take to convert a car dyno to chainsaw ? Or can't it be done?

newguy18 · 27th April 2008, 04:25 PM

Can't be done,ones designed for low rpms[cars]and saws are for high rpms.I'd be worried if your car did 13,000 rpm or if your saw did between 1 and 7,000 rpm.

TrevMcRev · 28th April 2008, 12:18 AM

Ekka someone that race tunes 2 stroke motorX bikes might know a way...

Or not.....

ScottWojo · 28th April 2008, 04:28 AM

There are plans for me to send a few of the covers to Madsen's for Dyno tests. I just am busy as all get out and no money to waste on something to prove what I already know. I will have to do it though and post the results here and on my future website.

Sending the cover to Eric was strictly a marketing move. Once he gets it on and everyone sees him using it, more will be needed in Australia. Plus, this product will also help with bringing more attention to Eric's online activities and make more money for him and his sponsors.

All this work with stainless steel and welding and the price of gasoline going wacko has led me into experimentation with Hydrogen generators. I have made two successful generators and gave them away to be used on vehicles. I will begin working on one that will produce several liters of Hydrogen Oxygen gas per minute.

Tree Machine · 30th April 2008, 02:52 PM

Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction.

Hydrogen is very chemically reactive, even with metals, explosively with oxygen. Any metal that the hydrogen touches prior to ignition needs to be protected, like ceramic coated or something. Exposed metals die an early death in in the presence of elemental hydrogen, and heat catalyzes this unwanted side effect (pitting).

...but getting back on track
An advantage of porting a saw is in the increased low and mid-range grunt, giving more power and control to the cutting you do. Your 'speed' comes in understanding the new strengths, where they are and capitalizing on them.

A flat-out, timed speed test won't show benefit but maybe in the fractions of a second, but that's not where the true advantages lie. Your bread and butter benefits come from being able to do the same cutting as before, now with less pressure on the throttle, or same cutting with lower RPM's. THEN when you need to get down and give it all it's got, you will not be disappointed, but most of your work throughout the day is not done at the screaming high end.

ScottWojo · 30th April 2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction.

Well this is completely fascinating to me. In a few short weeks exposure I have come across several local inventors who all tell me that they have been working on the projects for over 5 years. One guy told me that the electrolysis method of extracting hydrogen will never amount to anything. But he said that there are other ways to separate hydrogen from water. And he also told me that there is no good way to prevent the gas from flashing. He said that he made one of his generators to explode safely.

One thing I see that shows promise is an alloy with aluminum and gallium. reacts with water without using any other energy. One guy is working on something but did not have it sold yet so he would not tell me much about it. I hope it works.

Its common knowledge to me through experience, better chains, better bars and better exhausts will all give you low cost advantages in production time.

Tree Machine · 2nd May 2008, 12:34 AM

The thermodynamics most people don't understand. As with most chemical reactions in nature, they can go two directions. A couple hydrogen molecules (H2) plus an oxygen (02) looks like this 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H2O

Just a little bit of activation energy sets these reactive and unstable molecules in motion and it goes from hydrogen and oxygen into a stable compund we know as water. Very strong, one-way reaction that gives off a lot of energy (exothermic) on it's way to being water.

The problem is that it takes that same amount of energy, plus a little extra, in reverse to break water back down into it's component hydrogen and oxygen (endothermic). The laws of thermodynamics are universal laws of physics. Science is trying to bend the laws. Still. Running machinery on water has been conceived since the beginning of machinery and to the public it appears it is currently happening, but things aren't always as they appear. You can't put more energy into a process than you ultimately generate. Otherwise you're in the negative and it is simply not sustainable.

I think it would be worth a Nobel prize to the person who defies physics and makes this truly profitable. I think metal catalysts hold hope, but it will still require an energy input to drive the backwards reaction. Right now, in autos, it is run from a 12V input, but the reaction is incredibly slow with that low an energy input. Create the catalyst alloy, you get to name it Wojonium.

Do you have 3/8, 14" titanium carving bars, Wojo?

shaggs · 2nd May 2008, 10:49 AM

Will be good to see some results of testing Eric, if they can be done.

I also think like TM said, that there is a good improvement in torque low end. This may be harder to prove on a chainsaw, but the vast benefit will be a saw which wont "grab" as early (from reduced chain speed).

Will be great for those darn palms!!!

Eric Frei · 9th May 2008, 11:00 AM

Scott

The muffler arrived.

What do I do about this hole already there?

ScottWojo · 9th May 2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Scott

The muffler arrived.

What do I do about this hole already there?

Leave it, that the one that makes it a dual port muffler. If there is a baffle inside the can remove it. Tune and cut.

Thanks,
Scott.

Eric Frei · 9th May 2008, 11:57 AM

But that's the hole where exhaust already comes out, will it not just come out of there also?

ScottWojo · 9th May 2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

But that's the hole where exhaust already comes out, will it not just come out of there also?

Eric,

Yes. It exits through both holes. Have you installed it yet and tuned it? This is a bolt and go part. You can either leave the baffle for a less of a gain or remove the baffle for full effect.

How did you feel about the part when you first had it out of the package? Was the design as you expected it?

Thanks.
Scott.

Eric Frei · 9th May 2008, 12:18 PM

Yeah, nicely made.

I didn't fit it yet though, just wanted to be sure first.

newguy18 · 9th May 2008, 02:20 PM

So Ekka,hows it work and did you crack any woodys yet.

STEVEGODSEYJR · 23rd May 2008, 02:28 PM

JUST WONDERING IF YOU TRIED OUT THE NEW MUFFLER YET? LOOKING FOR INPUT B4 I BUY ONE

ScottWojo · 23rd May 2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEVEGODSEYJR

JUST WONDERING IF YOU TRIED OUT THE NEW MUFFLER YET? LOOKING FOR INPUT B4 I BUY ONE

Steve,

Buy one. If you decide you don't like it for any reason return it for a full refund, including shipping. LoL, no one has ever taken me up on this deal. I have never had a dissatisfied customer. Try it and post your own review. Check out my eBay feedback...well over 500 satisfied transactions. Although those were not all mufflers.

Jeff Darby · 27th May 2008, 06:25 PM

Hi Scott,
Does the modification increase the decibel output?.

ScottWojo · 27th May 2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

Hi Scott,
Does the modification increase the decibel output?.

There is a nice pleasant deep throaty note. And yes it is louder.

stumpjumper · 9th June 2008, 10:01 AM

is there any modifications or power tuning that can be done to a 361?

ScottWojo · 9th June 2008, 10:08 AM

yes I can mod the 361. You would need to send your muffler or a replacement or...pay me to obtain a new one. They respond very nicely to something that I do to the 361.

Thanks,
Scott.

jokers · 10th June 2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

The thermodynamics most people don't understand. As with most chemical reactions in nature, they can go two directions. A couple hydrogen molecules (H2) plus an oxygen (02) looks like this 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H2O

Wouldn`t 2xH2 equal H4 and what happened to the the 2 following your oxygen molecule? Wouldn`t your balanced equation look like H4O2 ?..........but in reality it would just be two molecules of water with a combined ionic and covalent bond. The old dipolar moment of water thing. Just add an element with a stronger ionic affinity and the water splits and becomes a different compound or two, is this how you also understand it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

Just a little bit of activation energy sets these reactive and unstable molecules in motion and it goes from hydrogen and oxygen into a stable compund we know as water. Very strong, one-way reaction that gives off a lot of energy (exothermic) on it's way to being water.

hmmmm.......therein lies the problem. Normal combination of H+s and O-s isn`t that exothermic, make it H2SO4 and it is, isn`t this the general principle of the reactive metal or catalyst needed for a hydrogen generator?

jokers · 10th June 2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Machine

...but getting back on track
An advantage of porting a saw is in the increased low and mid-range grunt, giving more power and control to the cutting you do. Your 'speed' comes in understanding the new strengths, where they are and capitalizing on them.

A flat-out, timed speed test won't show benefit but maybe in the fractions of a second, but that's not where the true advantages lie. Your bread and butter benefits come from being able to do the same cutting as before, now with less pressure on the throttle, or same cutting with lower RPM's. THEN when you need to get down and give it all it's got, you will not be disappointed, but most of your work throughout the day is not done at the screaming high end.

Don`t take it personally Tree Machine, but I`m going to disagree with your perspective. A .025 thick chip is close enough to all other .025 chips to call them equals IMO, and the more chips you remove per unit time, the faster your work is done. Horsepower, which is as we all know, a rate at which a given amount of work is done, more Hp allows a person to perform more work per unit time. Modified saws aren`t about running at partial throttle because that would be less than the attainable chain speed and the chips are all still the same size, if you(figuratively) want to run at less speed in the cut than your full potential, save your money on mods and buy more files because dull chain is the biggest handicap to most saw operators.

PTC · 12th June 2008, 08:30 PM

Scott

can you do anything special with a 200t or a 338xp?

PTC · 12th June 2008, 08:38 PM

come on EKKA

you've had you muffler for over a month now! whats it like?

ScottWojo · 14th June 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTC

Scott

can you do anything special with a 200t or a 338xp?

Suppose I could. Never have as of yet.

Eric,

Put that sucker on and cut with it, you don't have to video tape it, just tell how you like it.

Eric Frei · 14th June 2008, 10:31 AM

Hell or high water I'll do it today!

newguy18 · 14th June 2008, 10:56 AM

and?

Eric Frei · 14th June 2008, 06:55 PM

And I did it, now have to edit it.

Some issues though, after fitting mod muffler had to reduce idle speed significantly as chain was running on, no big deal about 3/4 turn out on the idle screw.

However the H screw needed adjustment, needed to richen the air/fuel ratio (wind anti clockwise), but I couldn't wind out anymore as reached some limit. Was still good enough for the test but I like to run a little richer.

I would say it picked up around 2000rpm more in the flat out range and perhaps 1500 more at idle.

Responds well to triggering, certainly no dead spot or loss of hp at low rev ranges, you can lean on it more for sure.

Video soon, after dinner when I edit it. Have to edit out all those bikini girls ......

PTC · 14th June 2008, 09:32 PM

Ekka

Hows it sound? Much Louder?

27th April 2008, 02:58 PM	#31
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Hahaha, if you have got other ways though let us know. At least you took it well, could've "knobbed" out. You see, a 20% increase in HP might only give a 5% increase in cutting times and so on. But if you know of another way to tests it'd be great, all car dyno's around here though. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

27th April 2008, 03:00 PM	#32
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Oh don't get me wrong now... yer still a knob I'll just have to think about it. What's it take to convert a car dyno to chainsaw ? Or can't it be done?

27th April 2008, 04:25 PM	#33
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Can't be done,ones designed for low rpms[cars]and saws are for high rpms.I'd be worried if your car did 13,000 rpm or if your saw did between 1 and 7,000 rpm. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

28th April 2008, 12:18 AM	#34
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,605	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Ekka someone that race tunes 2 stroke motorX bikes might know a way... Or not.....

28th April 2008, 04:28 AM	#35
ScottWojo Custom Chainsaw Muffler Modifications Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 107	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide There are plans for me to send a few of the covers to Madsen's for Dyno tests. I just am busy as all get out and no money to waste on something to prove what I already know. I will have to do it though and post the results here and on my future website. Sending the cover to Eric was strictly a marketing move. Once he gets it on and everyone sees him using it, more will be needed in Australia. Plus, this product will also help with bringing more attention to Eric's online activities and make more money for him and his sponsors. All this work with stainless steel and welding and the price of gasoline going wacko has led me into experimentation with Hydrogen generators. I have made two successful generators and gave them away to be used on vehicles. I will begin working on one that will produce several liters of Hydrogen Oxygen gas per minute. __________________ ScottWojo HP Modified Chainsaw Mufflers\| GB Bar and Chain Distributor.

30th April 2008, 02:52 PM	#36
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 955	Good luck on that, Wojo. Pulse modulation is the latest thing because during the electrolysis, oxygen accumulates on the cathode and hydrogen on the anode plate. As this happens there becomes less surface area on the plates for electrolysis to occur and the reaction becomes rate limiting. By pulse modulating, the accumulated bubbles all get periodically released all at once, opening up the entire plate to the reaction. Hydrogen is very chemically reactive, even with metals, explosively with oxygen. Any metal that the hydrogen touches prior to ignition needs to be protected, like ceramic coated or something. Exposed metals die an early death in in the presence of elemental hydrogen, and heat catalyzes this unwanted side effect (pitting). ...but getting back on track An advantage of porting a saw is in the increased low and mid-range grunt, giving more power and control to the cutting you do. Your 'speed' comes in understanding the new strengths, where they are and capitalizing on them. A flat-out, timed speed test won't show benefit but maybe in the fractions of a second, but that's not where the true advantages lie. Your bread and butter benefits come from being able to do the same cutting as before, now with less pressure on the throttle, or same cutting with lower RPM's. THEN when you need to get down and give it all it's got, you will not be disappointed, but most of your work throughout the day is not done at the screaming high end.

2nd May 2008, 12:34 AM	#38
Tree Machine Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 955	The thermodynamics most people don't understand. As with most chemical reactions in nature, they can go two directions. A couple hydrogen molecules (H2) plus an oxygen (02) looks like this 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H2O Just a little bit of activation energy sets these reactive and unstable molecules in motion and it goes from hydrogen and oxygen into a stable compund we know as water. Very strong, one-way reaction that gives off a lot of energy (exothermic) on it's way to being water. The problem is that it takes that same amount of energy, plus a little extra, in reverse to break water back down into it's component hydrogen and oxygen (endothermic). The laws of thermodynamics are universal laws of physics. Science is trying to bend the laws. Still. Running machinery on water has been conceived since the beginning of machinery and to the public it appears it is currently happening, but things aren't always as they appear. You can't put more energy into a process than you ultimately generate. Otherwise you're in the negative and it is simply not sustainable. I think it would be worth a Nobel prize to the person who defies physics and makes this truly profitable. I think metal catalysts hold hope, but it will still require an energy input to drive the backwards reaction. Right now, in autos, it is run from a 12V input, but the reaction is incredibly slow with that low an energy input. Create the catalyst alloy, you get to name it Wojonium. Do you have 3/8, 14" titanium carving bars, Wojo?

2nd May 2008, 10:49 AM	#39
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 422	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Will be good to see some results of testing Eric, if they can be done. I also think like TM said, that there is a good improvement in torque low end. This may be harder to prove on a chainsaw, but the vast benefit will be a saw which wont "grab" as early (from reduced chain speed). Will be great for those darn palms!!!

9th May 2008, 11:00 AM	#40
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Scott The muffler arrived. What do I do about this hole already there? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

9th May 2008, 11:57 AM	#42
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide But that's the hole where exhaust already comes out, will it not just come out of there also? __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

9th May 2008, 12:18 PM	#44
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Yeah, nicely made. I didn't fit it yet though, just wanted to be sure first. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

9th May 2008, 02:20 PM	#45
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide So Ekka,hows it work and did you crack any woodys yet. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

23rd May 2008, 02:28 PM	#46
STEVEGODSEYJR Sappling Join Date: May 2008 Location: INDIANA Posts: 21	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide JUST WONDERING IF YOU TRIED OUT THE NEW MUFFLER YET? LOOKING FOR INPUT B4 I BUY ONE

27th May 2008, 06:25 PM	#48
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,031	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Hi Scott, Does the modification increase the decibel output?. __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

9th June 2008, 10:01 AM	#50
stumpjumper I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: new mexico Posts: 4	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide is there any modifications or power tuning that can be done to a 361?

9th June 2008, 10:08 AM	#51
ScottWojo Custom Chainsaw Muffler Modifications Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 107	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide yes I can mod the 361. You would need to send your muffler or a replacement or...pay me to obtain a new one. They respond very nicely to something that I do to the 361. Thanks, Scott. __________________ ScottWojo HP Modified Chainsaw Mufflers\| GB Bar and Chain Distributor.

12th June 2008, 08:30 PM	#54
PTC Sappling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 42	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Scott can you do anything special with a 200t or a 338xp?

12th June 2008, 08:38 PM	#55
PTC Sappling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 42	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide come on EKKA you've had you muffler for over a month now! whats it like?

14th June 2008, 10:31 AM	#57
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Hell or high water I'll do it today! __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

14th June 2008, 10:56 AM	#58
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide and? __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

14th June 2008, 06:55 PM	#59
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide And I did it, now have to edit it. Some issues though, after fitting mod muffler had to reduce idle speed significantly as chain was running on, no big deal about 3/4 turn out on the idle screw. However the H screw needed adjustment, needed to richen the air/fuel ratio (wind anti clockwise), but I couldn't wind out anymore as reached some limit. Was still good enough for the test but I like to run a little richer. I would say it picked up around 2000rpm more in the flat out range and perhaps 1500 more at idle. Responds well to triggering, certainly no dead spot or loss of hp at low rev ranges, you can lean on it more for sure. Video soon, after dinner when I edit it. Have to edit out all those bikini girls ...... __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

14th June 2008, 09:32 PM	#60
PTC Sappling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 42	Re: Chainsaw Muffler Modifications - Internet Sales World Wide Ekka Hows it sound? Much Louder?

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