Build Parks to Cool Our Cities

lenphillips · 1st January 2008, 04:31 PM

Online Seminars has an article called Build Parks to Cool Our Cities. It will be available for discussion at the website for January and February.
on-line-seminars.com - Build Parks

If every one of us could plant enough trees to increase our tree population and open space by 10% we could reverse the trend of global warming. Is the answer really this simple?

Ekka · 1st January 2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenphillips

If every one of us could plant enough trees to increase our tree population and open space by 10% we could reverse the trend of global warming. Is the answer really this simple?

No, of course not as the release of co2 is largely determined by government policy and corporations. Simple, if there's no law to what the proportion of co2 pollution you put out is for your product then why bother re-engineering?

Also is the trees going to be where the problem is taking place? For example, China, India and perhaps Pakistan are developing quickly and in doing so adding enormous amounts of co2. But is planting trees in New Zealand going to help that as much as planting them where the polluter is?

Also the concept of increased rainfall is simply not valid for Australia, we will get drier and droughts more common.

I believe that there will be huge findings and money to be made in filtration systems ... like when the new refrigerants took over from the old, technology will happen ... problem is not being forced to except on a voluntary basis means it's left to universities not the cash cows who are making the mess.

If the idea of turfing out your coal electricity generator doesn't turn you on then adding a filter to it would. I think vehicles will have something too.

azrael · 2nd January 2008, 04:55 PM

Carbon sequestration research and trials in Australia ......using Agricar as a soil ameliorant.
Soils offer new hope as carbon sink | NSW Department of Primary Industries
Catalyst: Agrichar – A solution to global warming? - ABC TV Science

From my understanding the process is not dissimilar to the medieval charcoal ovens....where wood was I piled up, then mud igloo type structure formed over it, then ignited inside and low O2 combusted...extinguished and dismantled when at charcoal stage....these days is called called pyrolysis...and is more high tech and exacting.....and scaled-up.
Going Carbon Negative

Im pretty familiar with purification too...I've a Laboratory background...and heavily involved in monitoring the Reverse Osmosis water purification system from non-potable water (for Lab. use). Processed.....then held in tanks till required.
As long as membrane filter (series of sizes down to 0.22um) are changed regularly and regular back wash cycles are run for the sand filters and ionic exchange filters, this water is THE ABSOLUTE purest you can get.
In the s'market (Aust) there only one that is RO water...Nobles Pure Eau...and the only one I would buy....for batteries, irons etc and good drinking too.
I would 100% drink anything that gone thru RO...even sewerage.....mind you...it would be too expensive to process at RO for just irrigation purposes...or toilet flushing.

mdvaden · 3rd January 2008, 09:15 AM

It would be interesting to know - if a available - what the Manchester based research might not have included like:

How much of an effect on the environment does the equipment have that prunes those trees, removes their leaves, etc..

How much if any, effect would increased pesticides have on the environment.

Basically, most of the peripheral tools, workers and products to maintain those trees were not covered.

I have a feeling it's not going to be all that major.

Basically, it seems to be a very simple thing - trees make an area feel cool. It does not take research to know that a fresh banana peel on stair steps is hazardous. It's a simple obvious thing.

Likewise with trees and shade. Almost anybody knows tree shade is cool, and almost anybody knows that clusters of city buildings can be warm.

Seems that it's mainly a matter of people trying to decide if they can neutralize global warming. I think they can only neutralize the warming it the cities. Even the research connotes hypothesis. I say just plant the trees to make your city cooler if you can enjoy them without causing problems.

And if it worked, then you may or may not know.

One thing I see weekly, is that weather and climate forecasters still can't accurately predict 4 weeks ahead. They don't know if a tropical storm will be a hurricane, etc..

And based off past history knowing that climate has changed radically without warning in 3 year cycles, 10 year cycles, etc., I wonder why someone would try to predict 2080 weather.

TreeCo · 3rd January 2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenphillips

Online Seminars has an article called Build Parks to Cool Our Cities. It will be available for discussion at the website for January and February.
on-line-seminars.com - Build Parks

If every one of us could plant enough trees to increase our tree population and open space by 10% we could reverse the trend of global warming. Is the answer really this simple?

The answer is not as simple as building parks and it's sad to see CEU's given supporting such an idea. This is not education......it is propaganda! Almost without exception parks are controlled by government organizations...... and these government organizations are as big a threat to our well being as is global warming!

mdvaden · 3rd January 2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeCo

The answer is not as simple as building parks and it's sad to see CEU's given supporting such an idea. This is not education......it is propaganda! Almost without exception parks are controlled by government organizations...... and these government organizations are as big a threat to our well being as is global warming!

But don't forget that government is funded by people like us. So since we spoon-feed the nourishment it needs, it may fall back our shoulders in the end.

As far as the article goes, it has some facts that may be indisputable, which can be useful.

Some arborists may not be aware of a factual 6 degree or 22 degree difference between one existing situation and another.

If a thermometer works, and the temps were recorded accurately, why can't that information be used for several forms of education and decision making?

TreeCo · 3rd January 2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdvaden

But don't forget that government is funded by people like us.

LOL.

You can bet your bottom dollar they are.

......as I'm sitting here doing books for 2007.

Ekka · 3rd January 2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeCo

Almost without exception parks are controlled by government organizations...... and these government organizations are as big a threat to our well being as is global warming!

I agree 100%.

The government actually controls or can control pretty much everything anyway including the trees on your private land. How many places have protection orders on trees? Many.

The problem also arises where no-one cares or does much about China's expansion and boom ... in fact western manufacturing is embracing the idea whilst putting the boot into other countries for say cutting down forests like the Amazon. Maybe if the boot went into where the polluters are (and their share holders) they'd lay off the forestry people.

bigshea13 · 3rd January 2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I agree 100%.

The government actually controls or can control pretty much everything anyway including the trees on your private land. How many places have protection orders on trees? Many.

The problem also arises where no-one cares or does much about China's expansion and boom ... in fact western manufacturing is embracing the idea whilst putting the boot into other countries for say cutting down forests like the Amazon. Maybe if the boot went into where the polluters are (and their share holders) they'd lay off the forestry people.

so many chinamen...so few boots

Ekka · 3rd January 2008, 12:19 PM

India will be a bigger problem I assure you, China practices birth control!

azrael · 3rd January 2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

If every one of us could plant enough trees to increase our tree population and open space by 10% we could reverse the trend of global warming. Is the answer really this simple?

Tree planting provides a Carbon sink...where C is held temporarily in plant tissue....sometimes its for a long period...but sometimes not...

Tree-planting is NOT a permanent solution to back-tracking the huge amounts of generated CO2 by the activities man (mainly in the last 250 years). Humans have managed to convert previously sequestered forms of C (like coal and oil) to CO2 ..... almost to the level of exhaustion of these reserves.
In addition, there has been activity which has released the temporary stores of C ...from trees, vegetation .... all involving aerobic combustion of carbon ( burning). Natural events like bushfires also allow huge release of temporary C stores.

I would agree trees have huge aesthetic benefit, and micro-climatic cooling effect ... but the worlds problem is too big NOW for tree planting to be any sort of answer. At best, it is only a temporary appeasment.

Part of the solution lies in removing Carbon from the Carbon cycle and returning to the earth ....sequestered. Hence the post on Agrichar.....( as food for a new way of thinking).

Man has changed this planet to such a degree that natural systems are permanently altered.....vegetation successions are occurring....species are moving out of their normal ecological niches and taking up occupation in altered environments ... (Pittosporum undulatum as one example) .... and species are being totally lost from our planet....not only plants but the habitat that it provides for animals too.

That's the way it is ... and as portended in "The Future Eaters" by Tim Flannery back in 1994.

This year, 2008 is International Year of Planet Earth.....

mdvaden · 3rd January 2008, 02:46 PM

While at a hearing at the Oregon State capitol to start, one State Representative asked me a question that was not really related to the issue, while I was in "the chair". Sort of, but more of a chance for free consulting while he had an arborist in the hearing room.

He was irritated about how so so many trees in cities die, break, etc., and the short life spans. And was curious about the "why" and the "solutions".

I mentioned to him, that a lot of the problem would have to eliminated at the cause.

One thing I shared, was just as our studded snow tires must come off the roads in April to avoid damaging streets, likewise, heavy machinery would have to come off the soil in construction sites in October to avoid the soil compaction doing so much damage. (due to our rainy season lubricating soil).

Another thing, was that too many unskilled landscape maintenance people butcher trees, and destroy their potential before arborists get their hands on them. In our area, you don't need a license to prune under 15', so many maintenance companies are topping and shearing small trees to keep them small enough to preserve job security. Not, all, but enough.

So if the causes of damage were removed, we probably would not need to plant any more trees except essential ones and a few extra.

The compaction on our soils, sends double the water to the streets, and practically doubles the municipal needs and expense for city drainage.

So in all this global warming frenzy pertaining to tree canopy ideas, I rarely see them discussing how the protection of soil is a priority.

azrael · 3rd January 2008, 03:34 PM

I'm with you 100%....starting from the "ground up" ... so to speak.
Again, there is a HUGE amount of info on the potential for soil improvement in links from the section "Information Sources on biochar" in this link (as per earlier post).
Going Carbon Negative

Is it the BLACK GOLD of the future???.

bigshea13 · 3rd January 2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

India will be a bigger problem I assure you, China practices birth control!

yeah if its a boy it lives...if its a girl they kill it.

newguy18 · 3rd January 2008, 04:59 PM

I agree the answer isn't that simple.i know here in the us they are trying to pass a law to where your vehicle no matter what year it is has to pass todays standards and vehicles like my truck can only be driven to and from car shows.What a crock!That as bad as people telling me that the loggers are 100 percent responsible for global warming.Its much bigger than logging its years and years of air pollution from vehicles and engines as well as coal burning and spilling fuel and oil.

1st January 2008, 04:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
lenphillips Gettin' motoring Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 43	Build Parks to Cool Our Cities Online Seminars has an article called Build Parks to Cool Our Cities. It will be available for discussion at the website for January and February. on-line-seminars.com - Build Parks If every one of us could plant enough trees to increase our tree population and open space by 10% we could reverse the trend of global warming. Is the answer really this simple? __________________ Len Phillips Administrator Online Seminars for Municipal Arborists

2nd January 2008, 04:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
azrael Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 340	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities Carbon sequestration research and trials in Australia ......using Agricar as a soil ameliorant. Soils offer new hope as carbon sink \| NSW Department of Primary Industries Catalyst: Agrichar – A solution to global warming? - ABC TV Science From my understanding the process is not dissimilar to the medieval charcoal ovens....where wood was I piled up, then mud igloo type structure formed over it, then ignited inside and low O2 combusted...extinguished and dismantled when at charcoal stage....these days is called called pyrolysis...and is more high tech and exacting.....and scaled-up. Going Carbon Negative Im pretty familiar with purification too...I've a Laboratory background...and heavily involved in monitoring the Reverse Osmosis water purification system from non-potable water (for Lab. use). Processed.....then held in tanks till required. As long as membrane filter (series of sizes down to 0.22um) are changed regularly and regular back wash cycles are run for the sand filters and ionic exchange filters, this water is THE ABSOLUTE purest you can get. In the s'market (Aust) there only one that is RO water...Nobles Pure Eau...and the only one I would buy....for batteries, irons etc and good drinking too. I would 100% drink anything that gone thru RO...even sewerage.....mind you...it would be too expensive to process at RO for just irrigation purposes...or toilet flushing.

3rd January 2008, 09:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
mdvaden Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 578	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities It would be interesting to know - if a available - what the Manchester based research might not have included like: How much of an effect on the environment does the equipment have that prunes those trees, removes their leaves, etc.. How much if any, effect would increased pesticides have on the environment. Basically, most of the peripheral tools, workers and products to maintain those trees were not covered. I have a feeling it's not going to be all that major. Basically, it seems to be a very simple thing - trees make an area feel cool. It does not take research to know that a fresh banana peel on stair steps is hazardous. It's a simple obvious thing. Likewise with trees and shade. Almost anybody knows tree shade is cool, and almost anybody knows that clusters of city buildings can be warm. Seems that it's mainly a matter of people trying to decide if they can neutralize global warming. I think they can only neutralize the warming it the cities. Even the research connotes hypothesis. I say just plant the trees to make your city cooler if you can enjoy them without causing problems. And if it worked, then you may or may not know. One thing I see weekly, is that weather and climate forecasters still can't accurately predict 4 weeks ahead. They don't know if a tropical storm will be a hurricane, etc.. And based off past history knowing that climate has changed radically without warning in 3 year cycles, 10 year cycles, etc., I wonder why someone would try to predict 2080 weather. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

3rd January 2008, 12:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,673	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities India will be a bigger problem I assure you, China practices birth control! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd January 2008, 02:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
mdvaden Astronaut Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 578	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities While at a hearing at the Oregon State capitol to start, one State Representative asked me a question that was not really related to the issue, while I was in "the chair". Sort of, but more of a chance for free consulting while he had an arborist in the hearing room. He was irritated about how so so many trees in cities die, break, etc., and the short life spans. And was curious about the "why" and the "solutions". I mentioned to him, that a lot of the problem would have to eliminated at the cause. One thing I shared, was just as our studded snow tires must come off the roads in April to avoid damaging streets, likewise, heavy machinery would have to come off the soil in construction sites in October to avoid the soil compaction doing so much damage. (due to our rainy season lubricating soil). Another thing, was that too many unskilled landscape maintenance people butcher trees, and destroy their potential before arborists get their hands on them. In our area, you don't need a license to prune under 15', so many maintenance companies are topping and shearing small trees to keep them small enough to preserve job security. Not, all, but enough. So if the causes of damage were removed, we probably would not need to plant any more trees except essential ones and a few extra. The compaction on our soils, sends double the water to the streets, and practically doubles the municipal needs and expense for city drainage. So in all this global warming frenzy pertaining to tree canopy ideas, I rarely see them discussing how the protection of soil is a priority. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

3rd January 2008, 03:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
azrael Afterburner is shakin' Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 340	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities I'm with you 100%....starting from the "ground up" ... so to speak. Again, there is a HUGE amount of info on the potential for soil improvement in links from the section "Information Sources on biochar" in this link (as per earlier post). Going Carbon Negative Is it the BLACK GOLD of the future???. Last edited by azrael : 3rd January 2008 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Comment

3rd January 2008, 04:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
newguy18 Tree World Icon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,196	Re: Build Parks to Cool Our Cities I agree the answer isn't that simple.i know here in the us they are trying to pass a law to where your vehicle no matter what year it is has to pass todays standards and vehicles like my truck can only be driven to and from car shows.What a crock!That as bad as people telling me that the loggers are 100 percent responsible for global warming.Its much bigger than logging its years and years of air pollution from vehicles and engines as well as coal burning and spilling fuel and oil. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

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