What kind of fuel & mix oil do you use?

TrevMcRev

Stihl Australia agree with that here too.

And BP do NOT recommend their 98 Ultimate for small engine 2 stroke mixes.

Your 32:1 probably saved your azz eric.

The increased octane gives more power by producing a hotter burn. All well & good in a modern motorcar but the enemy of a little air cooled 2 stroke engine revving its tits off.

Therrin

Then how is it that the book says the saw "runs cooler" with 92 octane than it does with 87 octane?

Cut4fun

Even Madsen's Stihl Dolmar all say to run at least 91-93 octane in your stocks saws.
My local Dolmar dealer has a sign hanging up, please run a min of 89 in our saws, otherwise 87 created unneeded heat.

I'm with you 93 and have ran as high as 114 without problems .

Good read here below on subject and pretty much what I found out trying to run super high octane gases in the past.

http://www.madsens1.com/saw%20fuelmix.htm

porsche965

The owners manual on my 440 and 361 states mid grade 89 octane. If not available not to go lower but to go up to premium.

I use 89 Marine fuel with no ethanol. Stihl ultra and 1/2 ounce of Klotz Super Techniplate, never a problem and burns clean! Insides look like the day they were bought.

__________________
Sawzilla 460,Sawzilla 441C-M,441C-M,440,362,361,Snellerized 261,261. Dolmar 5105,401. Husqvarna 44, Colt .45 Gold Cups.

Therrin

Wow thanks cut4fun, I just copied the article from that link to my computer so I can browse through it and read it over a bit. It looks to have alot of info in it.

**EDIT**

Ahh, so ... using more mix oil in your ratio actually decreases the octane of your outcome mix. (which makes sense) So if you're running more oil in your ratio than 50:1, likewise increasing your octane a little allows the octane in the final mix to still run within the range of what it's supposed to be. Cool.

"While on the subject of mix oil, it is important to know that some of today's fuel doesn't stay blended once it is mixed with oil. As mixed fuel ages (and gets exposure to moisture) it may separate. When this occurs, even shaking the container does not reblend it. The result is a portion of fuel inside a saw's tank with no oil in it. "

windthrown

Old stuff here, but I use Washington state supreme gas (less ethanol than Oregon gas, 4% up there vs. 10% here). I add red formula Sta-Bil as soon as I pump the gas into a 3 or 5 gallon steel can, and I use that as a source to blend 2-stroke gas in one gallon cans. Sta-Bil will keep gas fresh for a year or more, and it will keep the ethanol in there from phase separating if it absorbs water. You have to add Sta-Bil when the gas is fresh and has high octane in order to keep the octane high. Gas starts to lose octane the minute it is blended at the refinery, and it continues to lose octane as gas ages.

I use Elf 100% synthetic oil at a rate of 45:1. A tad more oil for better ring seals. I retune my saws on that gas blend with a digital tach. I used to use Mobil1 2T 100% synthetic, but they stopped selling that in the US a few years ago. Elf is available at most mortorcycle shops, and it is good stuff. It is rated JASO FC/FD, meaning it is tested as having low smoke and high quality lubrication. Elf oil also has a blue dye in it, so you know if you have blended your gas or not. Mobil1 was clear, and that was found to be a problem by some people not being able to tell if the gas had oil in it or not.

In the end, I have yet to score a saw engine from ruinning bad gas or oil. I much prefer running low smoke oil, and the saws run a tad faster using it and the mufflers do not clog up nearly as much as when running old fashion or JASO FB oil. I do not use high octane AV gas because it has a lot of lead in it. Oregon used to have 100% gasoline until last year, when they flipped to mandatory E-10 gas. Pure gasoline runs better, and I go to Washington to get better gas for my saws.

TrevMcRev

Here regular fuel is 91, premium is 95 and then there are 98 & 100 fuels too.

windthrown

Octane ratings differ in countries depending on the method used in testing, and when/where the testing is done. In the US, octane is listed as AKI. AKI is an average of research octane (octane of fresh gas tested at the refinery) called RON and motor octane (octane when the gas is pumped from a gas station and run through a carb) called MON. In many other places octane is said to be higher, but it is the same gas sold with RON numbers. From what I read online, RON is typically used in NZ and Oz. However, in Oz and in Europe some premium (ultimate, or optimax) gas is available that is indeed higher octane than premium gas available in the states. More reading:

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/articl.../page_one.html

Cut4fun

and that right there is part of my reason of running Klotz 100% or even the 80%/20% blend that mixes with Alcohol, Tech told me it stays blended or mixed . As long as you dont have separation of water .

stihlman441

I use 91 oct fuel,Stabil and Mobil1 2T fully synthetic (its red colored) at 40:1.

Cut4fun

So windy going by that info posted above in link, their 98 Oz is like our 93 USA? Then our 87 is their 91 rating?

windthrown

Octane ratings depend on where in the manufacturing and delivery cycle that the testing is done. Gas in NZ and Oz is typically sold with RON, and not AKI like in the US. The same RON 95 gas may be tested later as MON 85, and thus have an AKI average of 90. Octane (antiknock) deteriorates after the gas is initially blended and tested for RON. Then the gas is stored, piped or trucked, stored again at transfer points and trucked again, delivered to gas stations and stored there, and finally pumped into your vehicle and stored again in your tank. MON is taken at the point at which gas finally reaches the carberator or fuel injectors.

In the end, it is impossible to tell what the exact octane will be when it reaches your gas tank. For that reason, in the US they use an average of RON and MON, called the AKI, which is the most likely actual octane that you will have in your gas tank. If the gas is freshly refined and you are nearer the refinery, the actual octane will likely be higher and nearer the RON. If the gas is older or has been stored longer, the octane is apt to be lower and nearer the MON number. Also adding to the confusion is that they have higher octane gas available overseas that is not available in the US (at least for cars). They sell super high octane 99 RON gas in the UK. That would be sold as 94 AKI octane in the US. Generally the highest AKI gas sold here in the states for cars is 91. US 91 AKI gas is typically 95 RON.

windthrown

Again: This is why you want to use Sta-Bil, or some other gas stabilizer. It will help to keep the various elements in the gas blend in suspension. Gas is a blend of many hydrocarbons, alchohols, and additives. Some are lighter, some are heavier. Adding a good stabilizer will also keep the lighter elements of gas from evaporating (keeping the octane high), and keep the heavier elements of gas from setteling out (gunking ou tanks and carbs). It will also keep the oil in suspension with the gas. It will also prevent phase separation, which is what happens when ethanol in modern gas absorbs water. Once ethanol absorbs water, it likes the water more than the gas and oil, so the water and ethanol separate out of the gas. Once that happens the corrosion factor of phase separated gas+oil/ethanol+water increases dramatically, and it is very common in marine engines. For that reason Sta-Bil came out with their green formula for adding to E-10 marine engine gas. They use tons of that stuff here now in Oregon. The damage to marine engines has increased ten fold since E-10 was mandated in this state.

Read: use gas stabilizer, and as soon as you pump the gas. This will result in avoiding all kinds of gas, mix, and water related problems. I keep stabilized premix blended gas fresh for a year or more, no problem. E-10, 4% ethanol, pure gas, I use it in all of them. That stuff is liquid gold. No gunked up carbs in chainsaws, no phase separation (even when exposed to water), no octane drop, stays mixed, even when it sits for months at a time in the saw tanks or in the cans.

Bruce Hopf

I think it was last fall, or later than the fall, windthrown, you had an ecellent post about a lot of stuff, and a fair bit more posted some where, that I followed what you had suggested, about using a synthetic oil, with 91% octaine in the gas, and my chain swas ran, a lot better, and smoked way less, than of before.
Could you find that link, and post it here, or tell me what you called the post, so I can go back and look it up. Thanks again, for all of your help. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

windthrown

That is this one:

The dreaded chainsaws oil thread

Bruce Hopf

AHH Yes. Thankyou. Just have to figure out how to bookmark this thread, for future reffrences. Thanks again, for your help windthrown. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

mtbfarms

I have been using AVgas 100LL and Amsoil saber 100:1 mixed at 65:1 for 5 years now, with great success. A side benefit is the avgas never seems to go bad. Had some sit in a John Deere A for 6 year before it all evaporated out. It still smelled like race gas and started fine till it evaporated out.

windthrown

The problem with AV gas is that it has lead in it. That is what makes leaded gas smell sweet. Lead actually makes things smell and taste better, which is why kids used to eat lead paint chips off of walls. The ancient Romans used to 'sweeten' wine by letting it age in lead vats. Lead is highly toxic stuff. I do not use it because of the close proximity of myself and the exhaust fumes from the saws that I use. Breathing lead fumes in any concentration is not a good thing for your brain or spinal cord. The high octane in AV gas is not needed in 2-stroke engines. Supreme US auto gas runs just fine (91 AKI) in saws which are designed and made to run on mid-grade gas (89 AKI).

Bruce Hopf

They also used lead, for making pipe, for plumbing in houses. I remember, when Dad used to have his plumbing, and heating business, as I was growing up, he would be replacing the lead pipe, with copper, and ABS pipe, in the older houses.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).