top plate angle

hoot gibson

ok . guys i did a search and came up with nothing , i was tought that my top plate angle should be at 30 deg. but i noticed on different chains the angles are different . from 25 to 35 deg. just wonderd why. and what the difference was in cutting with the different angles. for instance what is the advantage or disadvantige of the different angles . thanks in advance . h

newguy18

Differnt chains,differnt angles,round chain should be at 35 degrees.Over all though,the depth guages are what really change the chains performance.

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old schooler

hoot gibson

i just thought since different chains had different angles . one was better for a different wood or cut . thanks h

Bruce Hopf

I've always sharpened my Chains with the Top Angle at 30 Degrees. Most ne Chains, already have a 30 Degree Angle, for the Top Plate Angle, but years ago new chains came with a 35 Degree Angle for the Top Plate.
35 Degrees gives you a wider cut, than 30 Degrees, and uses a little more Power to drive the Chain. I've heard of guys sharpening their Chains at 25 Degrees for the Top Plate.
Bruce.

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Steve Tipton

It varies with hte type of chain, type of timber and type of cutting.
General purpose tree work, go for semi chisel sharpened at 30 degrees.
For very hard or dead hard wood, full chisel at 25 deg.
Ripping and milling, skip tooth chain 5 deg.

Just my opinion.

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hoot gibson

thanks guys . no need to experament . i will stay at 30 . h

(WLL)

the best angle is 35 deg.;that seporates the wood easily. some older chains were sharpend at that angle; they were banned because they have one hell of a kick back. most chains now come with a standard angle of about 10 deg. which lowers kick back and allows the edge to stay sharp longer. my saws walk threw wood

Bruce Hopf

Don't you mean a 30 Degree Angle, instead of a 10 Degree Angle? I have never seen a Chain with a 10 Degree Angle. It also depends on what you are Cutting. If you are cutting Fir, Pine, and other soft woods, than a 35 Degree angle would be better, and helps eliminate Binding, while cutting the Softer Wood types. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Willard Holmen

Hey fellas we could talk about angles all night or write a book on it. For round filed chain or bench ground ,20-30 degree top plate angle is sufficent with chisel chain. Semi chisel can take a little more 25-35. Dry hard wood use lowest number ,green softwood use highest. Keep your depth gauges[rakers] at 25 thousands[inch] ,now this next setting is crucial don't mix this up for a new cutter. When your cutters are filed or ground back to 1/4 or less you can lower your depth gauges to .40 thous. This is called progressive depth gauge lowering. Carlton makes a depth gauge tool called a File-O-Plate. This is the only tool on the market [been around for over 30 yrs] that I know of that can properly progressively lower depth gauges as the cutters are filed back.
I didn't want to give you too much information here and have you accidently file your brand new chain's rakers down to 40 thou. Be careful.
Also don't put any more angle [hook] in the side plate as what you chain originally came with. More hook [lower the file is in the gullet] the thinner the top plate edge ,which will lose its edge faster. More hook also increases kick back energy.

Willard Holmen

About 20 yrs ago most all chisel chain had a factory top plate angle of 35 degrees. They just didn't have as much side plate angle [hook] as they do today. 20 yrs ago you had to file a new chain out of the box to make it cut properly. Now todays chain companies put in more side plate angle and a finer ground edge with less top plate angle at 25-30 degrees.

KevinE

I'm having issues with the Carlton semi chisel on my 7901 keeping an edge in dirty, shitty, dead wood, or when there's white ant activity in the trunk & thus the centre is full of soil. Dunno if I'm just having a bad run of crappy trees, or if I'm doing something wrong? Tree 1. dead wooded an almond with some major dead limbs in it; 2 chains blunted up to useless real quick. Tree 2. having just re-sharpened the chain, I dropped a sizable Melaleuca with evidence of previous activity of white ants in the trunk today (600mm DBH, in fact 600mm diameter at 2.4m) The chain was again useless very quickly I'm bench grinding it at 25 degrees & dropping the rakers using the Stihl guide. Any thoughts guys?

Paul Toivonen

A change of brands may be required, get a quality chain the superior grade steel will last longer.
Nothing will be bullet proof though if you are cutting dirt with it.
As suggested ,check the file angle (5 deg.) I have noticed ;Any more, it knocks the edge off real quick not to mention dangerous.
Another thought, try going the other way with it. 30-35 deg.
It may clean the sand and crap out quicker.
Does it blunt the whole chain or just a few teeth?

KevinE

G'day mate, it blunts the whole chain up, has it pushing out dust instead of chips Happens real quick too. I've been running Carlton on all my saws for a while (except the HT75) & haven't had any probs up till now. Just the opposite, I've been very happy with them. Even this chain has been good up till now. Maybe my grinding wheel is cactus?

Paul Toivonen

OK, maybe try and file sharpen them.
You should be able to tell if the grinder was not up to scratch.
I would look at the angle again.
I have run 35deg. into dirt quite often and it does not seem to blunt the whole chain, only a few teeth.
As your wood is not solid/dry+hard all the way I think more angle will rip thru better.

KevinE

Thanks mate! I might do that (file them) to see what happens. I'll also give 35 degrees a try. I tried it once, years ago, on smaller saws, but it made the chain skate all across the bark until it bit & cut.

Sawchain

Hi KevinE, I do not think your chain is at fault, either you are sharpening incorrectly or what you are cutting has a high silica content, most likely the latter.

Here are some tips on chain.
In Oz with our tendency to cut mostly hardwood and some of it fairly dirty, top plates on semi chisel perform better at between 27.5 ~ 30o the reduced top plate angle increases the edge holding ability, 27.5 is achievable accurately using a quality grinder ( not the cheap Chinese crap ) touching up with a file is simple as you just follow the edge.

As for grinding chains it is not just a matter of putting the chain in, locking the chain vise and going for it, angle into the cutter ( cutting angle ) is critical as is the thickness of the grinding wheel and the side plate shape.
I grind all my chains then touch up with a file when required in the field.

When grinding I also grind to the bottom of the gullet, so I am sharpening and gulleting in one operation, this requires the grinding wheel to be re profiled using the dressing brick to achieve proper side plate shape, I will not say side plate angle as how do you measure the angle of a semi circle ? cutting angle is critical and I find that around 60 ~62o is very good for hardwood, 58 ~ 60o for soft timber, do not confuse this with the top plate angle.


Now as for Carlton chain, I find that it holds an edge better than most, I have also had chains tested for hardness ( and iI have seen a copy of another independent report ) and Carlton is the hardest I have come across, I have 4 brands of chain here and Carlton is my preference.

I have attached a couple pics of what I like to see in the side plate, slightly agressive cutting but that's my preference, also note the depth gauge mod, it's not flat topped, they run a bit smoother.

Cheers .... Laurie

Attached Thumbnails

   

KevinE

Thanks Sawchain, after reading your post & checking out your pics (sensationally sharpened chain there mate!) I reckon my grinding wheel is probably the culprit. I'll change it over & see how I go.

Sawchain

Just make sure the grinding wheel is profiled correctly and is the correct thickness, I imagine you are running 3/8 chain so the wheel thickness should be between 4.5 ~ 4.8mm not 3.2mm

I profile the grinding wheel so I get the shape I want in the side plate as this will affect how agressive it cuts ( or how rough it runs if you have excess hook ) as well as how it self feeds, you also need to lower depth gauges progressively, not at a constant height.

I am attaching some photo's of what you do not want to see in a saw chain, one was factory done, two done by customers, these are not the worst I have seen.

Cheers .... Laurie

Attached Thumbnails

     

KevinE

I put my glasses on to re-sharpen the chain with a file & was somewhat shocked at what I saw! the old, worn 3.2mm grinding wheel had really stuffed up the chain. I took me quite a while with a file to fix it up. So, I kept my glasses on & checked out my other chains too, ditto! I'll be filing again from now on!

Sawchain

You should really learn how to use your grinder with the correct thickness and correctly profiled 4.5mm wheel on the 3/8 chain not 3.2mm, I'm not surprised you are having trouble.

Laurie

KevinE

Point taken Laurie, but I looked everywhere I could think of & buggered if I could find a 4.5mm wheel to fit my grinder. Funny how it only just started to happen though! It was sweet for 15 months or so.

ScottyAFoster

Grinder wheels fail fairly quickly if they are the softer material,harder stones last years.

Tony Knight

G'day Laurie, got that bar no problems thanks mate.

Just checking, I am pretty sure I'm using a 5.2 mm wheel for 3/8 chain?? Not correct??

Thanks

Tony

Sawchain

Hi Tony

You need 4.5 ~ 4.7mm wheel for 3/8, or 5.2 or 5.5mm file, the 5.2 ( 13/64 ) makes it a little more aggressive.
Cheers .... Laurie

Tony Knight

Cheers Laurie, not hard to change as I have a number of wheels. I'll give the 4.5 a go.

Tony

KevinE

Hi Tony, where did you get the 4.5mm wheel mate? I'm filing ATM, but would rather grind.

Tony Knight

G'day Kevin, I measured my next down with calipers this arvo and its actually 4.8mm + or- This one has never been used and came a number of years ago with my Jolley Grinder. The 5.2 I'm changing from I've replaced a couple of times and the most recent I bought from my local Stihl agent. I buy a bit of stuff from Cannings and their web site lists a few wheels. Their comparison chart differs from our discussion so it confuses me a little??
I'll post the link see what you think or maybe Laurie can throw some light?

Link

mmmm, confusing as just looking around oregons chart supports our discussion.

link

Cheers


Tony

KevinE

Thanks for posting that info & links Tony, I'll follow up on a wheel ASAP.

Cheers,

Kevin.

ScottyAFoster

The wheel is the usual problem with all grinders. The more money you spend on wheels the better the quality of the grind. The one thing about all grinders is the fact they all need to be readjust every so often to keep them true and grinding true to the angle needed.

Sherry777

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